By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[PositiveLight]

Y'all something just hit me like a ton of bricks. Remember when during the Dr. Phil episodes (not sure which one but I want to think episode 1) Burke made that very odd comment about not remembering her hair being that long? Why does that now seem to make sense to me when we are discussing the hair being caught in the knot? Do you think that maybe in that one moment, that one comment, he remembered what she looked like on the floor with that cord around her neck? That he possibly made a slight slip with that comment?

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[johnjay]

Y'all something just hit me like a ton of bricks. Remember when during the Dr. Phil episodes (not sure which one but I want to think episode 1) Burke made that very odd comment about not remembering her hair being that long? Why does that now seem to make sense to me when we are discussing the hair being caught in the knot? Do you think that maybe in that one moment, that one comment, he remembered what she looked like on the floor with that cord around her neck? That he possibly made a slight slip with that comment?

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It sounds like Burke doesn't have a picture of JonBenet in his home.

 

[Vail]

I don't know half as much about this case as most of you but after seeing the documentary and watching Burke's interviews it is beyond doubt for me. I was surprised to see so many of you think so too. It just makes the most sense looking at it psychologically - he was probably totally envious of the attention she got, and his view of her as a sister who he should love and protect warped and degraded by the pageantry (IMO)
ETA also the paintbrush garrot with the boyscout knot

 

[BeachSky]

In my own opinion I feel Burke did it with intent to severely harm JBR. I think his parents covered for him.
I don't think he has ever showed remorse or guilt or sadness. He, above all other children that cause an accidental death, deserved to be punished.
Even though he's been able to "go on with his life". JBR doesn't have that chance.
I think laws need to be changed. I feel that the law that protected him should be lowered to maybe 6. If the law is in place, the DA would have the option to prosecute if the situation required it. The DA can make the judgment in regard to intent.
Kids are maturing so much faster now. The law needs to be changed so this type of crime doesn't happen again.

spot on. All of it. JMO

 

[Karinna]

People need to stop calling this a garotte. It was a makeshift ligature that did the job because JonBenet was already unconscious and couldn't stop if from being applied and tightened. There were no resistance marks on her neck. She was choked to death with a MAKESHIFT contraption that was in no way "sophisticated," that was just diversion.

garrote
an instrument, usually a cord or wire with handles attached at the ends, used for strangling a victim.


ligature
the act of binding or tying up


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/garotte?s=t

I personally don't see anything wrong with using either word, although garotte seems more descriptive in the type of instrument, IMO.

 

[Karinna]

Hold up! I didn't say he'd USED one before. I'm just saying he would have known about them.

I said "Maybe". And also placed a question mark after the first sentence.

 

[Annapurna]

garrote
an instrument, usually a cord or wire with handles attached at the ends, used for strangling a victim.


ligature
the act of binding or tying up


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/garotte?s=t

I personally don't see anything wrong with using either word, although garotte seems more descriptive in the type of instrument, IMO.

The problem with calling it a garrote is that word is descriptive of a specific weapon and suggests how it was used. The ligature was not used in the same way a garrote is. A garrote has 2 handles and is not tied, just looped. Then the handles are pulled in opposite directions which tightens the loop around someone's neck. The device found on JB wouldn't function that way. I know we've all gone over this before and now we seem to be in two camps: those who think vocabulary matters and those who don't. So we can all agree to disagree if we want.

 

[Karinna]

I really don't see BR as the one to use a garotte on JBR. If a 9 year old lashes out in anger or jealousy and delivers a blow across the head to his younger sibling enough to knock her unconcious and then has to prod her with a toy railway track to try and wake her up, i would imagine by that stage after he couldn't wake her up he would somewhat be freaking out some by then, knowing he will be in big trouble with his parents too if he seriously hurt his sister. And then what did he do, think to check her pulse to see if she was still breathing? and then decides to strangle her just in case, to make sure she is dead, and think oh yeah i will just do that to make it look like a sexual deviant came broke in to the house and did it all? I could imagine him lashing out in anger but not the rest. Hardly likely IMO.

 

[Karinna]

The problem with calling it a garrote is that word is descriptive of a specific weapon and suggests how it was used. The ligature was not used in the same way a garrote is. A garrote has 2 handles and is not tied, just looped. Then the handles are pulled in opposite directions which tightens the loop around someone's neck. The device found on JB wouldn't function that way. I know we've all gone over this before and now we seem to be in two camps: those who think vocabulary matters and those who don't. So we can all agree to disagree if we want.

Of course. I just don't see it as an issue when we all know what we are talking about anyway. But i just posted up what i found because i was interested in knowing if there was really any difference between them both. And there are also other meanings to both words.

 

[johnjay]

garrote
an instrument, usually a cord or wire with handles attached at the ends, used for strangling a victim.


ligature
the act of binding or tying up


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/garotte?s=t

I personally don't see anything wrong with using either word, although garotte seems more descriptive in the type of instrument, IMO.

While I think one could call it a garrote and be technically correct, calling it a garrote tends to give an air of mystery to the device that makes one think a 10 year old wouldn't be likely to make it. It's really just a leash, a slip knot on the end of a cord at one end and a cord wrapped around a stick on the other end. It's nothing fancy, and it's a poor way to use a cord to strangle someone - not that I'm an expert in such thinks (wink).

 

[Annapurna]

While I think one could call it a garrote and be technically correct, calling it a garrote tends to give an air of mystery to the device that makes one think a 10 year old wouldn't be likely to make it. It's really just a leash, a slip knot on the end of a cord at one end and a cord wrapped around a stick on the other end. It's nothing fancy, and it's a poor way to use a cord to strangle someone - not that I'm an expert in such thinks (wink).

I agree 100%. I think that's why posters like otg and I are a little pedantic about the word choice. It's not so much that the word itself is incorrect, it's simply the connotations of the word. I agree fully with your assessment that it gives an "air of mystery" and i believe it contributes to people not being able to believe BDI.

And who knows johnjay, by the end of all this you just might be an expert!

 

[kanzz]

While I think one could call it a garrote and be technically correct, calling it a garrote tends to give an air of mystery to the device that makes one think a 10 year old wouldn't be likely to make it. It's really just a leash, a slip knot on the end of a cord at one end and a cord wrapped around a stick on the other end. It's nothing fancy, and it's a poor way to use a cord to strangle someone - not that I'm an expert in such thinks (wink).

Agree. Totally. And thank you. Because I've been guilty of calling it the G-word. So, do we call it a leash? a noose? Now I'm not sure of the proper term. :thinking:

And, while we're on the subject, I do have a question. What's the term for that which was used in this device? I've seen it called "cord", but I wanted to search through WS to see if the topic had been discussed about where it might have originated, and wanted to make sure I have the right word. Maybe there's a thread. Oh my.. I have so much catching up to do after years of being away due to my work.

 

[Ambitioned]

I have five brothers and they were all in the Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts. It really does look like the commando ropes or toggle ropes the boy scouts used. I would never call it a garrote but some type of ligature device.

 

[Mee]

At the time, the brother may have been spoiled, jealous, immature, bottled-up, and strung out. During a sibling fight he struck her in a moment of rage which may not be an accident per se (moreover he seems to lack remorse)...but I would like to think if he had to do it over he would not do it.

The strangling was deliberate and was possibly done by a parent/father, albeit they could have justified it in their mind as a mercy.

I don't know who sexually abused the poor little girl, and would imagine it was an adult but I don't know who it may have been.

It's hard to wrap my mind anyone abusing and strangling a beloved child (vs the hospital, which is where people go when they actually have accidents), but the family's behavior is really odd all around.

EDIT:

 

[Karinna]

While I think one could call it a garrote and be technically correct, calling it a garrote tends to give an air of mystery to the device that makes one think a 10 year old wouldn't be likely to make it. It's really just a leash, a slip knot on the end of a cord at one end and a cord wrapped around a stick on the other end. It's nothing fancy, and it's a poor way to use a cord to strangle someone - not that I'm an expert in such thinks (wink).

I doubt very much myself that BR strangled his sister after knocking her out with a weapon. Whoever did that was trying to set the stage for a sick sexual pervert intruder that did that to JBR and that is what it was meant to show IMO, the strangling, the redressing & sexual interference to JBR. IMO.

 

[Karinna]

Agree. Totally. And thank you. Because I've been guilty of calling it the G-word. So, do we call it a leash? a noose? Now I'm not sure of the proper term. :thinking:

And, while we're on the subject, I do have a question. What's the term for that which was used in this device? I've seen it called "cord", but I wanted to search through WS to see if the topic had been discussed about where it might have originated, and wanted to make sure I have the right word. Maybe there's a thread. Oh my.. I have so much catching up to do after years of being away due to my work.

I think call it whatever you want, because both words have been used in regard to the case online. Don't think there is a right or wrong with it is there? The net result was asphyxiation killed JBR. She possibly would have died from the head injury alone though without the strangulation.

 

[Karinna]

A torniquet to me is used in medical scenarios. When a nurse takes a person's blood for testing a torniquet is around the upper arm & used to do that. It is also used to stem blood flow in a bleeding injury, or a torniquet is applied in snakebites etc.

 

[Heymom]

Agree. Totally. And thank you. Because I've been guilty of calling it the G-word. So, do we call it a leash? a noose? Now I'm not sure of the proper term. :thinking:

And, while we're on the subject, I do have a question. What's the term for that which was used in this device? I've seen it called "cord", but I wanted to search through WS to see if the topic had been discussed about where it might have originated, and wanted to make sure I have the right word. Maybe there's a thread. Oh my.. I have so much catching up to do after years of being away due to my work.

Call it a "ligature," because that is what it was. Also, the material was nylon cord, so that is accurate. The image of a "garrotte" makes the improvised device seem more exotic and professional than it was. That has worked to BR's advantage because most members of the public believed that this was a "sophisticated" device, when really, it was bit of cording with a handle tied onto the end of it.

 

[Heymom]

I doubt very much myself that BR strangled his sister after knocking her out with a weapon. Whoever did that was trying to set the stage for a sick sexual pervert intruder that did that to JBR and that is what it was meant to show IMO, the strangling, the redressing & sexual interference to JBR. IMO.

You can doubt it all you want. But why would the parents not call for an ambulance, if they had come across an unconscious JBR with no bleeding from her scalp, maybe some swelling, but not knowing how bad her injury was? I'm not buying that. I believe PR found her already dead and they had to come up with the random letter to try and explain what had happened. They then followed the "don'ts" of the ransom letter as if to achieve the "beheading" of JonBenet, which, if it worked, they could claim they were so upset that they didn't know or realize what they were doing.

There are probably parents so evil that they could murder a child and rationalize it, but I don't believe that JR or PR is that evil. I think they did what they did to save Burke, since JonBenet was already gone. They made that decision so they didn't lose their remaining child.

 

[johnjay]

Agree. Totally. And thank you. Because I've been guilty of calling it the G-word. So, do we call it a leash? a noose? Now I'm not sure of the proper term. :thinking:

The autopsy report uses the term "ligature" - you can't go wrong using that.

And, while we're on the subject, I do have a question. What's the term for that which was used in this device? I've seen it called "cord", but I wanted to search through WS to see if the topic had been discussed about where it might have originated, and wanted to make sure I have the right word. Maybe there's a thread. Oh my.. I have so much catching up to do after years of being away due to my work.

The autopsy report calls it a "white cord".