By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[Duchess518]

Forgive me again I'm new here!

There is a photo I have scene amongst the crime scene photos of a blood stained mattress. Two people are holding it up like it was under the mattress (or it was flipped). Has anyone seen this? Is it really from the JBR crime scene? There was no blood loss from her?

 

[Karinna]

Well we are going to have to "agree to disagree" on this one. The only scenario that makes sense is that JonBenet had already passed, and from the scene in front of them, they believed that Burke would be either arrested or institutionalized for her murder, so they started the cover-up. The head wound wasn't obvious - the ME thought the ligature was the only cause of death until he peeled her scalp back and saw the giant crack and hole in her skull. I think her parents didn't know how bad it was, but in any case she was already gone when they found her.

Do I understand you - are you saying you think the ransom letter was written *before* JonBenet was even killed?

Disagree about what? No i'm not saying the RN was written before JBR was strangled. I was actually thinking it could of been written after the fact, as part of the staging. But i don't really know when it was written.

 

[Ambitioned]

Forgive me again I'm new here!

There is a photo I have scene amongst the crime scene photos of a blood stained mattress. Two people are holding it up like it was under the mattress (or it was flipped). Has anyone seen this? Is it really from the JBR crime scene? There was no blood loss from her?

That was on Pinterest page of crime scene photos. I think it was from the Julie Schenecker crime.

 

[PositiveLight]

Could the pictures referred to be of the flashlight in a different location maybe?

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[TeaTime]

This is the first time I've seen anything about this. Just wow. It has me wondering so many things. The way the question was phrased to PR, it would lead a person to believe it was a photo from before Christmas.. but maybe not.

16 TOM HANEY: Well, this photo 12OTET8 was on
17 your roll of file in your camera. And on the
18 same roll is the next photo, a Christmas morning
19 photo of the kids.

Am I right to assume that we never found out what those pictures were?

IIRC this is when PR identified a plastic trash bag as the one she was packing on the morning of 12/26 when she found the note and then just dropped it right there. The detective showed her a photo of the same trash bag taken on Christmas morning and she stumbled around saying "I just don't know why anyone would take a picture like that. I don't remember anyone taking a photo of that."

 

[kanzz]

It seems that my question about what to call the device used for strangulation opened up quite a conversation, and I'm glad it did. Thanks to all who played along!

I knew it was not a true garotte. That device typically has two handles. This thing lacked any sophistication whatsoever. It appears to be an attempt at a cleat hitch, sometimes used to tie off a boat to a dock. The perp could've done this just by swiveling his hand in a figure 8 while the cord was stationery. I won't give more credit to this perp than he deserves by calling this the G-word again. It's an easy tie-off he could have learned practically anywhere.

 

[kanzz]

IIRC this is when PR identified a plastic trash bag as the one she was packing on the morning of 12/26 when she found the note and then just dropped it right there. The detective showed her a photo of the same trash bag taken on Christmas morning and she stumbled around saying "I just don't know why anyone would take a picture like that. I don't remember anyone taking a photo of that."

Thank you, TeaTime. When I saw that exchange on ACR, I was reading too much into it.

 

[Karinna]

It seems that my question about what to call the device used for strangulation opened up quite a conversation, and I'm glad it did. Thanks to all who played along!

I knew it was not a true garotte. That device typically has two handles. This thing lacked any sophistication whatsoever. It appears to be an attempt at a cleat hitch, sometimes used to tie off a boat to a dock. The perp could've done this just by swiveling his hand in a figure 8 while the cord was stationery. I won't give more credit to this perp than he deserves by calling this the G-word again. It's an easy tie-off he could have learned practically anywhere.

YW, because i'm one of the ones that "played along". I'm not really sure what your point is, but who cares what anyone calls the device that brutally snuffed out the life of an innocent child. Why is it even important? And i certainly don't think anything we could say in regard to the perp. matters, because that would mean the monster has a conscience, which i for one don't think that perp. has. Maybe i just don't get it!

 

[Bey]

Hello, I'm new been lurking for a while but finally joined after reading this as - so far - I have not seen anyone else post my theory..... I have always been on the RDI side, but didn't put too much thought into who exactly

So, I agree so far that JBR was put to bed already asleep, woke up, went looking for BR (or even just for something to eat) and ate the pineapple with him. Then, I think they were playing in the train room. BR put the cord around her neck as part of a game. He has whittled the paintbrush into a handle for her "leash". Now, I think BR has at this point been abused by someone (highly suspicious of older bro...) who is either also abusing JBR, or BR is just passing on his problem. This time, while they are playing a game involving her being tried at the neck, he jabs at her with his finger, leaving woodfibres from the paintbrush that were on his hands. She yelps, and in his panic from the noise, he hits her on the head. She falls to the floor and he runs from the room. JBR begins to fit from her head injury, however now the cord is tightening around her neck due to the movement. Over time, her movement tightens to cord enough that she is strangled by it, causing her death. PR is still packing and happens upon JBRs empty room, this is potentially (if it happened) where the "where's my baby" comes from. She finds BR who is shaken, and then she finds JBR and screams. This wakes JR, then he does the cleaning up/redressing while she writes the note.

 

[johnjay]

Hello, I'm new been lurking for a while but finally joined after reading this as - so far - I have not seen anyone else post my theory..... I have always been on the RDI side, but didn't put too much thought into who exactly

So, I agree so far that JBR was put to bed already asleep, woke up, went looking for BR (or even just for something to eat) and ate the pineapple with him. Then, I think they were playing in the train room. BR put the cord around her neck as part of a game. He has whittled the paintbrush into a handle for her "leash". Now, I think BR has at this point been abused by someone (highly suspicious of older bro...) who is either also abusing JBR, or BR is just passing on his problem. This time, while they are playing a game involving her being tried at the neck, he jabs at her with his finger, leaving woodfibres from the paintbrush that were on his hands. She yelps, and in his panic from the noise, he hits her on the head. She falls to the floor and he runs from the room. JBR begins to fit from her head injury, however now the cord is tightening around her neck due to the movement. Over time, her movement tightens to cord enough that she is strangled by it, causing her death. PR is still packing and happens upon JBRs empty room, this is potentially (if it happened) where the "where's my baby" comes from. She finds BR who is shaken, and then she finds JBR and screams. This wakes JR, then he does the cleaning up/redressing while she writes the note.

Playing in the train room with old toys seems to me like an odd thing to do on Christmas day when new toys are usually still by the tree.

 

[PositiveLight]

Hello, I'm new been lurking for a while but finally joined after reading this as - so far - I have not seen anyone else post my theory..... I have always been on the RDI side, but didn't put too much thought into who exactly

So, I agree so far that JBR was put to bed already asleep, woke up, went looking for BR (or even just for something to eat) and ate the pineapple with him. Then, I think they were playing in the train room. BR put the cord around her neck as part of a game. He has whittled the paintbrush into a handle for her "leash". Now, I think BR has at this point been abused by someone (highly suspicious of older bro...) who is either also abusing JBR, or BR is just passing on his problem. This time, while they are playing a game involving her being tried at the neck, he jabs at her with his finger, leaving woodfibres from the paintbrush that were on his hands. She yelps, and in his panic from the noise, he hits her on the head. She falls to the floor and he runs from the room. JBR begins to fit from her head injury, however now the cord is tightening around her neck due to the movement. Over time, her movement tightens to cord enough that she is strangled by it, causing her death. PR is still packing and happens upon JBRs empty room, this is potentially (if it happened) where the "where's my baby" comes from. She finds BR who is shaken, and then she finds JBR and screams. This wakes JR, then he does the cleaning up/redressing while she writes the note.

Welcome!!! 😃 This is a good possibility!
I wonder if this behavior had recently become something that JBR was use to. Maybe they often played similar to this and maybe occasionally BR was a sexually abusing her. She may have kept quiet because she loved her big brother and didn't want him to get in trouble. I feel her love for him was her downfall honestly. She trusted him and in his mind she was just an object in the way of his parents attention. I've said many times that I felt it was intentional. Mainly because he never showed remorse and still doesn't. If it had truly been an accident, I feel her would have at least been sad. JMOO though.

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[kanzz]

YW, because i'm one of the ones that "played along". I'm not really sure what your point is, but who cares what anyone calls the device that brutally snuffed out the life of an innocent child. Why is it even important? And i certainly don't think anything we could say in regard to the perp. matters, because that would mean the monster has a conscience, which i for one don't think that perp. has. Maybe i just don't get it!

My initial point in this discussion was only to further explore what johnjay pasted about the terminology, (which was this):

While I think one could call it a garrote and be technically correct, calling it a garrote tends to give an air of mystery to the device that makes one think a 10 year old wouldn't be likely to make it. It's really just a leash, a slip knot on the end of a cord at one end and a cord wrapped around a stick on the other end. It's nothing fancy, and it's a poor way to use a cord to strangle someone - not that I'm an expert in such thinks (wink).

And then, as I said, to search the archives "to see if the topic had been discussed about where it might have originated".

I like to ask questions so I can do my own research here on WS so I don't post something that someone else sees as inane and admonish me (as I've seen people do) in this manner: "This has been discussed ad nauseum." So, I did some exploring. And found a lot of useful info. Like the pics of the Stansport utility cord pseudo-device someone made. And I certainly appreciate the discussion that my question brought about.

I agree that Monster probably doesn't have a conscience. I also agree with those who say it doesn't require anything it the way of skill or sophistication to fashion this device - and that BR could easily have done it. For some, the terminology is important; for others, not so much. I'm OK with that. Maybe I sounded a bit to glib when I thanked people for playing along. It wasn't meant to be offensive. I was just happy to see my question get so much interaction.

 

[PositiveLight]

My initial point in this discussion was only to further explore what johnjay pasted about the terminology, (which was this):

And then, as I said, to search the archives "to see if the topic had been discussed about where it might have originated".

I like to ask questions so I can do my own research here on WS so I don't post something that someone else sees as inane and admonish me (as I've seen people do) in this manner: "This has been discussed ad nauseum." So, I did some exploring. And found a lot of useful info. Like the pics of the Stansport utility cord pseudo-device someone made. And I certainly appreciate the discussion that my question brought about.

I agree that Monster probably doesn't have a conscience. I also agree with those who say it doesn't require anything it the way of skill or sophistication to fashion this device - and that BR could easily have done it. For some, the terminology is important; for others, not so much. I'm OK with that. Maybe I sounded a bit to glib when I thanked people for playing along. It wasn't meant to be offensive. I was just happy to see my question get so much interaction.

I, like you, love to research things. I have learned so much from this forum too. I'm still learning new things daily in just this case alone! There's so much evidence to sort through.
I think the reason most get offended by the garrote usage (I'm guilty of using it myself and will probably now refer to it as a ligature) because Smitz I feel wanted to believe the Ramsey's so much he crippled the investigation. By calling it a garrote, it made it sound "foreign" (foreign faction). So it played into the intruder theory. I don't mind the discussion honestly if we are being educated on the case. Until I found this site I felt it was a garrote and probably only dad or mom could inflict that injury. Knowing now how it really functioned changes things drastically in my opinion. It opens up the possibility that Burke could have easily inflicted the ligature.

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[Annapurna]

I, like you, love to research things. I have learned so much from this forum too. I'm still learning new things daily in just this case alone! There's so much evidence to sort through.
I think the reason most get offended by the garrote usage (I'm guilty of using it myself and will probably now refer to it as a ligature) because Smitz I feel wanted to believe the Ramsey's so much he crippled the investigation. By calling it a garrote, it made it sound "foreign" (foreign faction). So it played into the intruder theory. I don't mind the discussion honestly if we are being educated on the case. Until I found this site I felt it was a garrote and probably only dad or mom could inflict that injury. Knowing now how it really functioned changes things drastically in my opinion. It opens up the possibility that Burke could have easily inflicted the ligature.

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I think you hit the nail on the head PL!

I'm guilty of correcting people when they use the "g-word" (lol) and it's for the reasons you've mentioned. In typical Smit fashion he referred multiple times to the knots being "sophisticated", "complex" etc. Since we know it is none of those things, it can be a tad exasperating when people suggest that it was. Plus the word just sounds "exotic". I doubt many had heard of a garrote in the mid 90's.

I also would like to say that I have learned SO MUCH from this forum and this case. Even though I've been on the forum for a while and read a massive amount on this case, I'm still learning more every day! About every subject too: medical knowledge, law and law enforcement, psychology, etc, etc. Thanks everyone!!!

 

[otg]

(bbm)

In what universe do parents tolerate that kind of behavior - whittling around the house that is? And why would they trust such a child to own a knife?

Whittler's mother?

 

[Heymom]

Hello, I'm new been lurking for a while but finally joined after reading this as - so far - I have not seen anyone else post my theory..... I have always been on the RDI side, but didn't put too much thought into who exactly

So, I agree so far that JBR was put to bed already asleep, woke up, went looking for BR (or even just for something to eat) and ate the pineapple with him. Then, I think they were playing in the train room. BR put the cord around her neck as part of a game. He has whittled the paintbrush into a handle for her "leash". Now, I think BR has at this point been abused by someone (highly suspicious of older bro...) who is either also abusing JBR, or BR is just passing on his problem. This time, while they are playing a game involving her being tried at the neck, he jabs at her with his finger, leaving woodfibres from the paintbrush that were on his hands. She yelps, and in his panic from the noise, he hits her on the head. She falls to the floor and he runs from the room. JBR begins to fit from her head injury, however now the cord is tightening around her neck due to the movement. Over time, her movement tightens to cord enough that she is strangled by it, causing her death. PR is still packing and happens upon JBRs empty room, this is potentially (if it happened) where the "where's my baby" comes from. She finds BR who is shaken, and then she finds JBR and screams. This wakes JR, then he does the cleaning up/redressing while she writes the note.

Cords don't tighten by themselves, even if someone is having a seizure. Someone choked her to death, sorry.

 

[Heymom]

(bbm)
Whittler's mother?

I've always loved that painting. It's beautiful.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

(bbm)
Whittler's mother?

Good one!

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[PositiveLight]

(bbm)
Whittler's mother?

*snorts!* 😂 Good one!

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[johnjay]

(bbm)
Whittler's mother?

Hmmm. Whittler's Mother was framed like Whistlers Mother???