CA - ‘Uncharted territory’ as Lake Oroville rises toward damaged dam

[CARIIS]

This emergency op is going too fast for me. What a sheer challenge for the boots on the ground!

The size of the sinkhole is growing by leaps and bounds and will continue to do so with the force of the water pressure pounding it every second.

Officials are attempting to control erosion below the spillway with the bags of rock. Surely they are not attempting to fill a sink hole with bags of rocks. The water/erosion has now wiped out the road to the spillway. Isn't that the road that is now missing? First, it was the parking lot that fell into the water, then it was the road. This is potentially a highly dangerous situation and officials know it. If the compromised spillway blows, the lake releases her contents.

I reside near a large dam built in the early sixties. When the reservoir (lake) is too high, the spillway is opened to release water from the lake into the river. Too much water released causes the river to flood over its boundaries, thus, low lying areas can become flooded south of the spillway. Generally, residents in those areas pay additional insurance premiums due to the possibility of flooding. We have a special water commissioner and board that oversees the reservoir and her spillway. Many homes on her North and Eastern shores are constructed on Section 13 land; therefore, those homeowners pay annual fees on the property but they never will own the land their mansion style homes were built on. The money paid into Section 13 goes to fund public education.

This SS image was of Day Two. The damage doubled in size within 24 hours, or overnight.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/02...d-with-high-releases-now-about-4-feet-to-top/

IMO the media keeps confusing two terms. "Controlled spillway" and "Emergency Spillway". The controlled one has gates that can be opened and closed from the control room .

The "emergency" one is a wall!!

It is my understanding that they have thus far done nothing with the spillway. The bags of boulders are for the emergency thing not the controlled spillway that has holes.

There is no way for them to put rocks under the slide thing - it has been on and throwing water around 45 feet in the air.

The boulders are for where it finally stopped overtopping - the emergency thing is basically mud! The giant craters in front of the mud emergency one have to be eroding the emergency mud thing!

He said last night that the sinkhole in the controlled spillway has gotten to big to toss in some rocks!!

IMO they know it is going to overtop again in several days - so might as well throw a bunch of boulders in the holes (emergency one not the slide thing) and hope the controlled one can keep going at the speed they have it at moo

If, for whatever reason, they have to reduce loads on the slide one the whole game changes moo

If we watch what they did yesterday to the slide thing - when the sinkhole happened - they pulled way back. They stopped it to check it out. While it was stopped they freaked - it was going to go past the 301 and go there.

SO there only choice at the point was to open the slide one at 100,000, unsure what would happen - but it was clear to them (inflow) that if they did not turn on the slide thing - it's history!!!


Links earlier !

moo

Cumulative coming in the next week is 9 inches ( linked earlier) imo the hydrologic engineers know where they are --evacuate and hope moo

That Shasta resrouvior is gonna be a repeat of this mess -- its been at 96 for last 48 hours- and their spillways are "open" - so they are not getting Shasta down - they are holding it 4 feet from topping over - with the coming rain - that is a problem moo

Have no idea if Shasta - when it gets to 100 if overtops the actual dam itself

[h=1]Shasta Dam sees biggest release in decades as reservoir nears capacity (100 is top it is at 96)[/h]
Published 1:01 pm, Monday, February 13, 2017

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Shasta-Dam-sees-biggest-release-in-decades-as-10929327.php

 

[DeDee]

Quote Originally Posted by DeDee View Post
This emergency op is going too fast for me. What a sheer challenge for the boots on the ground!

The size of the sinkhole is growing by leaps and bounds and will continue to do so with the force of the water pressure pounding it every second.

Officials are attempting to control erosion below the spillway with the bags of rock. Surely they are not attempting to fill a sink hole with bags of rocks. The water/erosion has now wiped out the road to the spillway. Isn't that the road that is now missing? First, it was the parking lot that fell into the water, then it was the road. This is potentially a highly dangerous situation and officials know it. If the compromised spillway blows, the lake releases her contents

.

It is my understanding that they have thus far done nothing with the spillway. The bags of boulders are for the emergency thing not the controlled spillway that has holes.

There is no way for them to put rocks under the slide thing - it has been on and throwing water around 45 feet in the air.

The boulders are for where it finally stopped overtopping - the emergency thing is basically mud! The giant craters in front of the mud emergency one have to be eroding the emergency mud thing!

He said last night that the sinkhole in the controlled spillway has gotten to big to toss in some rocks!!



IMO they know it is going to overtop again in several days - so might as well throw a bunch of boulders in the holes (emergency one not the slide thing) and hope the controlled one can keep going at the speed they have it at moo

IMO the media keeps confusing two terms. "Controlled spillway" and "Emergency Spillway". The controlled one has gates that can be opened and closed from the control room .

The "emergency" one is a wall!!

Links earlier !

Officials are attempting to control erosion below the spillway with the bags of rock.

My apologies for the usage of the word "below" did not mean "under" the concrete spillway but rather it meant that land located below the spillway as being directional as in the rushing water is flowing South toward Sacramento [below or South of the spillway].

All of the work being done now with the rocks is on the Auxiliary (emergency) spillway erosion conditions. This is a fine mess. I understand they have qualified experts but nature has its own way of operating that man cannot always control.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Has anyone heard if a presser is supposedly coming? What time EST?

The awesome helicopter guy got all fueled up and is back live !!

Truly do not understand how an "angle" of this story is full hotels.

Worse, people interviewed were shocked at how hard it was to find a room ???????????????

I remember when we had our big fires in So Cal 2016, hotel rooms for 40 - 60 miles around the evacuation areas were full. My sister was having surgery and I met a man in the waiting room He told me his son was being discharged home and they couldn't find a hotel room for him to recover from surgery. Sometimes finding affordable accommodations is very difficult. In the end, the gentleman found a friend of his adult son who was willing to give up his own bed for the son to recover. Gotta love good friends!

 

[DeDee]

I understand the valid point that the Auxiliary spillway is merely a "wall". The depths of the Lake made the water overflow from the emergency "wall" and that did severe erosion damage. When they jacked up the opening of the gates of the damaged main spillway, it allowed for the "emergency wall" to run dry so the area could be checked for erosion damages. By opening the gates wide like that, officials allowed for more erosion to occur around the "slide".

I trust the equipment of the main spillway operations to function properly without fail. Sure, the gates are under a lot of pressure from holding the water back. Sometimes equipment made back in the 60's is better than what is available now.

 

[SophieRose]

What has been going on over there is called
ARkStorm


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARkStorm

I don't think we've reached that level yet. But they are asking for federal disaster aid for the dam area. Do you think Trump will help out the red-headed stepchild state?

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think we've reached that level yet. But they are asking for federal disaster aid for the dam area. Do you think Trump will help out the red-headed stepchild state?

Have not a heard a peep have we ??

 

[CARIIS]

No idea what it means but for the last 11 hours they have not given an inflow number.

But this last hour they did (wonder if it is the snowmelt starting to make it in?) but now it is at 40000 in and 90000 out- so if the no inflow really meant there was none then in the last hour they have lost 50% of the war??

Dam Pedro is at 99%.

Here are the dams in Calif

This one is 1700 feet wide!

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/products/rescond.pdf

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?ORO

I feel so sorry for these people - the presser today really sounded like they are gonna have to wait for the next round of storms which is like ending a week from Thurs

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think we've reached that level yet. But they are asking for federal disaster aid for the dam area. Do you think Trump will help out the red-headed stepchild state?

California's U.S. senators are calling on President Donald Trump to approve a disaster declaration for the state in response to damage from recent storms.
Sens. Dianne Feinstein and Kamala Harris wrote in a letter Monday that the situation is especially dire downriver from Oroville Dam, where damage has threatened flooding and forced nearly 200,000 people to evacuate.
The senators are asking the president to provide $162.3 million in disaster assistance that California requested.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...l-moves-patients-2nd-floor.html#ixzz4YcZX0VZ0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

A spokeswoman for the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission says a 50-year license for Oroville Dam, the nation's tallest, expired in January 2007

(They are doing all this BS with the nuclear power plants too!)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...l-moves-patients-2nd-floor.html#ixzz4YcZibrI7
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[KaaBoom]

I understand the valid point that the Auxiliary spillway is merely a "wall". The depths of the Lake made the water overflow from the emergency "wall" and that did severe erosion damage. When they jacked up the opening of the gates of the damaged main spillway, it allowed for the "emergency wall" to run dry so the area could be checked for erosion damages. By opening the gates wide like that, officials allowed for more erosion to occur around the "slide".

I trust the equipment of the main spillway operations to function properly without fail. Sure, the gates are under a lot of pressure from holding the water back. Sometimes equipment made back in the 60's is better than what is available now.

I had to do a facepalm every time I heard the reporters say, that a "decision" was made to use the auxiliary spillway. They didn't decide to use it. The water went over the top of it. They should have never allowed that to happen in the first place. They should have just opened up the main spillway wide to begin with. I think they were just trying to prevent additional damage to the spillway. Which is ridiculous. That spillway is already damaged. They are going to have to replace that anyway.

Right now they need to keep the spillway open, until the water level in the lake drops down below the spillway. Because the current situation is extremely dangerous.

 

[CARIIS]

I had to do a facepalm every time I heard the reporters say, that a "decision" was made to use the auxiliary spillway. They didn't decide to use it. The water went over the top of it. They should have never allowed that to happen in the first place. They should have just opened up the main spillway wide to begin with. I think they were just trying to prevent additional damage to the spillway. Which is ridiculous. That spillway is already damaged. They are going to have to replace that anyway.

Right now they need to keep the spillway open, until the water level in the lake drops down below the spillway. Because the current situation is extremely dangerous.

My dear

I am afraid your name may be what the world is going be hearing in the next week.

Gosh between crumbling dams and pilots what is happening??

 

[SophieRose]

No idea what it means but for the last 11 hours they have not given an inflow number.

But this last hour they did (wonder if it is the snowmelt starting to make it in?) but now it is at 40000 in and 90000 out- so if the no inflow really meant there was none then in the last hour they have lost 50% of the war??

Dam Pedro is at 99%.

Here are the dams in Calif

This one is 1700 feet wide!

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/products/rescond.pdf

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?ORO

I feel so sorry for these people - the presser today really sounded like they are gonna have to wait for the next round of storms which is like ending a week from Thurs

In 1997, the Don Pedro had to release water because of snowmelt from a Pineapple Express storm. Parts of Modesto, 50 miles downstream, got flooded. I went to see it the weekend after it happened. We couldn't find it at first and were looking for a bathroom. I found these port-a-bathrooms so used it quickly, of course, came out and asked a man on the street "Where's the flood area?" He said "You're in it." Turns out the river was one block away and they were just letting the people back into the area to check their homes (hence the port-a-potty.) The water levels were to the roof on the houses. I couldn't see how that could happen and wish they had video of it. There were cows (Modesto pop nearly 200k is a diary town or was) standing on mounds of dirt with water around them everywhere. Near the highway was a boat store which once was dry, now the boats were floating in water. I still look for that boat store when I'm in that area, no longer there, still have to look though every time.

[video=youtube;94sAz3gZciQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sAz3gZciQ[/video]

 

[KaaBoom]

My dear

I am afraid your name may be what the world is going be hearing in the next week.

Gosh between crumbling dams and pilots what is happening??

I don't think that will happen, as long as they get the water level down. If they decide to cut the water flow again for any reason, then anything is possible.

Honestly at this point, I think their operating permit should be revoked. They should be required to drain the lake completely. Then inspect the entire dam, and repair and modernize it, before being granted a new operating permit. Unfortunately I don't think that will happen, as it would cause too much hardship.

 

[CARIIS]

[FONT=&quot]In 2013, the American Society of Civil Engineers conducted its most recent quadrennial survey of the nation’s infrastructure, and it gave the U.S. a ‘D’ for maintenance of dams.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]More existing dams in the U.S. were built in the 1960s, like the Oroville Dam, than in any other decade. The combination of aging dams, bad maintenance, and spotty inspections means that what looks like a trickle of worry out of Lake Oroville and over the dam’s fragile spillways could turn into a gusher of danger around the U.S. in the coming years.

[/FONT]In one part, helicopters are dropping sacks of rocks into a hole created by erosion. Dump trucks are also bringing in more rocks to patch other spots and create slurry to solidify it.
They're also building a gravel road out to where the helicopters are dropping the rocks. Then the trucks can drive out and create a slurry to deposit in the hole and solidify it.
"You're putting rocks in a hole. Then you're putting slurry in to solidify it," he said. "When water comes down, it will hit that patch and roll off."



[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2017/02/how-did-the-oroville-dam-get-so-bad/516429/

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think that will happen, as long as they get the water level down. If they decide to cut the water flow for any reason, then anything is possible.

Hi KaaBOOM!

I just can't comprehend how they are not gonna be able to avoid slowing the spillway down over the next 48 hours??

There has been such a ruckus to everything around that rundown unmaintained entity . Just the vibrations from the last 48 hours has got to jarr all kinds of stuff . It like its just been beat to hel#.

I cannot grasp how it can not help but be getting shorter (the spillway)? One thing they have never mentioned is directly UNDER the spillway is like a washer machine, how can that not be stirring up the actual damn foundation?? It seems as if that is just a physics "given" Makes no sense??

I know I know its been hard to tell that this story has amazed me . Ha! Have learned a lot, but that also makes it all more scary. The Shasta dam is close to this and that thing is 4 feet away from its capacity. It has been that way for the 72 hours. Once I found that neat page I have been checking it out.

And its spill gates are open and fine but they are not getting any drop over the last 72 hours. The weather men are all excited that the next week of storms are smaller than the the two big waves that came through last month. IMO that only has relevance if all this other cr!p has not been going on.

Its kinda IMO like saying my car has been overheating lately, but I am only going to go 45 mph instead of 60. Who cares? I have a problem, so going 40 instead of 60 does not really seem to "feel" as if I am less likely to overheat!!

Visually, it like if we use a clock, this dam is at noon, and Shasta dam is like at three o clock. The Shasta one holds about a million more gallons than this one. In terms of like tribuataries, it seems like the whole thing is connected.

The big story gets the focus - there have already been smaller levies down from this one that are failing. I wanted to post the video but it is one of those pages that right when the video ends the next one starts but it does not have a back arrow on the page, so I cant get back. Media has given image that downstream water is "staying" in the canals. It is not. Downstream its kinda like on the roads looks as if fire hydrants have been opened up on the roads.

All the mountains in the valley have more snow on them than has ever been recorded in human history. So lets say the whole thing holds up for the next month - when all that starts melting Houston we got a problem!

All this "things" are pooped out!! It's a lot like metal fatigue on airplanes - just how it works IMO.

I sure hope you are correct my dear, but from what I have learned in the last three days way before this the snow melts have been a huge concern for the dam folks throughout the region - more than the rain, until this happened.

I am an intuitive searcher - and I can't remember how I got to that mountain range snowmelt page where I learned that it is the most snow on the mountains in history. There was a correlation between the actual temperatures when all the heavy rain was coming down that made it all worse. It will hopefully come back to me, (the terminology to find it again- it was like an accident - that happens a lot to me!!!) and I will post it.

I found all those govt sites about dams like that too! But I knew to make a shortcut for them once I realized how the inflow and outflow is really huge in this mess!

I had better shut up now !!!!

ops while I am here (ha) it goes all over the place those guys must be just pooped 3 hours ago it 48 000 inflow, the next hour, it was 38 and last hour it was 29 inflow.

I think it is related to high up on the mountains when the sun goes down it refreezes so it stops running down as much and then in the daytime it picks up as it gets hotter again!

That is how it has been hourly -- drastic changes in inflow -- in one instance in two hours it went from like 37000 in to 5000 in!

It is truly fascinating..............

 

[SophieRose]

This is the Feather River upstream at Portola CA, about 100 miles east of Oroville in the Sierra.

[video=youtube;7e77Hv_I84w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e77Hv_I84w[/video]

 

[noel leon]

I have lived in Sacramento my entire life and I have NEVER seen this much snow on our surrounding mountains.

 

[CARIIS]

Tid Bits

:

Tid Bits:

http://en.kiosko.net/us/geo/Washington_DC.htm

--------------------------------------------------------
Jan 12, 2017 06:10 PM PST

Drought ends in the Northstate, Shasta Dam opens spillways

[FONT=&amp]--------------------------------------------------------------

Jan 12 2017 08:15 PM EST:[/FONT]l

[FONT=&amp]Snow pummeled the Sierra Nevada, some locations saw more than 10 feet of snow in just over a week.

[/FONT]https://weather.com/forecast/regional/news/california-atmospheric-river-sierra-snow-flood-forecast-jan2017

-----------------------------------------------------------One little flood warning (just for scale) Feb 13, 2017 08:13 PM PST

CA-Yolo CA-Sutter CA-Solano CA-Plumas CA-Alpine CA-Placer CA-Shasta CA-Lassen CA-Amador CA-Tuolumne CA-Sacramento CA-Lake CA-Stanislaus CA-San Joaquin CA-El Dorado CA-Calaveras CA-Tehama CA-Butte CA-Glenn CA-Sierra CA-Yuba CA-Nevada CA-644 AM PST SAT FEB 11 2017The National Weather Service in Sacramento has extended the* Flood Warning for... Colusa County in central California... Yolo County in central California... Sutter County in central California... Solano County in central California... Plumas County in northern California... Alpine County in northern California... Placer County in central California... Shasta County in northern California... Lassen County in northern California... Amador County in northern California... Tuolumne County in northern California... Sacramento County in central California... Lake County in central California... Stanislaus County in central California... San Joaquin County in central California... El Dorado County in northern California... Calaveras County in northern California... Tehama County in northern California... Butte County in northern California... Glenn County in central California... Sierra County in northern California... Yuba County in central California... Nevada County in northern California...* Until 915 PM PST Monday* At 631 AM PST, river gauges and reports from emergency management officials, law enforcement and the public indicate that widespread flooding impacts are continuing this weekend even though rain has subsided. Soils are saturated so additional landslides, debris flows and downed trees may still occur. Valley streams will continue to rise as it takes time for mountain runoff to reach the valley floor.* Some locations that are experiencing flooding include... All mountain streams and rivers, valley mainstem rivers and creeks, and multiple roadways everywhere. The waters in the Delta will continue to remain very high through the week as flood waters make their way downstream. In addition to flooding, there are multiple reports of landslides across the mountains, this threat will continue for the next few days.PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...Excessive runoff from recent heavy rainfall is causing flooding of small creeks and streams, urban areas, highways, streets and underpasses as well as other drainage areas and low lying spots.A Flood Warning means that flooding is imminent or occurring.

http://www.krcrtv.com/news/flood-warning_86372368/327357325

------------------------------------------------------------
Scroll down to this headline

Neat get to see in from the top of the dam where the emergency work is being done!

Times reporter broadcasts atop Oroville Dam


http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...icial-update-on-the-1486954758-htmlstory.html

------------------------------------------------------------
I found it !

i wont cut and paste the whole thing its millions of numbers !

Just for the Feather River area, here are just a couple as it relates to height of snow on the mountains.

Height of Snow- lets be optimisitc and say these numbers are centimeters not inches (not sure!)

182
117
127

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snow/COURSES

----------------------------------------------------------------
https://weather.com/news/news/snowmelt-flooding-nevada-california

 

[CARIIS]

I have lived in Sacramento my entire life and I have NEVER seen this much snow on our surrounding mountains.

Billy Croyle, the acting chief of the Department of Water Resources said he’d ordered staff members to flee the area, because experts thought the dam would fail.


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2017/02/dam-cali...ten-to-environmentalists/#wM3tKYeiH2ZhjxWu.99TY it is unreal - not one word from Washington - someone needs to remind some people that there is a huge problem coming

 

[CARIIS]

I have lived in Sacramento my entire life and I have NEVER seen this much snow on our surrounding mountains.

How are you doing emotionally?

How much coverage has snowmelt been getting on your local news for the last month?

Is anyone telling anyone anything to do?

If there is anyway you can /want to it would be great to see what you are actually seeing.

What month does the snowmelt typically began?

In comparison to years past - have snowmelts flooded places ?

How far away are you from this dam?

From the Shasta dam?

 

[CARIIS]

[video=youtube;f2g01_uf-1Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2g01_uf-1Q[/video]