CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #4

[Spice]

I'd sure like to know more about the family that wants to adopt them. Lots of responsibility, plus lots of $ in state aid. Adoption takes time. You can't just agree to adopt without knowing them, and these people want to adopt all 13? Aren't there legal implications to adopting adults? Lets stop calling them "children" when 8 are clearly adults.

One story said all were mentally incapacitated, and the 17 yr old even had a first grade comprehension level. Who are these people who are either saints or are not thinking out this situation? I think social services needs to thoroughly check this.

I would guarantee that their are trauma teams , advocates, and trauma specialized mental health professionals wrapped around this. Whoever stepped forward will be thoroughly vetted. It could also be a person that is already approved to foster children, and that person could be trauma trained as well.

Someone else (Not you) appeared incredulous that someone would 'adopt adults". It's not strange. In fact, there are programs where you can do just that for adults who have aged out of foster care. It's about having a family, a place to belong, not just a roof over your head. Also, these are adults who are not functioning at an adult level just yet. They have been deprived and are suffering from nerve damage, cognitive delay due to horrific abuse, and lack of socialization. They will need a lot of trauma informed ,tender care and love to become independent and it will take time.

It may seem "fast" that the siblings may be adopted so quickly. It isn't. They can't live in a hospital obviously. And creating normalcy is going to be important. Once their medical needs are stabilized a treatment (medical mental) and permanency plan (education and adoption) will be created for each of them.

The Federal legislation that guides all of this in the Child Welfare System is called ASFA. (The Adoption and Safe families Act) The focus will be for them to stay together and to do so in a home with a family. It's going to be a very long road for them.

The focus is on permanency in the child welfare system. That is always always the ultimate goal. Whether it is reunification with the original bio parents, placement and then adoption with a kinship foster parent, or placement and then adoption with a non-kinship family. This does not surprise me at all.

ASFA is so permanency focused that if a bio parent does not prove themselves able to to care for their children, the state has the right to involuntarily terminate their rights after 3 years in foster care, 'freeing them" for adoption so that the child achieves permanency. Someone stepped up. I hope that they are qualified and given all of the tools needed to care for these siblings and provide them with the loving family they so deserve.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I never said kids should be cruel, name call ect.... OMFG! Did you even READ the Facebook post I am referring to?

That person never said they picked on J<name redacted>. Just didn't reach out and befriend
and I would caution against teaching a kid their needs are less important than others. Yes I would. It's not selfish or cruel want to be comfortable in a school you have to be in everyday, when your seven or eight yrs old.

(With older kids/ adults it is different. Hopefully they know by then not to sacrifice themselves on someone else's alter and can make more giving choices).

Young children are learning how to care for their own ego needs too, and it should not be a shameful punishable offence to want to fit in with their peer.

(Again, I am NOT suggest picking on others is ever OK at any age!).

Wow.

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[Deleted member 158085]

Sorry, quoting again.

I wonder if this is based on anything they have been told by the survivors? Or is this just procedure?

My guess is that investigators have had the same kinds of discussions we have, especially about the announcement of a new child in 9 months that we never saw. It seems like common sense to me to check because these people are so awful. I hope they will also check the Texas properties.

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[enelram]

Yea, she's definitely the dominant one. He's not innocent, but his expression during the arraignment was interesting to compare to hers. He was very much in the deer in the headlights but angry looking too-- and I wonder if at her. She was very alert and interacting with her lawyer (i.e. Trying to control things still). She truly thinks she did nothing wrong or if it was wrong it was justified (she was "perplexed" as to why she was being arrested so this seems normal to her). I can totally see her reducing him to a pile of crap. I don't have proof obviously, but just hunch based on how relationships like theirs work, is he prob isn't surprised they are there and is now resentful that she got them in this mess. Idk. Just thinking out loud. I have zero doubts tho that she rules the roost. Another poster and I have been discussing this bpd (borderline personality disorder) aspect back and forth a few times yesterday. We both have a family member with bpd so the alarm bells went off as more info about her LT comes out.


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I will be very curious to hear which parent was most violent w/ children, which parent ordered chaining/padlocks,
which parent just carried out the punishment and which one dictated the punishment.
I still wonder if his publicly laid back attitude isn't a ruse for his private violence toward the children. I'm still leaning towards DT being the cruel, violent parent and LT went along with everything because it made her life easier.
They both have obvious behavioral disorders but i don't think we have enough details to determine the dynamics
here. It is obvious that both parents put their personal wants and needs ahead of needs of children.

 

[Rain Dancer]

Wow, what an amazing website! New member so please forgive my naivety if I make any mistakes. I felt I had to register after reading about this and almost all the threads following this gruesome case.
I strongly felt at the very start that all I'd this is due to the Mother (term used very loosely) LT, she has definitely got NPD - Narcissitic Personality Disorder, this is a spectrum disorder and LT displays full blown off the scale behaviour (IMHO). This website provides lots of info re NPD traits - https://www.willieverbegoodenough.com/resources/what-is-narcissism/#.WmSlvDmnyhA

Basically the narcissist thinks everything revolves around her, those poor kids are just the bit players in her fantastic story. The renewals, again all about her, the kids simply do not matter as far as she is concerned all she needed was a passive enabler. Narcissists have this sense of entitlement and expect automatic compliance and they require excessive admiration. They totally lack any empathy, even their own poor children, and just don't see anyone's feelings or care. The photos of her in a Disney princess outfit is exactly how she sees herself, a Disney princess character. She also sees herself as amazing with all these well behaved children. Some of the children will be weaker and readily agree with her crazy demands but I feel things changed when at least 1 child started to rebel a little, these will be known going forward as the scapegoats. The NPD parent will know these children are against/don't agree with her and they will be a lot stricter and sometimes the others will be forced to help mete punishments to the scapegoats. This is done to eventually weaken the scapegoats and ensure compliance. The weaker ones will have no choice but to allow this to happen, even to help, it's that or they will too receive horrible punishments. While they're up all night and asleep all day it totall removes them from an normality, they're less likely to see others walking round, they're alive in a sortve non-world, this helped LT keep control. The feeding, washing, education, socialisation for the children are not important, only the NPD parent us important. I imagine with all the conditioning these poor kids had they just didn't know there was a better life option, all they knew was to shut up and get on with it, the previous punishments and cruelty will bit by bit cow them. I believe at some point, maybe a precious attempt to escape LT will have been so cruel to whoever dared go against her that it's probably terrified them to not even think trying again, maybe even with a threat if anyone does leave I'll be even crueller to who are left. Nothing will surprise about this nasty cruel sadistic person.
The reason I was able to see all this immediately is I do have some experience of it, it's very hard to see or understand from outside, the NPD mother is very aware of how to be/act in public, all smiles and caring and it's very confusing for children when that happens.
All this is just my opinion of course. Apologies for the long post, it actually could've been very much longer, there is so much more going on with NPD and something which I feel isn't commonly known about.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Yes. Just like the pies. Why I bet they even had that last baby just to torment the others by showing them how well they could treat a child.

Naw. I think the kids played with toys, watched tv, showered more than YEARLY,
Possibly didn't march for four hours, or have several dead animals, nor were made to stare at pies while starving to death.

They were abused, neglected for sure, but I am not buying that every single thing we are hearing is fact.

Sorry, what?

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Yes. Just like the pies. Why I bet they even had that last baby just to torment the others by showing them how well they could treat a child.

Naw. I think the kids played with toys, watched tv, showered more than YEARLY,
Possibly didn't march for four hours, or have several dead animals, nor were made to stare at pies while starving to death.

They were abused, neglected for sure, but I am not buying that every single thing we are hearing is fact.

Why would you believe that people who were capable of chaining and starving their children did not also do these things? Do you believe the victims are lying?

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[Deleted member 158085]

Possibly a pleas bargain? They agree to plea guilty to some charges in exchange for the others dropped. Most court cases don't go to trial because of pleas bargaining. I was thinking this morning and it hit me that the charges against the parents as a whole are very damming. But in court each count will be have to be proven separately based on it's own evidence. I was involved in a case that became national news, (Nitro). A man running a canine training center and let all the dogs starve to death over months. He let them lay there dead until someone reported it. The dogs were sent to him from all over the country so the owners had no clue what was happening. It was one of the most horrific animal cases in the area at the time with a slew of charges. When it went to court each charge was dissected and most were dismissed for this reason or that. He ended up with a slap on the wrist and was told he could no longer have dogs (which he did anyway). During the court hearings organizations were outside the courthouse every day in support of the animals and after the outcome they protested. That is a concern to me in this case. It's pure horror as a whole but the case won't be viewed as a whole in court. I seriously hope there are more charges coming to bolster the current charges or that there is solid evidence (pictures, etc) to back each charge. A plea bargain that dismisses some charges while ensuring a long jail sentence can be a safety net for cases like this. Especially given the length of time involved and the number of victims. This has got to be a nightmare for the prosecutor. Not knowing the evidence this is just something that popped in my head. I could be totally off base.

OT - I'm going to follow you because it seems we have a similar background regarding animal rescue.

Regarding this post, though, it's very common for animal abusers not to be prosecuted to the fullest extent because animals are property. I think and hope it's less likely in this case.

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[carnabystreet86]

I will be very curious to hear which parent was most violent w/ children, which parent ordered chaining/padlocks,
which parent just carried out the punishment and which one dictated the punishment.
I still wonder if his publicly laid back attitude isn't a ruse for his private violence toward the children. I'm still leaning towards DT being the cruel, violent parent and LT went along with everything because it made her life easier.
They both have obvious behavioral disorders but i don't think we have enough details to determine the dynamics
here. It is obvious that both parents put their personal wants and needs ahead of needs of children.

The one thing we do know is that DT has one more charge so far than LT. Yes, it&#8217;s going to be interesting

 

[Spice]

Just saying LEGALLY one cannot just adopt an adult.

You can.

 

[Niner]

If they have two houses together, as has been stated, than I would hope they would split the adults with some younger ones in each house. So the adult survivors "know" that the younger ones are okay. Taking another "worry" from their minds.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

It sounds like the medical support team are providing a safe environment for these kids to regain their health, but I agree with previous posters that even the experts have no way of measuring these kids' intellectual potential at this point. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean you don't have the ability to understand it once it's explained. For example, the earliest IQ tests had a socio-economic bias so children from poorer families were penalized for not recognizing items like refrigerators etc. Their situation reminds me in a way of Helen Keller - how do you communicate about something you've never seen or heard or if you don't have the words to describe it? You can't unless you develop a language and a context.
These children are lethargic from malnutrition and terror, plus they have an extremely limited concept of everyday life. I think the people caring for them will have such a rewarding time seeing these children blossom, gaining weight and gradually finding their place in the world. I would wish a fairly sheltered life for the older adult/ children, but I am quite optimistic that the younger children should slowly be able to adjust to everyday life. More than anything, I think their IQ will improve every time it is tested over the next few years.

I expect that someday the younger children, once recovered and reaching adulthood, will actually end up looking out for the older ones who may not recover as fully.

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[Rain Dancer]

I think with the baby she was compliant as she was too little to be anything else, I bet as soon as that baby starts walking and talking, she would've received the same treatment.

 

[Errrr]

First interview with him (and her youngest sister), he says their last contact was in January on the phone, where she mentioned wanting a 14th child and a school bus. Next day's media account has taped interviews with a (rightfully) very angry sister and half brother decrying LT, with sister saying she is "dead to me" and Lambert saying he hopes they torture her the rest of her life. Now today, it's 'they moved to CA so they could be on a reality show and make millions.'

Exclusives are paid interviews, all rights. Exclusives with DailyMail are Very Well Paid interviews. Maybe this is just me, but I am starting to wonder if embellishment and opportunism is a genetic thing, and at this point I'm not inclined to trust this guy any further than I can throw him.

JMO.

I think it's very possible she told her brother that. I don't think she actually intended any reality show like "Hell on Earth". Most of her correspondence was intended to incite envy. Just lying blather with fake photos of the successful family.

 

[enelram]

I think with the baby she was compliant as she was too little to be anything else, I bet as soon as that baby starts walking and talking, she would've received the same treatment.

And the baby was near that stage, 2-3 yrs. old, she was not as inactive or docile as an infant stuck in a playpen.

 

[Rain Dancer]

Re the journals, I think they would've been far too frightened to write (if they can even write) about what was really happening as these could be read and checked by either parent, possibly more likely to be a fairy tale about how beautiful their mum is and what a lovely life they have.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://adoptingback.com/adopting-back/united-states-adult-adoption-law/#ca

 

[Abp5]

I will be very curious to hear which parent was most violent w/ children, which parent ordered chaining/padlocks,
which parent just carried out the punishment and which one dictated the punishment.
I still wonder if his publicly laid back attitude isn't a ruse for his private violence toward the children. I'm still leaning towards DT being the cruel, violent parent and LT went along with everything because it made her life easier.
They both have obvious behavioral disorders but i don't think we have enough details to determine the dynamics
here. It is obvious that both parents put their personal wants and needs ahead of needs of children.

IMO the bruising on her arms in one of the pictures is telling (LT, a baby, and the older son at Krispy Kreme). It looked as if she had been grabbed above the elbow. She seems unaware someone is taking a photo but the oldest son looks terrified behind her. He is looking at the camera and seems uncomfortably aware that a photo is being taken. I don’t think DT took that photo.

 

[Elley Mae]

Re the journals, I think they would've been far too frightened to write (if they can even write) about what was really happening as these could be read and checked by either parent, possibly more likely to be a fairy tale about how beautiful their mum is and what a lovely life they have.

I wondered about the journals/writing/spelling, maybe The children will be asked to read the journal they wrote.

 

[Elley Mae]

IMO the bruising on her arms in one of the pictures is telling (LT, a baby, and the older son at Krispy Kreme). It looked as if she had been grabbed above the elbow. She seems unaware someone is taking a photo but the oldest son looks terrified behind her. He is looking at the camera and seems uncomfortably aware that a photo is being taken. I don’t think DT took that photo.

Have looked for this photo, can’t find it, do you have a link?