GUILTY CA - Andrew Thomas, 26, fatally shot by Paradise PD officer, 26 Nov 2015

[kimlynn]

http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/man-shot-by-paradise-police-officer-dies/37050562

Andrew Thomas, the man shot by a Paradise police officer after a chase that ended in a rollover crash, is dead.

The nursing supervisor at Enloe Medical Center confirmed Thomas died at approximately 5:30 p.m. Saturday, with family at his side.

Oh no. I was hoping he would make it through okay. My thoughts are with the families from this tragic event.
IMO

 

[Archangel7]

I think it's difficult to say whether there was intent or not -- I don't see it as 'obviously' an accident.

But if it was an accident, why did he lie to dispatch, and attempt to cover up the shooting? That lie, on its own, should be considered a crime.

He surprised himself when the firearm discharged and that is clear in the video when his head jerked sideways and he stutter-stepped. I guess one could deduce he tripped/stumbled but it looks more like an interruption in pace due to the gun discharge surprising him.

I almost would bet money on the firearm he is carrying and I will leave it at that.

It appears in the video the firearm discharged unintentionally and thus he believed he hit nothing. His reaction is such that it was a non event as far as any assumed injury and why the driver was uncooperative.

Having said that, LEOs are not to have their sidearm out of the holster unless they see a need or a possible need to use it. Fleeing in a car/failure to yield in that condition, speeding, reckless driving, possible auto theft, etc., etc. are acceptable reason for him to have a gun out and ready.

LEs are trained to not have their finger on the trigger unless they are about to justifiably shoot.
Short of a malfunction of his service firearm, he had his finger on the trigger.

It will cost the Department civilly as it should, you can't recall a bullet, but I saw no evidence of an intent to shoot. Sloppy police gun handling all the way around.

Three lives ruined, with 2 killed. All because of poor choices.

Condolences to all involved. No reason on earth to be here tonight with 2 dead and an officer with a career ending traffic stop.

 

[kimlynn]

He surprised himself when the firearm discharged and that is clear in the video when his head jerked sideways and he stutter-stepped. I guess one could deduce he tripped/stumbled but it looks more like an interruption in pace due to the gun discharge surprising him.

I almost would bet money on the firearm he is carrying and I will leave it at that.

It appears in the video the firearm discharged unintentionally and thus he believed he hit nothing. His reaction is such that it was a non event as far as any assumed injury and why the driver was uncooperative.

Having said that, LEOs are not to have their sidearm out of the holster unless they see a need or a possible need to use it. Fleeing in a car/failure to yield in that condition, speeding, reckless driving, possible auto theft, etc., etc. are acceptable reason for him to have a gun out and ready.

LEs are trained to not have their finger on the trigger unless they are about to justifiably shoot.
Short of a malfunction of his service firearm, he had his finger on the trigger.

It will cost the Department civilly as it should, you can't recall a bullet, but I saw no evidence of an intent to shoot. Sloppy police gun handling all the way around.

Three lives ruined, with 2 killed. All because of poor choices.

Condolences to all involved. No reason on earth to be here tonight with 2 dead and an officer with a career ending traffic stop.

Wouldn't what you call a stutter step be from the force of the gun and a normal movement from firing?
What did he think when the driver slid back down in the car after he fired his weapon?
And what is he looking for on the ground after his radio call in. Bullet casings perhaps?
IMO

 

[Montjoy]

Wouldn't what you call a stutter step be from the force of the gun and a normal movement from firing?
What did he think when the driver slid back down in the car after he fired his weapon?
And what is he looking for on the ground after his radio call in. Bullet casings perhaps?
IMO

I'd like to see this go before a grand jury -- providing that there was equal representation there for prosecution and defense, however that might be accomplished, and providing that the prosecution are not from whatever level of government decided that this was not a criminal homicide.

 

[kimlynn]

I'd like to see this go before a grand jury -- providing that there was equal representation there for prosecution and defense, however that might be accomplished, and providing that the prosecution are not from whatever level of government decided that this was not a criminal homicide.

It's a disgrace that he's being allowed to walk on this. I can't even imagine what the family must be feeling.

 

[Montjoy]

For goodness sakes, it wasn't just that he had his gun out defensively -- he shot the driver in the neck, in a way that was fatal. (But I guess that it's likely that many neck-shots will be fatal.) If not murder, perhaps there is some sort of gross negligence charge that would apply.

If anyone wonders why people have lost faith in LEOs, I think this is just another example of why they should think again. And I'm not trying to defend anyone who drives drunk, but even as a mistake, this is a big one, as bad as driving drunk. This officer was bearing arms, bearing lethal force, when he was evidently incapable of doing so responsibly.

 

[bluesneakers]

He didn't even yell any kind of warning. At least I didn't hear the officer shouting orders. We so often read about do everything the officers say to do, don't make any sudden moves, don't be disrespectful, drop whatever you have in your hand.. but this? What was Thomas supposed to do to avoid being shot?

 

[Brightbird]

The most concerning thing about this incident for me is that it's a symptom of something bigger. What I see is a man incapable of assessing the situation, so he reverts to his training and it backfired terribly. I understand that the nature of their job is often threatening, but approaching the scene of a car crash with a gun aimed is an over exaggeration of this combative mentality. You can see the wife right next to him on the ground when he shoots. A person lays dying at feet but his priority is detaining the driver? So yeah, it's incomptance and possibly criminal negligence, but it also says a lot about the kind of training that incompentant cops fall back on.

 

[Montjoy]

The most concerning thing about this incident for me is that it's a symptom of something bigger. What I see is a man incapable of assessing the situation, so he reverts to his training and it backfired terribly. I understand that the nature of their job is often threatening, but approaching the scene of a car crash with a gun aimed is an over exaggeration of this combative mentality.

rsbm, and forgive me if this is an OT --

With all respect to everyone, law enforcement is way down the list of dangerous jobs. Cab drivers are at much higher risk than they are. Fishers way more than cabbies. Yet, LEOs are entitled to use lethal force under a much broader set of circumstances.

Don't get me wrong, I think that it's horrible for anyone to be injured (or killed) on the job. But let's not pretend that LEOs have a monopoly on heroism because they're the most at risk, since statistics don't support that claim.

 

[bwt42]

rsbm, and forgive me if this is an OT --

With all respect to everyone, law enforcement is way down the list of dangerous jobs. Cab drivers are at much higher risk than they are. Fishers way more than cabbies. Yet, LEOs are entitled to use lethal force under a much broader set of circumstances.

Don't get me wrong, I think that it's horrible for anyone to be injured (or killed) on the job. But let's not pretend that LEOs have a monopoly on heroism because they're the most at risk, since statistics don't support that claim.

Is it possible LEOs encounter more dangerous situations than cabbies but are better prepared to survive them?

 

[bluesneakers]

rsbm, and forgive me if this is an OT --

With all respect to everyone, law enforcement is way down the list of dangerous jobs. Cab drivers are at much higher risk than they are. Fishers way more than cabbies. Yet, LEOs are entitled to use lethal force under a much broader set of circumstances.

Don't get me wrong, I think that it's horrible for anyone to be injured (or killed) on the job. But let's not pretend that LEOs have a monopoly on heroism because they're the most at risk, since statistics don't support that claim.

This is a legend that refuses to die.

 

[Archangel7]

Wouldn't what you call a stutter step be from the force of the gun and a normal movement from firing?
What did he think when the driver slid back down in the car after he fired his weapon?
And what is he looking for on the ground after his radio call in. Bullet casings perhaps?
IMO

The fact is that the gun discharged and the recoil/noise caught him by surprise and that briefly interrupted his gait.

I don't know what he was actually thinking, however his training wouldn't have him with his finger on the trigger EXACTLY for this kind of reason.

To go before a GJ one has to have been charged with a CRIME.
The event would have to show enough reasonable belief/evidence that a criminal law was contravened for the GJ to return a true bill. Then it could proceed to trial.

DUI and running from police in a vehicle is not risk free in absolute terms.
Every time one does that a cop is going to guns in a defensive manner because he doesn't know why one would run from a police vehicle UNLESS there is a serious unlawful reason other than the obvious illegality of failure to yield.

There is an obvious civil side to accidentally shooting someone however.

 

[Brightbird]

This is a legend that refuses to die.

I'm torn on this. The statistics may well show that other professions are more dangerous than police work. But being a police officer is one of the few jobs where the job description entails confronting and containing dangerous people. I mean actual dangerous people, not potentially dangerous people. I don't think we can expect that not to effect the mindset of doing police work. But that's all the more reason to select suitable people and train police to think critically when they feel threatened.

I may also have a skewed perspective of police work in America. I imagine that the fear of someone grabbing their gun first is very real, and not unreasonable given the sheer number of guns and armed people in America. Part of me just thinks this is collateral damage of that. Reap what you sow kind of thing. But what makes me really mad is that it's almost always the people on the lower rungs of society that suffer. That's unacceptable.

 

[bluesneakers]

Paradise mayor releases statement on police shooting

The Town of Paradise is deeply saddened to learn of the death of Andrew Thomas, who was shot by a Town of Paradise police officer following a driving under the influence incident and roll over collision that killed Darien Ehorn, a passenger in Mr. Thomas’ vehicle.
...

The Town of Paradise Police Department is conducting an investigation into the incident that led to the death of Mr. Thomas.

The officer involved in the shooting will remain on administrative leave until this process is concluded.
...
At the same time, the Town has and will continue to cooperate in every way with any investigation by the District Attorney’s Office
...
In the interim, on behalf of all Town employees and management, the consideration and patience of the community during this very difficult time is appreciated.

BBM

Full statement at the link.

 

[bluesneakers]

Butte County District Attorney to reevaluate Paradise police shooting

On Monday, [Butte County District Attorney Mike] Ramsey said Thomas’ death now raises the issue of whether Officer Feaster’s negligent action in handling his firearm rises to the level of criminal negligence necessary to prove a potential charge of involuntary manslaughter.

Prosecutors also plan to explore whether or not Feaster’s decision to wait 11 minutes before reporting his gun fired contributed to Thomas’ death.

 

[Archangel7]

Butte County District Attorney to reevaluate Paradise police shooting

If he had his finger on the trigger when the video indicates a shot, waited 11 minutes to report firing(accident or not) AND shot someone, he is negligent.

 

[kimlynn]

Thanks for the links up above,bluesneakers. I was reading the comment section from those links and came across new video.
I will warn everyone that the new video is graphic (medical for female) and probably doesn't add much to what we already know.

Graphic Warning!

[video=youtube;5z8visGDeSU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z8visGDeSU[/video]

 

[bluesneakers]

Does he say "You're not shot, get out of the car" at 2:11?

And at the end it sounds like he said he was getting out of the car and "I wasn't even pointing at him."

Did I hear that right?

 

[kimlynn]

Does he say "You're not shot, get out of the car" at 2:11?

Yep. And he told the other officer that he (meaning AT) was trying to get away from him.
Notice how he was lying in wait for someone to come out of the bar?
Feaster spends his time looking on the ground (bullet casings IMO) than rendering any help. Dam* idiot. IMO

ETA yes he did say that he wasn't aiming his gun.

 

[Brightbird]

If he had his finger on the trigger when the video indicates a shot, waited 11 minutes to report firing(accident or not) AND shot someone, he is negligent.

And if he waited 11 minutes knowing he was shot, that's criminal negligence surely.