CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[Curiousobserver]

Correct in regards to beneficiaries. My spouse is also my beneficiary. However, You can also name secondary beneficiaries in the event you and your spouse should perish or if something should happen between you and your spouse such as divorce. For the secondary beneficiaries, you can allocate more then one beneficiary and indicate by percentage. I.e. I have my daughter and son as my secondary beneficiaries and allocated 50% split between the two should something happen to the both of us. This impacts any IRA’s that our financial advisor is overseeing for us.

One note to add is that our financial advisor suggested we also get it put in a trust because according to him, he said that if, for instance, my spouse should die before me, and even though I am listed as a beneficiary, there are loop holes in the government policy where they (federal government) can assume the dead spouses monies. Not that they necessary do this but they can according to the law, hence, why the suggestion of opening a trust to protect the monies.

A fact most people don't know about naming beneficiaries of their retirements accounts:

The spouse (legally married) is an automatic beneficiary of a 401(k) plan under federal law if no beneficiary is named and is entitled to 50% of the value at death even if others are named as 100% beneficiaries. In order to "disinherit" a legally married spouse, he/she must agree to it and complete a notarized spousal waiver and submit it to the company administering the plan. Many surviving children have been surprised (shocked) to have to split that asset with Dad's new wife even though they were named as beneficiaries and in the will.

This prevents a spouse from secretly changing the beneficiary to a child, a friend, their mother, or a mistress and leaving his legal spouse penniless.

 

[SH6495]

A fact most people don't know about naming beneficiaries of their retirements accounts:

The spouse (legally married) is an automatic beneficiary of a 401(k) plan under federal law if no beneficiary is named and is entitled to 50% of the value at death even if others are named as 100% beneficiaries. In order to "disinherit" a legally married spouse, he/she must agree to it and complete a notarized spousal waiver and submit it to the company administering the plan. Many surviving children have been surprised (shocked) to have to split that asset with Dad's new wife even though they were named as beneficiaries and in the will.

This prevents a spouse from secretly changing the beneficiary to a child, a friend, their mother, or a mistress and leaving his legal spouse penniless.

ITA ^^^. This was very well defined by all of my employer(s) and my financial advisor. It’s typically in the documents you sign as well. It is sad if the employer administering the plan is not up front about this. It does surprise me how many people do not fully understand what can and will happen to their monies in the case of an unfortunate event.

 

[rosesfromangels]

ITA ^^^. This was very well defined by all of my employer(s) and my financial advisor. It’s typically in the documents you sign as well. It is sad if the employer administering the plan is not up front about this. It does surprise me how many people do not fully understand what can and will happen to their monies in the case of an unfortunate event.

Curious Observer and you are absolutely correct. This type of advisement should come from a professional, especially if you have substantial assets, and/or various people in your life who may want to bicker. Money doesn’t always bring out the best in people. : /

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[al66pine]

Joint Tenant Registration for an IRA? 401(k)?

IRAs can be held in only one person's name, and I believe that is the same with a 401(k). The required distributions are calculated based off the owner's life expectancy (read: age.)

@PaulR Good post. Yes, acknowledging ^ and agreeing, by federal law and IRS regulations* one individual. And that was the point of my earlier post, asking whether we know how RTs & BT's properties, assets are/were titled/registered. Some posters may be making assumptions then stating them as facts.

A person's IRA and/or 401(k) may be the largest part of his/her individual net worth, conceivably more than savings a/cs, CDs, mutual funds, stocks, bonds, etc. which are not held in an IRA. Could be hundreds of thousands of dollars.

A person w a traditional IRA must begin required minimum distributions at ~age 70 1/2.**
IRA and 401(k) are two assets which cannot be held as JTwRoS. When the a/c holder is a MisPers, the spouse has no authority to make withdrawals from the a/c(s).

I am not making assumptions about BT's or RT's finances, just being open to possibilities some may not have considered. Also crossed my mind that BT has/had no IRA or 401(k) now. She may have had both yrs ago, may have taken distributions from them, and now both a/c's are closed ($0 balance). I don't know which of those two possibilities - high value IRA and/or 401(k) OR no IRA and no 401(k) - is closer to being accurate. If the former, consequences for spouse are different than if those same $$$ were in a JTwRoS a/c, from which spouse can make withdrawals.
jmo.
________________________________________
* From IRS Publication 590-A Contributions to Individual Retirement Arrangements (IRAs) for use in preparing 2018 returns, page 5.
** From IRS Publication 590-B, Distributions from Individual Retirement Arrangements (IRAs) For use in preparing 2018 Returns:
^ "When Must You Withdraw Assets? (Required Minimum Distributions) You can't keep funds in a traditional IRA (including SEP and SIMPLE IRAs) indefinitely....
Required minimum distribution. The amount that must be distributed each year is referred to as the required minimum distribution.
***IRA Owners If you are the owner of a traditional IRA, you generally must start receiving distributions from your IRA by April 1 of the year following the year in which you reach age 70 1/2. April 1 of the year following the year in which you reach age 701/2 is referred to as the required beginning date.

 

[cazador]

In the past and most likely even today..
In Mexico many of the poor have their children at home.. No doctor, No hospital.. No documents.
They come across our border and die walking the desert. Or they are murdered for various reason and disposed of in the desert..
Then bones are found and they can not be identified..

I learned this from the Coroner some years back.
He told me they have quite the collection .

 

[LietKynes]

I don't know whether it was a FOIA request, but IIRC @dbdb11 filled out some paperwork requesting the call and they said no, that it was part of an ongoing investigation. JMO

LBM

Thanks for clarifying.

And the "ongoing investigation" is a good thing, as LE are pursuing any leads for information.

 

[LietKynes]

True. Although we have no evidence that Barbara had an IRA, she sure could have. I have a couple and they only permit one beneficiary at a time. My spouse is my beneficiary.

I do believe a death cert would be necessary to change the terms. OTOH, if a person is getting monthly checks, those would continue, I'd think.

Anyway, one of the reasons spouses are always suspect (as RT seemed to indicate in his interview) is that there's almost always a financial motive (even if it's small).

Now that I think about it, the fact that RT's own stated view is that there is foul play involved is interesting. There are only so many possibilities here and for some reason, RT has chosen to believe Barbara is the victim of foul play. The specific kind of foul play that RT thought occurred is not the foul play the police were agreeing to.

LBM

Agreed.

Without his words, most here and elsewhere would've immediately thought she became disoriented from the heat and lost.
That was my first thought, until sroad and others put up photos of a clearly sanded trail and if RT was correct about where she 'disappeared' -- in view of the fifth wheel.

We have him to thank for thinking 'foul play'. Wonder why ? Is he just more paranoid than most ?

 

[rosesfromangels]

In the past and most likely even today..
In Mexico many of the poor have their children at home.. No doctor, No hospital.. No documents.
They come across our border and die walking the desert. Or they are murdered for various reason and disposed of in the desert..
Then bones are found and they can not be identified..

I learned this from the Coroner some years back.
He told me they have quite the collection .

Those who live in the U.S. often lose the perspective that people are literally dying to come to the U.S. for opportunity. You are right; many die attempting to walk through the desert. There was a big outcry a few years back when humanitarian water stations were being removed to discourage people from attempting to make that desert journey.

I have always thought that when you stand out in the desert at night you can hear the cry of the lost souls. I pray that we can bring Barb home so she may have a proper resting spot. Thinking of Erin Corwin, I have hope we will find Barb.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[FrankieT]

If you had a family member that was missing like Barbara - would you put the missing flyer on your social media page?

Every day of my life. Every day.

 

[PaulR]

We have him to thank for thinking 'foul play'. Wonder why ? Is he just more paranoid than most ?

Not paranoid.

Desperate.

If she was really lost in the desert, then she'd be dead.

If she was somehow abducted, there's a glimmer of hope.

 

[LietKynes]

Every day of my life. Every day.

I would go all over our city and neighboring cities, taping flyers wherever they'd allow.

 

[PaulR]

I would go all over our city and neighboring cities, taping flyers wherever they'd allow.

What do you think it means when RT or Paul Miller's wife hasn't done so?

 

[LietKynes]

What do you think it means when RT or Paul Miller's wife hasn't done so?

What do you think ?

Some of my theories (there are more than one) are waiting for an update or more evidence.
Even at this time in the investigation people would be sympathetic to RT if he asked for volunteers to help search or at least put up missing posters everywhere possible.
I don't think that has happened.

This whole case feels so 'off ' and silent. Not sure if that's the right way to describe it.

 

[LietKynes]

What do you think it means when RT or Paul Miller's wife hasn't done so?

Haven't followed the Miller case. Might do so.
Have you ?

I think Michael Chamber's wife had him declared deceased far too soon and gained control of his assets.
MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Haven't followed the Miller case. Might do so.
Have you ?

I think Michael Chamber's wife had him declared deceased far too soon and gained control of his assets.
MOO

Paul’s sister and brother in law have been very active in his search, even hiking through JTNP themselves searching for clues. It’s a complicated case in that it falls within the jurisdiction of the park. We have people in there hiking, making video documentaries of their searches, and others doing excellent tracking maps. Like Barb’s case, it’s vast and unforgiving terrain.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[LietKynes]

Although as far as Barbara, we don't know if her son has flown to CA to help.
Maybe he has, but just hasn't made it public ?
After RT, he would have a vested interest in demanding some answers or taking action.
He has expressed doubts and as her only child he needs to find closure if she's deceased.
MOO

 

[Cherwell]

Not paranoid.
Desperate.
If she was really lost in the desert, then she'd be dead.
If she was somehow abducted, there's a glimmer of hope.

This point has been made many times, and it seems an obvious explanation to me.
Yet still people keep on asking. What other answer are they hoping to get, I wonder.

 

[PaulR]

What do you think ?

I think she's in the desert and there's no point in putting up "wanted" posters. If anyone finds a body in the desert, they're calling the police.

I also don't think there is any point in saying "this is what I'd do" because this isn't happening to you. I know way too many people who have said (for instance) that they'd be able to be 100% full-time caretakers if a family member got sick, only to find that caretaker burnout is real.

 

[MsBetsy]

Not paranoid.

Desperate.

If she was really lost in the desert, then she'd be dead.

If she was somehow abducted, there's a glimmer of hope.

He also made that statement three months ago, while they were still searching for signs of his wife. There was still hope that she might be found alive at that point.
People go through several stages and thought processes at the beginning of a traumatic event.
Mollie Tibbetts family believed she was alive somewhere right up until LE found her body.
Some people never give up hoping.
On the other hand, RT may have lost all hope and is grieving now. At the beginning of the investigation he couldn't even handle reading or watching anything about the investigation.
I don't think there is any way to know what he's thinking or feeling at this point. The only people who probably know are the people close to him and who were close to Barbara who actually are able to see and talk to him. Imo

 

[LietKynes]

Not paranoid.

Desperate.

If she was really lost in the desert, then she'd be dead.

If she was somehow abducted, there's a glimmer of hope.

LBM

Am not getting a sense of 'desperation'.

The husband is free to say what he feels may have happened.
Others are free to disagree with him.
I'm not disagreeing with your posts, @PaulR .

I am disagreeing with someone else's inactions.
And the abduction was dismissed by LE.
They said there's no evidence.

Ok tried to multi-quote from the previous page so as not to post twice.
Wrapped this is quote tags and referenced the original source; but this just looks wonky.
How do you multi-quote from several pages ?

10ofRods : True. Although we have no evidence that Barbara had an IRA, she sure could have. I have a couple and they only permit one beneficiary at a time. My spouse is my beneficiary.

I do believe a death cert would be necessary to change the terms. OTOH, if a person is getting monthly checks, those would continue, I'd think.

Anyway, one of the reasons spouses are always suspect (as RT seemed to indicate in his interview) is that there's almost always a financial motive (even if it's small).

Now that I think about it, the fact that RT's own stated view is that there is foul play involved is interesting. There are only so many possibilities here and for some reason, RT has chosen to believe Barbara is the victim of foul play. The specific kind of foul play that RT thought occurred is not the foul play the police were agreeing to.