CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[PaulR]

SBM BBM
Some even carried a special rock/container in their RV which was placed "outside" with the key in it.

I wasn't sure I believed this but I googled "fake rock for key" and... https://www.amazon.com/WSB-Hide-Realistic-Outdoor-Holder/dp/B007H25IEM (as seen on TV?)

 

[Leney]

I am in no way victim shaming. I live in So. California, I have been to the Mojave Desert more times than I can count. Been to Bullhead, Needles, Vegas, etc., countless times. I know the area well.

I am in no way insulting or questioning her intelligence. And all any of us say here is “in the eye of the beholder “. Even you believing I am victim shaming is “in the eye of the beholder.” An opinion.

I’m just thinking in terms of with so much skin exposed in her chosen apparel, I would worry about sunburn, heat exhaustion, etc., as far as her being out there in the sun for any length of time. I’ve been thinking in terms of how her apparel would affect her health and well being in relationship to her disappearing or for whatever happened to her.

Not with this particular couple.

Their skin was not like "leather", thus I believe it would be safe to assume that they did take precautions.

This was a past time they had done hundreds if not thousands of times previously without incident to our knowledge.

 

[Leney]

I wasn't sure I believed this but I googled "fake rock for key" and... https://www.amazon.com/WSB-Hide-Realistic-Outdoor-Holder/dp/B007H25IEM (as seen on TV?)

LOL

This is an RV club that plan their trips for the entire year.
Their RV's are stocked with everything they would require by way of dishes, clothing, et al.

Not all of them carried a container to put the key in but surprisingly many did. Still do. They are rather inventive to say the least and are often things they have found during their journeys/hikes etc. Something that particular couple/family would recognize.

 

[Leney]

Just thought of this, and I know cell phones can be difficult to locate at times for 911 dispatch centers. However, RT knew he was not 20 miles north, IMO. So, dispatcher difficulties? Idk

Sure wish we had access to that call; it would be nice to know how the sheriff’s office decided to search where they did and, for any future searchers, whether the first reported location might be a place of interest

SBM BBM

RT does not control the NIXLE reports, LE does.

Perhaps the SBCSO would prefer control over which agencies are conducting searches, thus the reason for not releasing this information to the general public and/or organizations they are not as confident in.

 

[Leney]

Flight Plans?
In US some pilots on some planes on some flights must file flight plans; others are not required to do so.
^There, above, the entire sum of my knowledge on the subject. n.e.k. (not exactly kidding)
{{ETA. My knowledge base just expanded, courtesy our buddy wiki but will leave it to the pro's to explain/interpret. Flight plan - Wikipedia }}

@MsBetsy Is your thinking -
if a plane was used in abducting/transporting BT,
- pilot would have been required to file flight plan(s), and
- LE could now check w local towers and/or FAA, and
- flight plan info, if filed, and if accurate, and
- would lead LE to pilots, and
- allow LE to zero in on suspect(s)/perp(s), and
- lead LE to BT, and/or
- eventually point LE to suspect(s)?
Or thinking something else?

Calling for @cazador and/or flying sleuthers, we need you to weigh in & enlighten us pls.
Flight plans, yes or no?
If no flight plans were filed, what other airport records/logs might reveal tail #'s/IDs of planes landing and departing in a given time frame (at airports/locations LE wants to inquire about, say, airports within a 100 - 200 -300 mile radius of the now-famous highway turnout)? Thx in adv.

They always require fuel.
Even if a plane was used, of which there is no evidence that one was, there are other ways in which a LE agency could determine whether or not there were additional flying hours.

Fuel usage is but one example.

 

[firstsleuth]

BBM

SBM BBM

RT does not control the NIXLE reports, LE does.

Perhaps the SBCSO would prefer control over which agencies are conducting searches, thus the reason for not releasing this information to the general public and/or organizations they are not as confident in.

@Leney thank you for your response. BBM...Very good point. And thank you for inspiring a couple of more thoughts on my part regarding the NIXLE- reported 20 miles north location.

I do understand that RT has no control over the NIXLE reports and,

I understood from dbdb11’s sister’s text that RT had not watched his interviews.

However, imo, someone whose spouse went missing would be all over the multiple misreported (in news interviews) and inconsistencies (missing person public appeals) in last seen locations and correcting or adding to them.

For example:
NamUs states they were hiking north of I-40 and EAST of Kelbaker Rd (@10ofRods , this might be particularly interesting to you ...I do like your theory of searching more on HH Rd even though I unfortunately tend to believe she is farther away than that)
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

OAG does not state a last seen location
Barbara Thomas

At the least, these inconsistencies and deafening silence on the part of LE cause me to worry even more for anyone who is missing. My heart goes out to Barbara’s family.
@cazador my husband and I are planning to go to the location around the first week of December, mainly to see for ourselves how hard it would be to be lost there. Wanted to wish you the best if you still are planning to go there as well

Edited to correct my spelling of the NamUs acronym
ETA: “I do understand that RT has no control over the NIXLE reports and,”
ETA: quotes around above ETA

 

[Jade]

.

 

[Cherwell]

my husband and I are planning to go to the location around the first week of December, mainly to see for ourselves how hard it would be to be lost there.

I'd be interested to know how much difference there might be in the vegetation in summer and in winter. Someone said that the growth was particularly dense this year. Is there much in the way of deciduous plants that die down in winter?

 

[Curiousobserver]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

We have made a big assumption they they returned to the RV along the same route and that he didn't return before she did.

She might have gone back looking for him.

Add it to the list of unknowns here.

 

[10ofRods]

We have made a big assumption they they returned to the RV along the same route and that he didn't return before she did.

She might have gone back looking for him.

Add it to the list of unknowns here.

Very true. In fact, if starting from the beginning of the story, we can consider that she had accompanied RT the entire walk, perhaps ending up on the spur trail to the creek bed/dry wash. Then they each have to find their way back to the RV. If she had gone a ways along the southern trail at that one intersection (still with the RV in and out of view), he would have returned before her, apparently taken the key?, and then gone to look for her (missing her again?) That has happened many times in missing persons cases (usually not with such serious consequences, but still). I keep thinking about how neighbors say that they went everywhere together, the only time she was seen walking alone was with her dog, in her own neighborhood.

I do think it's possible she might have gone back to look for him (and even taken the short cut down the dry wash, as it would be interesting to do so and she may have thought she'd see him quicker). Many a lost person story starts with a shortcut. The "dry wash" idea comes from a reporter's/blogger's tweet (and FB post) around July 13, but she hasn't responded to my messages. If anyone comes across it, please post it!

I'd be interested to know how much difference there might be in the vegetation in summer and in winter. Someone said that the growth was particularly dense this year. Is there much in the way of deciduous plants that die down in winter?

It's more like the plants wither back. The cholla were blossoming, creating more of a screen than they would in winter. Creosote dies back. The wind comes and the smaller branches at the ends of plants disappear. There's still going to be pretty thick brush in many places on the west side of the road. The colorful blossoms would be gone, so a red hat would stand out more. Due to run off from roads, plants grow taller/thicker near road edges (including Hidden Hills), so if she did wander into that area, a really intensive search would have been needed.

Growth was so much greater this year that the desert parks saw a big uptick in visitors.

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is dedicated to discussing the case. It does not exist for members to tell others what to think/post/do/discuss.

Please stay on topic.

 

[al66pine]

Taking Pix & Vids at the Site? How to Show Scale?
WebSleuthers' pix & videos of the area and trail helped give the rest of "the viewers back home" a sense of how BT could/could not have wondered off/gotten lost and either be seen/not be seen by RT, etc. (depending on our individual interps).
Cherwell just asked about density & size of vegetation. Very difficult to get a handle on plant size, as few, if any, vids, contain an object of known size to give us a sense of scale. Could future vid-recording visitors place something/somebody an object of known size in each frame of a still pic, w a note in accompanying post(s), like My friend is 5'2"(or 6'5")?
These pix/vids taken several months after disappearance may show plants being different size than before, but I think will still be helpful.
Other ideas on what could show scale?

 

[Chingaling]

Not with this particular couple.

Their skin was not like "leather", thus I believe it would be safe to assume that they did take precautions.

This was a past time they had done hundreds if not thousands of times previously without incident to our knowledge.

IDK RT has a lot of sun damage.Very plain to see.

 

[k-mac]

My initial point was you can't compare Montana to the Mojave.

Past that, I agree with you. There are actual photos of Barbara wearing a bikini in the desert on other occasions. I am so fair skinned I look like a lab rat. And would never do that. She's obviously tanned and it's obviously her business. She's a big girl. I dunno why other people freak out about it.

are there any actual photos of Barbara wearing a bikini, knee high black socks with hiking boots??

pretty sure I haven't seen any.
I have seen pics of barb in a bikini in holiday mode around her camp site, watering holes etc having a relaxing time.

but there is a big difference between going for a walk in the middle of the day and summer frolicking around your destination.


moo

 

[k-mac]

We haven't heard how much she consumed either, so I don't see the relevance.
He may not have drunk any alcohol. He was driving a large rig which would be tricky to manoeuvre, and the RV was new. I don't see him wanting to risk damaging it. Time enough to enjoy a few beers when safely parked at the day's destination.

yes we could apply the same sensible assumptive mentality to Barbara.
there is no physical proof she drank any alcohol that day either.

moo

 

[k-mac]

If Barbara had been drinking, I agree that may be relevant as it could have had an adverse effect on her. But I don't understand why you singled him out, when we haven't heard how much either of them drank, that's all.

agree Cherwell
I tagged your previous post not seeing this.
its all assumptions about either of them and alcohol imo its not proven either even had any.

moo

 

[10ofRods]

are there any actual photos of Barbara wearing a bikini, knee high black socks with hiking boots??

pretty sure I haven't seen any.
I have seen pics of barb in a bikini in holiday mode around her camp site, watering holes etc having a relaxing time.

but there is a big difference between going for a walk in the middle of the day and summer frolicking around your destination.


moo

She's wearing a black bikini top standing near some sandstone boulders, in a red and white hat, in the picture released by LE. It appears to be cropped from a larger photo.

LE reported to the CaDOJ that she was wearing black bra and underwear, IIRC (so, a bikini). LE has said they have photographic evidence that she was there in the desert that day, presumably the photo shows that RT wasn't lying.

It's been 3 months and no public aid has been sought in finding Barbara since the initial search. No sign of the hat or anything else relating to Barbara.

 

[k-mac]

She's wearing a black bikini top standing near some sandstone boulders, in a red and white hat, in the picture released by LE. It appears to be cropped from a larger photo.

LE reported to the CaDOJ that she was wearing black bra and underwear, IIRC (so, a bikini). LE has said they have photographic evidence that she was there in the desert that day, presumably the photo shows that RT wasn't lying.

It's been 3 months and no public aid has been sought in finding Barbara since the initial search. No sign of the hat or anything else relating to Barbara.

yes i am aware of the shoulder high cropped shot my question was and is has there been any pictures of Barbara from anytime in a full bikini, black long socks and hiking boots.
(to confirm this is indeed a normal attire for her to hike in)
as stated in my previous posts the released pictures ( I have seen) show her relaxin and frolicking around water holes and camp sites while wearing FULL BIKINI (not top and shorts but full bikini swimwear) and bare foot.

moo

 

[MsBetsy]

agree Cherwell
I tagged your previous post not seeing this.
its all assumptions about either of them and alcohol imo its not proven either even had any.

moo

Well, nothing was mentioned about RT but it's always been reported that she was holding a beer when RT last saw her.
The VI acknowledged that a beer and a bikini sounds like Barbara.
So it's more than just an assumption.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

yes i am aware of the shoulder high cropped shot my question was and is has there been any pictures of Barbara from anytime in a full bikini, black long socks and hiking boots.
(to confirm this is indeed a normal attire for her to hike in)
as stated in my previous posts the released pictures ( I have seen) show her relaxin and frolicking around water holes and camp sites while wearing FULL BIKINI (not top and shorts but full bikini swimwear) and bare foot.

moo

There is a picture of her camping in a bikini, I'm not sure about the socks and hiking boots.
But given the terrain and the environment it makes sense that she would be wearing socks to cover her legs and hiking boots.