CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[PaulaDC]

No - forensic accountants connect all those dots and he would have to cough it back up. It's 100% her money, and the money of whomever she wills it to.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Good luck. I have personal experience. When it's gone, it's gone.

 

[PaulaDC]

If she commingled her inherited cash with his, and didn't have a will, then I think he can spend it freely.

Especially if she is just missing and not declared deceased.

If they do find her remains,and if she does not have a formal will, then it will be very hard to untangle the assets, if she has commingled them with his.

So frankly speaking, it's better for someone to remain missing as you can drain those accounts as you please and there isn't anything or anyone to step in. Moo

 

[Kapua]

There are so many organizations that go out into the desert, though. If the facts as we know them are correct, she went missing near a research center and near a major Mojave attraction (Granite Peak). ATVers, climbers, rock hounds, photographers, archers, star gazers, mountain bikers, hikers, drone clubs and others all go out there, and many are organized. In fact, I'm in touch right now with a friend from a nearby city (former LE) who is thinking about taking 2 other people out there to search. Would be better if organized, don't you think?

The "good" would be finding her body. At this point, for some of us, that's a major goal as I've stated previously. It would do some people (our VI and others) a world of good if she is found. And if she is "simply lost" then she can't be impossible to find. There are all kinds of known techniques for remapping a search under these circumstances and I'm guessing that *some* of the SAR volunteers would be interested in applying those techniques. However, regular individuals who are familiar with the desert are the ones most likely to find her body, IMO. This doesn't mean that her next of kin should just leave it all up to fate, they can encourage the rest of us to keep working on the case. If in fact the next of kin (RT) wanted some help in this sad task, I could definitely put him in touch with various searchers (as can many people here on WS).

If it's the cost of these kinds of things that is daunting, there are people who specialize in organizing fund raising for missing persons.

I'm not saying RT has given up (perhaps he's grief stricken and devastated). But he has family too, younger people around him who could help give structure and incentives to a search for Barbara.

Some people feel it's not that important to search for a dead person, but many many others still want to help. Seeing her before she went missing isn't that important now, but finding her is still important.

Yes, you are right, it is best to organize a search with some idea of where to begin looking, local experts, and ideally, LE cooperation.
Searching with a solid plan and a fair number of people who are properly equipped is more likely to succeed. I wish we could interest some off-roaders.
Early on, someone suggested doing a walk/run/bike for Barb. I still think it's a good idea. It could revive interest in the case.

 

[155etta]

If BT inherited millions, I'm having trouble reconciling this with the fact that she felt she couldn't keep the borrowed cell phone in Hong Kong because it was too expensive. Why didn't she buy herself a cell phone? The VI has stated she mentioned wanting one. It apparently wasn't about money.

 

[10ofRods]

SBM

The NIXLE reports do not indicate to the best of my recollection which canines were used/not used.

The cost to train any SAR/LE canine, whether that is in scent/tracking/human remains is great, as is the time and dedication required to become certified. I won't even go into the various certifications required.

I don't believe it has been specified by LE which were used. The video/pictures provide some clues, but are simply snaps of moments at a particular moment in time.

LE has not stated which resources were utilized with respect to the canines in particular, and could of used other resources that even SAR may not be aware of.

The NIXLE records do not say which type, but the only video of canines are clearly and plainly sniffer dogs, being led to the junction of trails, and encouraged to catch a scent. Their handlers are not treating them in the manner of cadaver dogs.

So, unless some other dogs came out a day or two later, then sniffer dogs were used. IOW, I believe sniffer dogs were used and will need evidence or indication to indicate that (much more unavailable, more expensive) cadaver dogs were used.

Sniffer dogs do not generally receive as much training as cadaver dogs, are more available and, apparently, less reliable as their task is very general and difficult. It's possible that LE took cadaver dogs out there without SAR involvement but again, in California, they have to account for how they spent their money and to whom the checks were written. To the Board of Supervisors. So it might be interesting to start reading the Brown-acted minutes of that body.

Cadaver dogs that are reputable, I agree, are not free. Their handlers must be paid and transport to the Mojave paid for as well. So, there will be a record of that payment in the public record. LE is not above the law when it comes to spending public funds.

 

[LietKynes]

So frankly speaking, it's better for someone to remain missing as you can drain those accounts as you please and there isn't anything or anyone to step in. Moo

Bingo.
It might explain many aspects of this troubling case.
Could try to post a disclaimer but nothing else fits.
Was there anyone outside of family who would've known Barbara's finances ?
Sounds as if the VI is learning new evidence since she went missing; as well as the rest of us.
MOO

 

[al66pine]

Has Capital? Part 2

....(like Barbara) who sold real estate and then paid a good sized down payment for her/their house in Bullhead City ... the house is worth more in equity than some people's houses. So that's a clue that there's "capital."
...our VI has mentioned that Barbara had inherited "millions." My guess is that they owe nothing on the truck and RV....

@10ofRods sbm Thanks for your post, re RT/BT's real est, etc and "clue that there's capital." You have dug deeper into detail than I have.
I don't disagree w your characterizations of their finances, but note that my earlier post did not address
whether RT or BT had capital or any aspect of RT's or BT's finances. My point was this:
"...multiple rec vehicles ... not a good indicator of a person's capital. jmo. ymmv." I still stand by it. jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I absolutely agree with you. When they brought in certified cave searchers my first thought was HRD dogs rappelling with them. They were most likely part of the search towards the end.

Thank you for using the correct term of HRD dog instead of "cadaver" dog.

It tells me that you actually know something about the subject.

Human Remains Detection (HRD) Dogs

HRD dogs are trained to specifically find the odor of decomposing human remains. HRD dogs are trained to ignore live human scent and animal scent, and only indicate on human remains. These dogs can be used to find human remains related to crime scenes, old missing persons cases, small scent sources, and natural or man-made disaster events.

Human Remains Detection (HRD)

 

[al66pine]

,

If BT inherited millions, I'm having trouble reconciling this with the fact that (1) she felt she couldn't keep the borrowed cell phone in Hong Kong because it was too expensive. (2) Why didn't she buy herself a cell phone? The VI has stated she mentioned wanting one. It apparently wasn't about money.

@155etta Added ^ red #. Thanks for your post. I've had trouble reconciling this seeming contradiction too.
(1). Is it possible BT thought that gift was too extravagant, too expensive, maybe thought the fam donor went too far, misperceived donor's budget or finances? Maybe did not want to fool w higher tech features of that particular phone? Just wanted basic features?

(2). Is it possible BT had a cell? Possibly purchased after her May (?) 2018 visit to Hong Kong, when she mentioned wanting one to fam?. Maybe did not mention she had already had one. Maybe had a burner, only wanted to talk w specific ppl, e.g. son, and bestie-confidante?

IDK, just possibilities.

 

[al66pine]

....Pretty sure that San Bernardino LE keep an eye on what he's doing. They never lost Chase Merritt, did they?

@shanadk . Thanks for post.
"Keeping an eye on him?"
How? Tailing him? Driving by his home? Calling him, ostensibly to give status reports? Or?

 

[al66pine]

Did BT Transfer Inheritance to Others?

What if BT donated the majority of the alleged inheritance to charity and she retained only a small amount? It could all be gone. JMO

@RANCH Thanks for your post, making a good point. A possibility.
Regardless of amt of inheritance (whether $ 30,000 or $ 300,000 or $ 3,000,000), if BT had been so inclined, she could have transferred all/virtually all of it to fam members, friends, and/or charities or others, not to RT. If so, possibly only a small amt or nothing left.
Personally I'm not convinced, but ack'ing as a possibility.

 

[Cherwell]

There are so many organizations that go out into the desert, though. If the facts as we know them are correct, she went missing near a research center and near a major Mojave attraction (Granite Peak). ATVers, climbers, rock hounds, photographers, archers, star gazers, mountain bikers, hikers, drone clubs and others all go out there, and many are organized. In fact, I'm in touch right now with a friend from a nearby city (former LE) who is thinking about taking 2 other people out there to search. Would be better if organized, don't you think?

The "good" would be finding her body. At this point, for some of us, that's a major goal as I've stated previously. It would do some people (our VI and others) a world of good if she is found. And if she is "simply lost" then she can't be impossible to find. There are all kinds of known techniques for remapping a search under these circumstances and I'm guessing that *some* of the SAR volunteers would be interested in applying those techniques. However, regular individuals who are familiar with the desert are the ones most likely to find her body, IMO. This doesn't mean that her next of kin should just leave it all up to fate, they can encourage the rest of us to keep working on the case. If in fact the next of kin (RT) wanted some help in this sad task, I could definitely put him in touch with various searchers (as can many people here on WS).

If it's the cost of these kinds of things that is daunting, there are people who specialize in organizing fund raising for missing persons.

I'm not saying RT has given up (perhaps he's grief stricken and devastated). But he has family too, younger people around him who could help give structure and incentives to a search for Barbara.

Some people feel it's not that important to search for a dead person, but many many others still want to help. Seeing her before she went missing isn't that important now, but finding her is still important.

Of course, but you are talking about searching, which I was not. I specified "flyers, appeals for information, even a reward" which some people seem to be clamouring for.

Searching is a different matter altogether, and I agree that that's the way to go when the time is right. Could that also mean waiting until the vegetation has diminished a bit? I have seen comments that growth was particularly lush and thick this summer.

 

[10ofRods]

Of course, but you are talking about searching, which I was not. I specified "flyers, appeals for information, even a reward" which some people seem to be clamouring for.

Searching is a different matter altogether, and I agree that that's the way to go when the time is right. Could that also mean waiting until the vegetation has diminished a bit? I have seen comments that growth was particularly lush and thick this summer.

Oh, I thought it was obvious that the only way to get people to keep their eyes open and look for Barbara is to have publicity. People wouldn't know where to search or who to search for without publicity. That's how most people who are found in wilderness are found, once they are missing for more than a few days, someone in the public finds them. There are families that keep those posters up at relevant places (in Barbara's case, Kelso Depot would be good) for a decade or more and so, instead of just ignoring possible human remains (and that has been done, or the remains have been taken by curiousity seekers), some people realize they should let proper authorities know or, if the remains are in a perilous place, carry them to authorities.

The appeal of keeping human bones is real, publicity helps put a face on those finds, especially once they are fully skeletonized.

 

[K9Enzo]

I have zero experience with California laws and did not know that a handler of a HRD dog is required to be paid. Interesting. I do know that an itemized list of search missions is required for most counties right down to the cost of the fuel that was used for vehicles. Seeing the actual grand total at the end would shock many people.

IMO, many handlers of HRD dogs are volunteers. This does not at all give me pause. Some LE departments are fortunate to have a certified HRD K9 and handler. Those that don’t, call in as an example, a SAR organization that has one on their team. I cannot stress enough how vital it is for LE to trust these teams. There is a reason some are routinely called by LE over others. Some are still cringing over the case of Sandra Marie Anderson who was a HRD K9 handler that was planting human remains in cases for her dog to get credit. Deplorable. She was convicted and went to jail.

I have a friend with a HRD dog (certified both land & water), she’s on a volunteer wilderness SAR team. She was called out this summer for a drowned teenage boy. Her dog found that poor kid after a few days of dive teams searching, he was caught up in downed trees below the surface water. She is not paid for her services. Her dog is incredible and has an outstanding reputation with LE. She has even trained at the Body Farm. She can and has testified in court as well.

I have personally seen the blood sweat and tears handlers have put into their dogs, whether they are a trailing dog, air scent dog or a HRD dog. The training for all is extensive, costs money and there is an incredible amount of training hours that goes into these dogs after certifications are received. THEN, you may have a dog that ends being washed or a young dog who is retired for an injury. Now you are starting over if you have the grit for it.

Again, I personally would be surprised of HRD dogs were not part of the search for BT. The Nixle report just called out K9’s and K9 units. But who knows at the end of the day.

Enough of my rambling and this is all my opinion

 

[shanadk]

I imagine LE is watching RT's
spending, long distance travel, changes in physical appearance, and who he is spending most of his time with.

@shanadk . Thanks for post.
"Keeping an eye on him?"
How? Tailing him? Driving by his home? Calling him, ostensibly to give status reports? Or?

I don't know. I'm not LE .
I trust that a big agency like SB will have the manpower and technology to do what they need to do. but maybe that is naive or optimistic . (both of which I've been called before.)

 

[10ofRods]

I have zero experience with California laws and did not know that a handler of a HRD dog is required to be paid. Interesting. I do know that an itemized list of search missions is required for most counties right down to the cost of the fuel that was used for vehicles. Seeing the actual grand total at the end would shock many people.


Enough of my rambling and this is all my opinion

I don't know that the handlers have to be paid. In fact, all of my experience is the same as yours - the handlers are volunteers and are not paid. If I implied otherwise, I obviously chose the wrong words.

However, I have never heard of a case where the handlers paid for their own hotels, transportation and expenses. These can be considerable (and sometimes include airfare).

The County pays for those things. And they would be significant, given that the search area is in the middle of nowhere. In my county, the County pays for SAR gasoline, expenses and liability insurance. In an ongoing search, they also pay for and provide meals. The SAR volunteers are not expected to bring their own food, and any equipment that is one time use is paid for by the County. I agree with you that people would be surprised at how quickly the costs add up.

Still, didn't we hear that Barbara's search cost $80,000? I've seen that figure here, but now I don't know where it came from - perhaps just an estimate of $10,000 a day (given that air support was involved on several days, that's not surprising).

In 2016, when SBSCO had a big fire, they brought in teams of dogs from San Diego County (which has a few teams of cadaver dogs). I think San Bernardino does have a team of its own, but cadaver dogs are few and far between, and I can't say that with certainty. I know that SD's dogs are in high demand. They were flown into the Paradise fire area and their teams were housed nearby (hotels) and fed. My own county uses dogs from Santa Barbara County and San Diego County.

San Bernardino's own volunteer handlers/canine units traveled 76,000 miles in 2018. The reimbursement rate is established by law and policy at the County level. The reporter who gathered that information probably just took it from public records (easiest way to get it).

I'll try to find out how many SAR dogs SBerd has, of its own. I count 8 of them in a team picture probably taken in 2016. San Bernardino, where the equipment is housed and deployed for most searches, is 2.5 hours away from the search site. Hard to say where the handlers live, but no one much lives near Kelbaker road, so I'm assuming they either gather and deploy from County HQ, a 5 hour daily round trip for the handlers, not counting search time (and they had to get there early in the morning for heat not to be a major factor) OR they stay in motels closer to the search site. Ludlow is only 40 minutes away and has at least one motel. My friends in SAR stay in cheap motels. When it's a training exercise, they pay their own expenses. When it's an actual search, the LE entity puts them up. Sometimes the accommodations are tents, but I don't think that was the case in the Mojave in July.

I just think that the logistics of this search might have required handlers to either travel 5 hours round trip (in pre dawn or post dusk hours) and that sort of thing affects length of time for the search (again, covering just 1 square mile would be at least a day's work; for cadaver searches, they need to search further - it would be a few days of searching, driving 5 hours every day would take its toll on dogs and handlers alike, which makes the search less reliable). But that's a lot of gas (and if the handlers are not from actual San Bernardino, there would still be accommodation costs). Handlers travel with quite a bit of dog gear but apparently use a variety of personal vehicle types.

The overnight lows were in the 90's out there (at 5 am). It was still in the upper 90's at midnight according to the Desert Research Center data.

I sure hope that there was a human remains recovery dog among the dogs brought out there.

 

[deugirtni]

Is it the same in the US as it is here in Canada, where inheritances are not subject to the 50/50 sharing equity rules that exist in family law? ie here if you're married, or living together for I believe it is only one year, the spouse is entitled to half of everything..... except for inheritance monies. (Unless there is a prenup I suppose)

 

[katydid23]

Is it the same in the US as it is here in Canada, where inheritances are not subject to the 50/50 sharing equity rules that exist in family law? ie here if you're married, or living together for I believe it is only one year, the spouse is entitled to half of everything..... except for inheritance monies. (Unless there is a prenup I suppose)

Yes, it is the same in the US. However, if the recipient of the inheritance, takes those dollars and places them in a joint bank account, or commingles them in jointly shared assets, like down payment on house, etc, then those things became community property.

Also, while missing and not declared deceased, if those monies are in a joint account, they can be spent by the partner, with no legal problems.

 

[10ofRods]

Is it the same in the US as it is here in Canada, where inheritances are not subject to the 50/50 sharing equity rules that exist in family law? ie here if you're married, or living together for I believe it is only one year, the spouse is entitled to half of everything..... except for inheritance monies. (Unless there is a prenup I suppose)

If the person inheriting desires, they can keep their inheritance separate from their spouse in both Arizona and California.

However, it's entirely up to the person who inherits. Once they get the money, they can do whatever they want with it. Most people I know choose to put the funds into joint accounts with their spouse (which means that no further will is required and when one spouse dies, the other still has access to the money). I have seen people choose to do otherwise when I worked in law firms, and it was people who inherited amounts of money and property similar to Barbara's and who wanted to leave varying amounts to various people, so trusts were set up.

I definitely want my spouse and kids to have immediate access to my inheritance if something happens to me, it was easy to accomplish with the cash simply by adding my husband to the account. If Barbara trusted RT (and I believe she did), she very likely did what most of us do. She simply put the money into their joint accounts. Someone suggested the possibility that RT might even have been the money manager (I bet he was).

 

[al66pine]

Is SanBern. County LE "Keeping an Eye" on RT?
I'm wondering about logistics of & legal angles re SanBern County Sheriff, California LE, if they are driving by RT's home in Bullhead City Arizona or tailing him in AZ.
And CA LE securing search warrants for AZ property/ies, if that has happened?

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Previous posts

I imagine LE is watching RT's
spending, long distance travel, changes in physical appearance, and who he is spending most of his time with.
Then from my post:
@shanadk . Thanks for post.
"Keeping an eye on him?"
How? Tailing him? Driving by his home? Calling him, ostensibly to give status reports? Or?
I don't know. I'm not LE .
I trust that a big agency like SB will have the manpower and technology to do what they need to do. but maybe that is naive or optimistic . (both of which I've been called before.)