CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

[MsBetsy]

I agree. Originally, I was simply clarifying for Seattle1 that we don't know FOR A FACT when the photo was taken because LE hasn't said, but our VI seems to think it wasn't taken that day... But, here we go again, lol. MOO

Yes, I still think it's possible that it wasn't taken that day, but it may be the next recent picture they could find. Just not an old picture, taken a few years ago.

So in any case it doesn't really matter, since LE believes Barbara was there that day, where RT last saw her.
That is the last location LE believes she was when she went missing, and the picture is the most recent one they had to include in the missing persons poster.

The important thing is that is what she looked like when she went missing.

Imo

 

[Stripehaven]

Even if the photo of Barbara was taken that day, it doesn’t mean she couldn’t have been somewhere else later that day, in the several hours between the reported hike and the 911 call. I find the photo irrelevant altogether.

 

[LietKynes]

Yes, I still think it's possible that it wasn't taken that day, but it may be the next recent picture they could find. Just not an old picture, taken a few years ago.

So in any case it doesn't really matter, since LE believes Barbara was there that day, where RT last saw her.
That is the last location LE believes she was when she went missing, and the picture is the most recent one they had to include in the missing persons poster.

The important thing is that is what she looked like when she went missing.

Imo

LBM

ITA.
That ^^^

 

[al66pine]

...At this time it is still a missing persons Investigation....Imo

@MsBetsy bbm sbm Re ^ Not sure imo.
When suspending search approx July 22, LE said the matter was referred to Specialized Investigations Division, that it is routine in missing persons cases, in which person is not found. I skimmed info below and links, did not see that unresolved MisPers cases are routinely referred to SID.
I'm not saying those cases are not routinely referred to SID.
Am saying this case could have been referred to SID because they suspected it was ---
'unexplained death' or 'death of a suspicious nature' even though remains had not been located.

Referral of this case to SID is ambiguous, imo, i.e., could have been to initiate homicide investigation, continue investigation as MisPers, or both. If this case is now a homicide investigation, LE is not obligated to release to public.
jmo.
---------------------------------------
"The Specialized Investigations Division is comprised of the Homicide Detail, Crimes Against Children Detail and the Polygraph Detail. These details investigate a variety of major crimes including homicides, suspicious deaths, in-custody deaths, officer-involved shootings, [crime against children]...." bbm
"The Homicide Detail is responsible for investigating all homicides, unexplained deaths, deaths of a suspicious nature and in-custody deaths that occur in the Department’s primary jurisdiction..." bbm
^ Specialized Investigations – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department

 

[MsBetsy]

@MsBetsy bbm sbm Re ^ Not sure imo.
When suspending search approx July 22, LE said the matter was referred to Specialized Investigations Division, that it is routine in missing persons cases, in which person is not found. I skimmed info below and links, did not see that unresolved MisPers cases are routinely referred to SID.
I'm not saying those cases are not routinely referred to SID.
Am saying this case could have been referred to SID because they suspected it was ---
'unexplained death' or 'death of a suspicious nature' even though remains had not been located.

Referral of this case to SID is ambiguous, imo, i.e., could have been to initiate homicide investigation, continue investigation as MisPers, or both. If this case is now a homicide investigation, LE is not obligated to release to public.
jmo.
---------------------------------------
"The Specialized Investigations Division is comprised of the Homicide Detail, Crimes Against Children Detail and the Polygraph Detail. These details investigate a variety of major crimes including homicides, suspicious deaths, in-custody deaths, officer-involved shootings, [crime against children]...." bbm
"The Homicide Detail is responsible for investigating all homicides, unexplained deaths, deaths of a suspicious nature and in-custody deaths that occur in the Department’s primary jurisdiction..." bbm
^ Specialized Investigations – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department

Yes, it is standard procedure when the missing person is not found after a certain length of time, when all investigative efforts have been exhausted, to refer the case to SID. This is typical of every case and does not imply that a crime has occurred, or that a crime has not occurred.

It does not indicate that the status of the investigation has been changed to a criminal investigation.

As far as we know it is still a missing persons investigation, as there is no evidence to suggest that there is a criminal element. The last statement that LE made is that they did not find evidence of a kidnapping and they do not suspect foul play.

Imo

 

[al66pine]

Yes, it is standard procedure when the missing person is not found after a certain length of time, when all investigative efforts have been exhausted, to refer the case to SID. This is typical of every case and does not imply that a crime has occurred, or that a crime has not occurred.
It does not indicate that the status of the investigation has been changed to a criminal investigation.
As far as we know it is still a missing persons investigation, as there is no evidence to suggest that there is a criminal element. The last statement that LE made is that they did not find evidence of a kidnapping and they do not suspect foul play. Imo

@MsBetsy
Rewording to summarize my earlier post: referral of this case to SID is subject to various interpretations. Is LE now pursuing as a missing person investigation, a criminal investigation, or both. Any of the three is possible, imo.

 

[al66pine]

Based on procedure* below, I'm wonder if this is correct interpretation.
1. As SanBern Sheriff's Dept took initial BT MisPers report, then ---
2. SBSD respon. for notifying & sending copies of MP rpt to dept w jurisdiction over BT's residence.
... ?: Bullhead City PD or Mohave County AZ sheriff? Or?
3. "Recommended" initial MP investigation "should be handled by" SBSD (place MP last seen).
4. SBSD respons. for entering MP info into (Calif) DoJ's MP data base.
5. SBSD respons. for "coordinating a bilateral investigation" w dept w jurisdiction over BT's residence.
...?: Again, BH City PD or Mohave County AZ sheriff? Or?
6. After SBSD exhausts all investigative leads, "should" transfer case to dept w jurisdiction over BT's residence.
....?: Again, BH City PD or Mohave County AZ sheriff? Or?
a) Inc. making computer note in (Calif) MP system to show which agency is respons. for investigation.
7. SBSD should route all future leads to agency w jurisdiction, based on MP residence.
"...imperative that all agencies involved in MP investigation work closely together."
^jmo
Sooooo,
Q1: Has SBSD exhausted all investigative leads?
Q2: Is investigation still in hands of SBSD? Or another agency?
Q3: Has either BH City PD or Mojave County AZ made any stmt on this case?

-------------------------------------------------------
* https://post.ca.gov/Portals/0/post_docs/publications/Missing_Persons_Investigations.pdf
"Missing Persons Investigations
Section 4. Follow Up Investigation
PC Sec 14205 c) requires the agency taking the initial missing persons report “to promptly notify” and send copies of the report to the department that has jurisdiction over the missing person’s resident address and to the agency where the missing person was last seen.
"It is recommended that the initial investigation should be handled by the agency of jurisdiction where the missing person was last seen. This includes entry of the missing person into the Department of Justice’s MPS (Missing Persons System) and coordinating a bilateral investigation with the agency of the missing person’s residence. Once this agency has exhausted all investigative leads, the case should be transferred to the agency that has jurisdiction over the missing person’s residence. This would include making the proper computer notation with the Department of Justice as to the agency responsible for the investigation. Any future leads should be routed to the agency with jurisdiction based on the missing person’s residence. It is imperative that all agencies involved in the missing person investigation work closely together, enhancing the probability of locating the missing person."
bbm

 

[10ofRods]

I don't find it to be particularly baffling, with the exception of not knowing where BT is now. IMHO.

Any thoughts on how she might have gone missing? I'd love to hear the ideas of the non-baffled (even if vaguely stated).

 

[crussell821]

Any thoughts on how she might have gone missing? I'd love to hear the ideas of the non-baffled (even if vaguely stated).

Vaguely stated, my gut is that she wandered in the wrong direction somehow and got lost and has since expired due to the elements. My belief is that the police also think this and that’s why there has been silence regarding this case. I do hope they resume searching and find her, but as with many people who go missing in the desert I’m not sure she’ll ever be found, or if she is it will be years in the future by some hiker. IMO

 

[iscaremyself]

Any thoughts on how she might have gone missing? I'd love to hear the ideas of the non-baffled (even if vaguely stated).

dbm

 

[rosesfromangels]

Vaguely stated, my gut is that she wandered in the wrong direction somehow and got lost and has since expired due to the elements. My belief is that the police also think this and that’s why there has been silence regarding this case. I do hope they resume searching and find her, but as with many people who go missing in the desert I’m not sure she’ll ever be found, or if she is it will be years in the future by some hiker. IMO

Agree 100%

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Vaguely stated, my gut is that she wandered in the wrong direction somehow and got lost and has since expired due to the elements. My belief is that the police also think this and that’s why there has been silence regarding this case. I do hope they resume searching and find her, but as with many people who go missing in the desert I’m not sure she’ll ever be found, or if she is it will be years in the future by some hiker. IMO

I'm literally thousands of miles from any desert so I have zero knowledge of desert activities. But do many people go missing in the desert if they are walking/hiking with someone else? Genuine question.

 

[Kapua]

I'm literally thousands of miles from any desert so I have zero knowledge of desert activities. But do many people go missing in the desert if they are walking/hiking with someone else? Genuine question.

"In the desert" covers a lot of territory. You could say "many people go missing in the desert" and that could be a true statement, depending upon your interpretation of the word "many".

However, BT was allegedly not on a long hike (rather a short walk), on a path, and she would likely have been able to spot the truck and RV from quite a distance, given the lack of tall vegetation and proximity to the road. That's a totally different scenario, IMHO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I'm literally thousands of miles from any desert so I have zero knowledge of desert activities. But do many people go missing in the desert if they are walking/hiking with someone else? Genuine question.

There are examples of two people hiking or walking out in the desert who went missing together (and whose bodies were later found in a crevasse) and of two people hiking above a promontory and one of them just disappearing in minutes (but not in the desert) discussed on previous threads.

Based on LE’s initial response to RT’s 911 call about Barbara’s disappearance (they held him in the patrol car for over 5 hours and gave him a polygraph test according to RT), it seems “unusual” IMO for this to have happened (two people walking together in the desert to become separated and for one of them to disappear without a trace), especially when RT said they were 5 to 10 minutes on a pathway from their vehicle parked by the side of the road.

That’s why RT explained to MSM in interviews early on he thought she must have been abducted and his daughter agreed on MSM that that was the only thing that made sense. MSM interviews are posted on Barbara’s Media Thread with both of their statements. No further statements have been made since late July on any differing opinions.

MOO

 

[HongKongPhooey]

There are examples of two people hiking or walking out in the desert who went missing together (and whose bodies were later found in a crevasse) and of two people hiking above a promontory and one of them just disappearing in minutes (but not in the desert) discussed on previous threads.

Based on LE’s initial response to RT’s 911 call about Barbara’s disappearance (they held him in the patrol car for over 5 hours and gave him a polygraph test according to RT), it seems “unusual” IMO for this to have happened (two people walking together in the desert to become separated and for one of them to disappear without a trace), especially when RT said they were 5 to 10 minutes on a pathway from their vehicle parked by the side of the road.

That’s why RT explained to MSM in interviews early on he thought she must have been abducted and his daughter agreed on MSM that that was the only thing that made sense. MSM interviews are posted on Barbara’s Media Thread with both of their statements. No further statements have been made since late July on any differing opinions.

MOO

MOO TOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

MOO TOO

MOOey TOOey HongKongPhooey!!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

MOOey TOOey HongKongPhooey!!

 

[MsBetsy]

Well, that's... hard to say, IYKWIM. But I'll take a wild stab at it. Two went out. One came back. And I subscribe to the principles of William of Occam.

MOO

I'm guessing that means that Barbara somehow got lost, wandered further from the trail, or got injured and could not survive long in those conditions and her body is likely out there somewhere?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I don’t think Barbara wandered off the path to their vehicle within 5 to 10 minutes walk to it. RT said she said she was going to their RV when she pulled ahead and rounded a corner and he never saw her again.

That’s where he says she said she was going. There was a path to follow that was at a higher elevation than the road where their RV was parked so she at least had a view of where she was walking towards during some if not all of the 5 to 10 minutes it took to get there.

LE responded to RT’s 911 call made at 3:26 pm, and when they arrived and set up later that day, spent the rest of that day into evening and the next 9 days searching for her with all available resources and found no evidence of her.

These facts indicate to me that she did not get lost in those 5-10 minutes on her way to the RV in broad daylight. Her husband said he searched for her for an hour or so before calling 911. LE searched for her thereafter for 9 days with SAR people, dogs, ATVs, cave and air search experts, and suspended the search after all that time saying there was no evidence of her.

I don’t think she got lost, that’s very hard to conceive of under the circumstances. She just vanished!

MOO

 

[LietKynes]

There are examples of two people hiking or walking out in the desert who went missing together (and whose bodies were later found in a crevasse) and of two people hiking above a promontory and one of them just disappearing in minutes (but not in the desert) discussed on previous threads.

Based on LE’s initial response to RT’s 911 call about Barbara’s disappearance (they held him in the patrol car for over 5 hours and gave him a polygraph test according to RT), it seems “unusual” IMO for this to have happened (two people walking together in the desert to become separated and for one of them to disappear without a trace), especially when RT said they were 5 to 10 minutes on a pathway from their vehicle parked by the side of the road.

That’s why RT explained to MSM in interviews early on he thought she must have been abducted and his daughter agreed on MSM that that was the only thing that made sense. MSM interviews are posted on Barbara’s Media Thread with both of their statements. No further statements have been made since late July on any differing opinions.

MOO

LBM

Thanks, I didn't realize his daughter agreed about the abduction.
Maybe that explains no further actions or pleas via the media to find Barbara ?
So it explains the silence.
A reward can sometimes get results , so it's a possibility.
There's still time to offer a reward to result in the abductor's capture.

Or has the media not allowed them any more interviews ?
Not everyone gets the coverage they're asking for, so there's always that.