CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #12

[MimosaMornings]

I’m guessing with the majority of her family out of the country, there was no one to do that for Barbara which makes it even sadder.
JMO

 

[katydid23]

IMO, I don't believe the official search effort for BT would have continued for at least 9-10 days if they did not believe she was in that area, on foot. Many see this as foul play, I just don't on this one.

The truth is none of us know the health of BT on that day or leading up to that day.

I believe she got turned around when they became separated and think it's possible during that time of (perhaps) extra exerted (stress/panic) energy, she could have absolutely had a medical emergency due to the heat. Maybe he assumed or she said she was heading straight back to the RV but instead detoured. Who knows.

I don't really believe RT when he said they were only separated for minutes before he started again on the trail after taking pics. I believe it was much longer (and he downplayed it) and they possibly could have fought or been impatient with each other before she headed off alone. Again, I don't think he harmed her.

Sadly, I believe the search will stay suspended for her unless new information comes forward. The family is on their own now with searches. I also believe the two sides of the families are split (hers vs. his) and it's probably a sad state of affairs behind the scenes.

JMO.

But wouldn't she have been found if she had a medical emergency and died on the trail?

It's hard to believe she was totally lost because she was within eyesight of the highway when she was last seen. JMO

 

[Jade]

IIRC, the reporter said that RT said "She might be in Vegas." We never hear him say it.

As to people dying rather suddenly of heat, even if they are experienced, I'll just leave this here:

Park officials: Grand Canyon death apparently heat related

As a Grand Canyon hiker myself, I've actually seen it. A fit man who was trail running thought he'd "cool down" at Indian Gardens (it was about 95-100 degrees, not even that hot, but he had been running from the bottom) and was talking to the ranger and some other people when he just flopped over. He didn't die, but he came close.

I've experienced it myself and had no clue I was already rising in core temperature (heat exhaustion can cause euphoria - it's actually an underlying reason why people die in the desert; it's beautiful, it's hot, you feel GREAT, and you don't realize that you're about to pass out).

If I hadn't been in the company of someone who knew me well and knew I was acting strangely (and touched my forehead), who knows if I would have noticed.

It was about 105 on the day Barbara went missing (at 2-4 pm, which is the alleged time she was out there, which our VI said LE confirmed to him). If it is true that she was wearing so little, and not carrying water, she might have been both dehydrated and hot.

Sure, she was experienced but as we get older, our bodies can react very differently to what we expect.

IMO



That link and your familiarity makes my point that sudden onset heat related collapses happen right on the trail.

Your own experience reinforces the trait for hikers that seems to be to keep slogging on the trail as intended whist disintegrating.

BT was with someone who knew her well and felt she was fit enough to head back ahead of him.

I would be more interested in seeing links that have a couple separated for moments and one somehow, despite severe environmental conditions and within sight of the shade canopy even if she couldn’t find a key, with her husband on her heels manages to disappear with no known trace into cactus, sun and oblivion.

Again Paul was alone not within minutes of having been in contact with his partner in a known trajectory and visible destination.

All imo

 

[K9Enzo]

But wouldn't she have been found if she had a medical emergency and died on the trail?

It's hard to believe she was totally lost because she was within eyesight of the highway when she was last seen. JMO

IMO - sounds simple w/ the exception of the people who purposely detour from their intended destination (to check something interesting out, use the bathroom and seek privacy, stop to rest, etc.), then can’t find their way back. Often times not realizing they are lost until they are really away from their intended trail, as an example. Then you might be dealing with your surroundings looking the same. Or she made it back to the RV and set out on foot again.

She was also without any water, food, shelter, cell phone, extra clothes, etc. This was a horrible scenario with chances of survival in that environment slim.

At the beginning, I did think perhaps she was hit by a vehicle (maybe she made it to the road but still away from the RV) and her body really projected, not that someone hit her and removed her body and took off.

I don’t at all blame the official search effort. Sometimes people are not found, searches are hard. IMO

There was also something the VI posted early on that got my attention but I have refrained from speculating in that direction because of site rules.

 

[trujac]

But wouldn't she have been found if she had a medical emergency and died on the trail?

It's hard to believe she was totally lost because she was within eyesight of the highway when she was last seen. JMO

yes, the hike distance from RT and BT's fifth wheel was 1 mile in, 1 mile out...BT left RT taking pictures roughly 1/2 mile from their RV...the key was still where they left it hidden when RT returned to their fifth wheel and couldn't find BT. It makes little sense to me that BT couldn't find their hidden key, and that she would just head off in the desert confused unless she had acute heat exhaustion. In which case, imo..she should have been found in close proximity to where they went for their walk. As MissingPiecesNetwork.Org explains, BT and RT were not novice desert walkers/hikers; they were acclimated to the desert, and hiked frequently in hot temperatures. Timeline and background information on BT:
Missing Pieces Network

 

[rosesfromangels]

yes, the hike distance from RT and BT's fifth wheel was 1 mile in, 1 mile out...BT left RT taking pictures roughly 1/2 mile from their RV...the key was still where they left it hidden when RT returned to their fifth wheel and couldn't find BT. It makes little sense to me that BT couldn't find their hidden key, and that she would just head off in the desert confused unless she had acute heat exhaustion. In which case, imo..she should have been found in close proximity to where they went for their walk. As MissingPiecesNetwork.Org explains, BT and RT were not novice desert walkers/hikers; they were acclimated to the desert, and hiked frequently in hot temperatures. Timeline and background information on BT:
Missing Pieces Network

Everything you post is logical and sensible. However, there are so many unknown factors that could have contributed to what we are guessing was likely heat stroke. The fact she was drinking alcohol was a contributor, and if she were taking any medications that would have played a role too. If you look at this article on heat stroke from the Mayo Clinic, it makes the case for Barb's disappearance much more understandable:
Heatstroke - Symptoms and causes

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[10ofRods]

But wouldn't she have been found if she had a medical emergency and died on the trail?

It's hard to believe she was totally lost because she was within eyesight of the highway when she was last seen. JMO

What makes us think she stayed on a trail? No one saw what Barbara did once she separated from RT. Presumably, she walked to the parking lot (across the highway) and was no longer on a trail. There is a dirt road, with many ways to go walking through the terrain, but no trail. There are also trail-like "traces" on both sides of the road

If she decided to head back toward where RT indicated he was, she could have gone back on the trail or she could have simply walked to where the dry creek met the road and taken that route - in which case she would have gone north of the main search area.

If she did have a medical emergency somewhere in the area and was not found by dark, then it's possible a big cat found her. At the time, wildlife biologists were noting a downturn in scavenging birds in Mojave National Preserve, so that typical clue might not have been available.

I've often wondered what SAR team used to scent the dogs for this search...

 

[10ofRods]

But wouldn't she have been found if she had a medical emergency and died on the trail?

It's hard to believe she was totally lost because she was within eyesight of the highway when she was last seen. JMO

A person doesn't have to be "totally lost" while having a medical emergency and still be hard to find. Sniffer dogs have a hard time with heat (they cannot pant and sniff at the same time). It was dry and breezy/windy out there - not ideal conditions for a search.

If a person passes out, they are going to go down where ever they are. I can imagine other scenarios than the one that RT gave, but they all have similar outcomes - which is that Barbara was alone in the desert, it was hot, she didn't come back, she had no water. We don't even know if there was still beer left in her cup.

There's still confusion about the timeline of events that day, that's for sure. Again, other people have been heavily searched for and not found until a year or two later, out there. What's always been odd to me is that RT didn't try and promote more private searching nor pursue his own idea about her having hitched a ride (or been taken) to Vegas. Kelbaker Road is definitely a route to Vegas from the Lake Havasu area. It's scenic, allows for large 5th wheels to find parking...

 

[10ofRods]

IMO

That link and your familiarity makes my point that sudden onset heat related collapses happen right on the trail.

Your own experience reinforces the trait for hikers that seems to be to keep slogging on the trail as intended whist disintegrating.

BT was with someone who knew her well and felt she was fit enough to head back ahead of him.

I would be more interested in seeing links that have a couple separated for moments and one somehow, despite severe environmental conditions and within sight of the shade canopy even if she couldn’t find a key, with her husband on her heels manages to disappear with no known trace into cactus, sun and oblivion.

Again Paul was alone not within minutes of having been in contact with his partner in a known trajectory and visible destination.

All imo

BT had parted from the one person she was with (as had I on the day I had heat stroke; it's a common denominator in heatstroke deaths - as with the lone woman hiker in Grand Canyon this week).

My traveling companions (except for one) couldn't tell I was seriously overheated. The family of a small boy who died in Grand Canyon while on Bright Angel Trail couldn't tell either - he was running and seemed perfectly fine, but went down and was dead right in front of their eyes.

If RT and BT had quarreled, there could be an additional layer of distress. One theory I have about certain wilderness disappearances is that emotional distress and arguments with companions sometimes or even frequently add a layer of risk when people go off in different directions.

Anyway, solo adventures in the desert are more likely to end in a mishap than adventures with a group or at least one other person; calmness is important. We heard that Barbara seemed "upset" at the doggie place that morning. RT doesn't say she was upset but that she wanted to go back to the trailer sooner than he wanted to go - and tried to.

One of our sleuthers (@cazador ) got the coordinates for the place RT says he last saw Barbara from the SBCSO and it was at an intersection between two trails. It does seem unlikely that she would get mixed up at that exact point - since the trailer would have been in view.

 

[anneg]

Regarding whether RT searched for BT, here is what I wrote in a post here back in January:

"The only thing we have heard about RT searching, as far as I know, was in a July 18 post by the VI, @dbdb11 (CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019).

The post includes a text from dbdb11's sister about her recollection of what she heard RT say when he called to let her father (Barbara's brother) and his family know that BT was missing. She recalled that RT said "he keeps returning to the spot where he lost her and overturning rocks and searching and searching hoping to find something. he was there the day he called us although i think he said he shouldn’t really go back there as protocol says he’s the first suspect." She does state at the beginning of her text that she doesn't have the sharpest memory, so RT's exact words to them were likely somewhat different."

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #12

 

[kay74]

Did they ever use drones to look for her?

 

[trujac]

Everything you post is logical and sensible. However, there are so many unknown factors that could have contributed to what we are guessing was likely heat stroke. The fact she was drinking alcohol was a contributor, and if she were taking any medications that would have played a role too. If you look at this article on heat stroke from the Mayo Clinic, it makes the case for Barb's disappearance much more understandable:
Heatstroke - Symptoms and causes

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes...I agree with you...experiencing heat exhaustion and/or heat stroke is a real possibility for anyone out in the desert during the summer. IMO, it is possible that BT suffered some type of health emergency that resulted in her dying within proximity to her RV and truck. She also could have been picked up by a passing motorist (willingly getting in the vehicle, or she was forced into the vehicle). I don't think RT had anything to do with her disappearance, other than not keeping a closer eye on her. It's seems earlier that morning BT was not happy about having to board her dog Lexi at the Vets, which might explain why she went on by herself back to the RV leaving her husband to take pictures by himself, or perhaps she wasn't feeling well at that time and was trying to quickly get back to the RV in order to get out of the heat. Typically in Arizona by 2-3pm during the summer the heat has reached its peak; imo, while out on their 2 mile round trip hike, RT would have known if BT was experiencing a medical related problem, and he wouldn't have stopped to take pictures. He would have walked back with BT to their RV. So, where does this leave everything?? My guess as to what possibly happened to BT...she had a medical emergency and managed to get tucked away deep in a rock crevice that searchers and their dogs couldn't see or smell, or she is not in the area having been picked up by someone.

 

[trujac]

Did they ever use drones to look for her?

Kay74...at this website they discuss everything that was used to search for Barbara, including "aerial support."
https://local.nixle.com/alert/7424064/

 

[kay74]

Kay74...at this website they discuss everything that was used to search for Barbara, including "aerial support."
https://local.nixle.com/alert/7424064/

~Thank You~

 

[Curiousobserver]

What makes us think she stayed on a trail? No one saw what Barbara did once she separated from RT. Presumably, she walked to the parking lot (across the highway) and was no longer on a trail. There is a dirt road, with many ways to go walking through the terrain, but no trail. There are also trail-like "traces" on both sides of the road

If she decided to head back toward where RT indicated he was, she could have gone back on the trail or she could have simply walked to where the dry creek met the road and taken that route - in which case she would have gone north of the main search area.

If she did have a medical emergency somewhere in the area and was not found by dark, then it's possible a big cat found her. At the time, wildlife biologists were noting a downturn in scavenging birds in Mojave National Preserve, so that typical clue might not have been available.

I've often wondered what SAR team used to scent the dogs for this search...

She could have had a stroke or a seizure and then wandered miles outside the search zone. Literally anything is possible after she and Robert separated. I mean it is far fetched, but she may have actually gotten into someone's car. We don't know anything about her actual personality.

My feeling is she got lost and succumbed.

I am hanging my hat on the fact that SAR searched for so long at that site- I have to believe they saw some evidence she was there.

No secrets are kept forever, if her husband did something we will eventually find out.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes...I agree with you...experiencing heat exhaustion and/or heat stroke is a real possibility for anyone out in the desert during the summer. IMO, it is possible that BT suffered some type of health emergency that resulted in her dying within proximity to her RV and truck. She also could have been picked up by a passing motorist (willingly getting in the vehicle, or she was forced into the vehicle). I don't think RT had anything to do with her disappearance, other than not keeping a closer eye on her. It's seems earlier that morning BT was not happy about having to board her dog Lexi at the Vets, which might explain why she went on by herself back to the RV leaving her husband to take pictures by himself, or perhaps she wasn't feeling well at that time and was trying to quickly get back to the RV in order to get out of the heat. Typically in Arizona by 2-3pm during the summer the heat has reached its peak; imo, while out on their 2 mile round trip hike, RT would have known if BT was experiencing a medical related problem, and he wouldn't have stopped to take pictures. He would have walked back with BT to their RV. So, where does this leave everything?? My guess as to what possibly happened to BT...she had a medical emergency and managed to get tucked away deep in a rock crevice that searchers and their dogs couldn't see or smell, or she is not in the area having been picked up by someone.

Very much agree with your post. The only additional speculation I would add is that it is likely she wandered off farther in an unsuspected direction due to confusion brought on by heat stroke. The idea that she tucked herself under a rock for cover sounds very possible.

Amateur opinion and speculation

ETA - Drones! Drones! We need Wings of Mercy Drone SAR out there

 

[HongKongPhooey]

She could have had a stroke or a seizure and then wandered miles outside the search zone. Literally anything is possible after she and Robert separated. I mean it is far fetched, but she may have actually gotten into someone's car. We don't know anything about her actual personality.

My feeling is she got lost and succumbed.

I am hanging my hat on the fact that SAR searched for so long at that site- I have to believe they saw some evidence she was there.

No secrets are kept forever, if her husband did something we will eventually find out.

The thing that worries me about this case, is that if RT does know something more he is an older man. Barb's brother already died without knowing what happened to her. I really hope we find out the truth one day.

 

[anneg]

The thing that worries me about this case, is that if RT does know something more he is a very elderly man. Barb's brother already died without knowing what happened to her. I really hope we find out the truth one day.

I do too. But I don't think RT is "very elderly"--IIRC, he is younger than I am!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I do too. But I don't think RT is "very elderly"--IIRC, he is younger than I am!

Oooops sorry Anneg you spring chicken you!! I thought he was late 70s for some reason. (My parents would want to debate that point come to think of it.... )

ETA I changed my original post

 

[anneg]

Oooops sorry Anneg you spring chicken you!! I thought he was late 70s for some reason. (My parents would want to debate that point come to think of it.... )

ETA I changed my original post

I've found that as I age, "elderly" remains "older than me."

When my mother was well up in her 80s she was highly incensed when she heard some young women refer to her as "a little old lady"---which, of course, she was!