CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

[squareandrabbet]

What signs would have to be found at the scene if Barbara was abducted?

Foot, dragging, etc. tracks, indicating a scuffle? Tire tracks from another's car?

I agree that as-described, if true, she wasn't running around with much in the way that she could use as a Hansel-and-Gretel breadcrumb trail; but the ground under her feet is another matter.

 

[alucardsdream]

Say what? I will tell you that when I was in a situation involving intense fear because of a life-threatening situation, my extremities DID NOT go limp.

To the contrary, my senses were on high alert and every move I made was made to ensure my survival - just like in Gavin Debecker's book "The Gift of Fear".

An animal rose up within me and kept me alive, did things that I don't think I would have been capable of doing if my life had not been endangered.

Someone who claims "Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear" has never been in a life-threatening situation, IMO.

I got mugged at gunpoint during a semester abroad in Kenya...I literally dropped everything I was holding and fell to my knees, scared me half to death. But I think everyone acts differently in situations like that. I'm sure some people would tense up and get aggressive. I just feel lucky that I didn't wet myself.

 

[MassGuy]

Not MassGuy but how about this:

This Is Your Body on Fear

Ok. So say she had a reaction that made her tense up (like people on airplanes gripping the armrest in turbulence), then she held on to her beer.

That doesn’t make kidnapping any more likely though.

 

[PaulR]

Foot, dragging, etc. tracks, indicating a scuffle? Tire tracks from another's car?

I agree that as-described, if true, she wasn't running around with much in the way that she could use as a Hansel-and-Gretel breadcrumb trail; but the ground under her feet is another matter.

One can be abducted without an obvious scuffle on the ground. An example would be hitchhikers who were picked up and then murdered.

 

[Steelslady]

That's the difference between us then.

Just because something is the most probable doesn't mean it's what actually happened.

I need more information before going towards a single direction in this case. JMO

So, what is your opinion on what happened?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Thank You. Of course they don't.

The claim that "Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear" is an opinion, and not a fact based on science.

I've heard the term "fight of flight" when people are faced with dangerous situations.

Sometimes neither are the best option for survival.
JMO

 

[MassGuy]

One can be abducted without an obvious scuffle on the ground. An example would be hitchhikers who were picked up and then murdered.

Of course they can.

So you think the most likely scenario is that this woman was abducted by some random person who just happened upon her during the brief time she was out of view of her husband?

 

[Steelslady]

We can join our collective power.

I know many of you didn't grow up learning/knowing about it, but please know that our love has the power to alter the course of projected trajectories.

When we join our collective power, when we connect our thoughts, we can change a projected trajectory.

Not true, sorry. There wouldn't be any deceased missing people out there, if this was the case.

 

[alucardsdream]

So, what is your opinion on what happened?

Honestly, at this point the best case scenario would be an abduction, because it would mean she could still be alive. If she's out there in the desert, she doesn't have a chance. Foul play or not, there's no way she could have survived very long.

 

[MassGuy]

I've heard the term "fight of flight" when people are faced with dangerous situations.

Sometimes neither are the best option for survival.
JMO

Unfortunately, you don’t generally have much control over the matter.

Unless you are trained for that sort of thing.

 

[sorrell skye]

I got mugged at gunpoint during a semester abroad in Kenya...I literally dropped everything I was holding and fell to my knees, scared me half to death. But I think everyone acts differently in situations like that. I'm sure some people would tense up and get aggressive. I just feel lucky that I didn't wet myself.

It is NOT a scientific fact, as MassGuy stated "Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear."

Sometimes, extremities tense up and one runs for their damn lives.

Anecdotal experiences are not scientific evidence.

 

[Tripod]

What hope I did have for Barb's rescue lessened and lessened, and now stands at zero. My confidence in the original story followed the same path, and I hate that.

I suppose there could be a less than 1% chance someone came along on an ATV, rather than a vehicle passing on the highway, but.....

I'm keeping Barb's loved ones, especially her ill brother, in my prayers. I very much wish I had something brilliant to add here, but there's only that anguished, sinking feeling that must be oh-s0-much worse for a MP's loved ones.

Many good questions and comments here, as usual- I appreciate all of them.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

So, what is your opinion on what happened?

I don't have a single theory.

Abduction is one.

Never made it out there in the first place is another.

Killed for some unknown reason and buried out in the desert is possible.

JMO

 

[alucardsdream]

Dropping what you were holding doesn't equate to your extremities going limp.

Did you fall to the ground - as in, did your legs give way beneath you and did you fall to the ground?

It is NOT a scientific fact, as MassGuy stated "Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear."

My knees buckled and I dropped, and I was shaky for a couple hours. But like I said, everyone reacts differently. I'm not claiming it's a scientific fact, just saying how my experience went.

 

[GordianKnot]

I have no doubt that they’re way ahead of us. They know what they’re dealing with.

Kidnapping makes absolutely no sense, even if there was some evidence to that effect.

No one gets that lucky, not with the elements we have here.

LE is way, waaaaaay ahead of us on this one. They have given away absolutely nothing here.

To me, that's extremely telling.

The one thing LE did come right out and say though was that they don't believe BT was abducted.

For them to say that so definitively, to me indicates that they have some sort of evidence pointing toward some other scenario.

Regardless, though, the odds of BT having been taken by an abductor with nefarious intentions who happened to be driving past just as she was crossing the highway are absolutely astronomical.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

My knees buckled and I dropped, and I was shaky for a couple hours. But like I said, everyone reacts differently. I'm not claiming it's a scientific fact, just saying how my experience went.

I’m not saying everyone does it either, it’s simply a well documented reaction, as you can attest.

Some people hold on for dear life, others freeze and go limp.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Unfortunately, you don’t generally have much control over the matter.

Unless you are trained for that sort of thing.

Yes. And I doubt that Barbara was trained in hand to hand combat where she could take on an armed person.

That leaves abduction open for me. JMO

 

[PaulR]

So you think the most likely scenario is that this woman was abducted by some random person who just happened upon her during the brief time she was out of view of her husband?

A few days ago, I thought the idea of the Fowler/Deese and McLeon/Schmegelsky cases in BC being linked was unlikely given the circumstances.

I may be eating crow on that statement soon.

 

[Micheline]

If Barbara was alive when RT last saw her (and RT isn't responsible for her disappearance) I will continue to hope for her life.

If Barbara is trying to survive in the desert, may Manna from heaven rain down upon her.

May the rains come to give her drink.

May she find shelter from the sun.

If she is still alive, may she know that help is on the way.

Let us agree upon this. So mote it be with all who agree.

Seriously?

 

[GordianKnot]

I don't have a single theory.

Abduction is one.

Never made it out there in the first place is another.

Killed for some unknown reason and buried out in the desert is possible.

JMO

Here's the thing about theories, though:

They require proof.

There is no proof that she has been abducted.

There is no proof that she was even in that location.

So what theory then makes sense?

I would argue it's the theory that she was never there that makes the most sense.

Theoretically, if BT was never there, it logically follows that she has met with foul play.

JMO.