CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

[kay74]

I will say again that I see people hiking in the Mojave (and elsewhere) in flip flops, bikini tops, shirtless (for men, all the time). I don't hike in a bikini (!) but I do hike in shorts and tank tops and make a major investment in sunscreen, as does everyone I know. I often wear a cap to shade my face, just as Barbara Thomas did.

It can be 115F in Los Angeles and people will be jogging dressed really scantily. While more humid than the Mojave, it's definitely part of SoCal culture to go to the beach, the local park - and yes, the desert, and wear as little clothing as possible. I've seen people hiking Grand Canyon, also, dressed in bikini tops and shorts (and it gets really hot at the bottom).

Not many stinging insects in Joshua Tree or the Mojave NP (scorpions and snakes, though, but covering up your body isn't going to help there). I've never seen a gnat or a mosquito either place. Simply too dry. If you start seeing flies/horse flies, then you're near some sort of water or something (grazing spot). But no one grazes anything in Mojave NP or nearby. Too dry. Many places truly are just dry sand.

Again, the heat in Mojave NP has been going up to around 100F each day, whereas in the place the Thomases live, it's been 116-118F. 100F is hot but, to me, it's not that hot. 118 is definitely hot. They are definitely part of a subculture of retirees living in Laughlin, Bullhead, Havazu, whose life revolves around adaptation to hot weather.

Been to Lake Havasu when temps reached 117. Like I said earlier, I could not get out of the car, same at Hoover Dam. A furnace.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I think this is very likely, at least as an initial hypothesis (they were searching quite further away yesterday - to the north, where there are some caves which I do not believe she could have known about as a non-local and without a phone on her). But, locals would know about them.

They weren't very far from the I-40 and Kelbaker road is a short cut to Vegas.

In one of the first posts by the VI, RT supposedly said he may have spent about an hour after he realized she wasn't at the trailer looking around for her, including at some nearby caves they were both familiar with.

Presumably in the 8 days of searching by LE with experienced people from the SBC search and rescue crew, scent dogs, helicopters, and ATVs, the whole area, including the caves RT first mentioned, would have been thoroughly searched. Hopefully they've gathered some evidence pointing to her whereabouts, and will let her family known soon. IMO

Edited: To replace "MSM" with "posts by the VI"

 

[10ofRods]

The overnight lows out that way were in the mid to upper 80's.

I am confused about where she actually went missing. First, it sounded and looked like Kelso Dunes (and I think that's where they're still looking). But then they said intersection of Kelbaker and Hidden Hill - but now that I look at it, maybe that's just the staging area for the search. 911 call was really helpful - I'm thinking it was Kelso Dunes. Early on, he said "stopped to take a picture of the lake" which I thought was really weird, but there is a large dry lake bed just off the road they would have been walking.

You can visit Kelbaker Road on google maps and find the intersection with Kelso Dunes Road (or with Hidden Hill, same terrain). No cactus, very dry, mostly creosote, rabbitbrush, stuff like that.

If they were in the Kelso Dunes area, then the caves and mineshafts are nearby, but that would presume that either someone kidnapped her and threw her in one, or she (crazily) walked off the dirt and paved roads in some new random direction rather than staying at the RV.

 

[MizStery]

See, that's the thing. I don't trust RT's account of the day, whatever he might have told LE. He is telling the public his polygraph results were deceptive per what he says LE told him. His wife is gone and there is possibly suspicious dealings with him as I understand it. My ears are certainly perked up! I'm not sure what to think right now, but I'm not going to simply believe the last admitted known person to see her before she vanished. Something is unknown here and I'm quite disturbed by it.

It is good kkdj no matter what thread I’m on to read your excellent posts.

Early this morning when I initially read the affidavit I thought of blackmail. It would answer so many of our questions.

This is my rambling on the affidavit. Our ‘verified poster’ has not further elaborated about the 34 year old affidavit. We are left to mull the crumb he gave us and my mind is in overdrive. This is just my theory.

MOO

 

[Handsome Sailor]

After seeing that lonely concrete road snaking thru the Mojave, I doubt there was anyone out there that time of day.

 

[MsBetsy]

Since her son lives in Indiana, I wonder if that is where she is originally from. Was it mentioned how long RT and BT were married? I don't understand her husband not contacting her son right away. I wonder if they are on the outs with each other.

It sounds like they have been together for at least 15 years, since his nephew said he visited with them around that time.
It does seem strange that he did not contact her son right away.

From what I understand, her husband is estranged from his brother, yet the brother gets along with Barbara and she was getting ready to travel to see him as he is very ill.
I wonder if they argued about that or if that was a source of tension between them. Imo

 

[byo]

RT's expression @ 2:00-01 confuses me.

 

[PommyMommy]

Reposting - from JUL 17
Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'
They were on their way back to the camper when Bob said his wife started pulling ahead. He told her he wanted to take a picture of a rock formation and as he put his camera away, he saw her rounding a corner.

 

[kkdj]

It sounds like they have been together for at least 15 years, since his nephew said he visited with them around that time.
It does seem strange that he did not contact her son right away.

From what I understand, her husband is estranged from his brother, yet the brother gets along with Barbara and she was getting ready to travel to see him as he is very ill.
I wonder if they argued about that or if that was a source of tension between them. Imo

My understanding is that her brother was/is estranged from her other brother, and no relation to RT.
Heck! I don't even know it RT has a brother!
I believe it is her brother that is ill and she was going to go visit him in Hong Kong.

 

[Kapua]

Since their camper was on an almost deserted road, there could have been someone there burglarizing it! She might have come upon them and was abducted.

I want to know how busy this road is at this time of the year, typically.

The thing about burglars is, for the most part they just want to steal your stuff and sell it. They're really not interested in abducting or killing people. Yes, I am sure there are exceptions. However, with no sign of a break in or anything missing, I am going to vote 'highly unlikely' on burglary.

Abduction - hmmm. What would be a motive for abduction? Ransom? Blackmail? Obsessed individual? Nutcase? What makes abduction unlikely IMHO is the timing. If RT's account is accurate, BT was not gone from his sight long, and was within ~1/2 mile of the RV. The abductor had to have happened upon her at precisely the moment they were separated. Again, highly unlikely IMHO, but not beyond the realm of possibility IF there was a motive. Many of us were surprised by the McStay case.

And going back to square one, I want to see proof that BT was ever there that day. Did anyone see her leave? Did they stop for gas? MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

In one of the first MSM articles, RT says he may have spent about an hour after he realized she wasn't at the trailer looking around for her, including at some nearby caves they were both familiar with.

Presumably in the 8 days of searching by LE with experienced people from the SBC search and rescue crew, scent dogs, helicopters, and ATVs, the whole area, including the caves RT first mentioned, would have been thoroughly searched. Hopefully they've gathered some evidence pointing to her whereabouts, and will let her family known soon. IMO

This came from our VI, dbdb11. Google "Barbara Thomas" "caves" and the only thing related to this case that comes up is Websleuths. I remember that because it bothered me that RT didn't mention caves in either interview nor has it been reported by MSM. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

They left their home Friday morning to go camping. They pulled over and parked along the side of a road to take about a 2-mile hike. They were hiking about 2:30 p.m. although we don't know when they began the hike. I'd have to track down the dispatch log from thread #1 but I think RT called 911 around 3:26 p.m. to report BT missing. MOO

ETA: Dispatch Call Log – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department

7/12/2019 3:26:24 PM CR CR191930018 CRR1900230 MISPER NAT 936** HIDDEN HILLS RD, KEL

Thanks!
I'm confused about the time because I thought the VI stated that the husband told him he searched himself for awhile and then called for help at 12:00. Imo

 

[10ofRods]

In one of the first MSM articles, RT says he may have spent about an hour after he realized she wasn't at the trailer looking around for her, including at some nearby caves they were both familiar with.

Presumably in the 8 days of searching by LE with experienced people from the SBC search and rescue crew, scent dogs, helicopters, and ATVs, the whole area, including the caves RT first mentioned, would have been thoroughly searched. Hopefully they've gathered some evidence pointing to her whereabouts, and will let her family known soon. IMO

Thank you for that - yes, that's way more consistent with being near Kelso Dunes. So, they had been to nearly that exact spot before. If she couldn't find the key to the RV, maybe she went to the caves. He must have thought it was possible. This is also consistent with early reports that they were searching east of Kelbacker.

Maybe she was looking for places with interesting rocks (near mineshafts, near caves).

Thing is, people who are professional rockhounds can be very protective of those sites and there have been a few stories about armed rockhounds chasing people out of their territory. I wanted to go rock hunting out that way but was discouraged by my local rockhound group. Lots of geodes, even opals. While it is illegal to collect minerals in the preserve, people show themselves doing so on youtube (it used not to be illegal...became illegal only in 2016).

 

[PommyMommy]

The overnight lows out that way were in the mid to upper 80's.

I am confused about where she actually went missing. First, it sounded and looked like Kelso Dunes (and I think that's where they're still looking). But then they said intersection of Kelbaker and Hidden Hill - but now that I look at it, maybe that's just the staging area for the search. 911 call was really helpful - I'm thinking it was Kelso Dunes. Early on, he said "stopped to take a picture of the lake" which I thought was really weird, but there is a large dry lake bed just off the road they would have been walking.

You can visit Kelbaker Road on google maps and find the intersection with Kelso Dunes Road (or with Hidden Hill, same terrain). No cactus, very dry, mostly creosote, rabbitbrush, stuff like that.

If they were in the Kelso Dunes area, then the caves and mineshafts are nearby, but that would presume that either someone kidnapped her and threw her in one, or she (crazily) walked off the dirt and paved roads in some new random direction rather than staying at the RV.

This is the second time I've seen mention of a lake. I don't remember if you were the one who mentioned it before or if it was someone else. Can you link to the source, please? What I remember is that he stopped to take a picture of a rock formation. MOO

 

[Micheline]

RT's expression @ 2:00-01 confuses me.

What kind of corners are there in the middle of the dessert?

 

[Razz]

Does anyone know if there is a need for the road to be cleared of sand on occasion?

 

[MsBetsy]

My understanding is that her brother was/is estranged from her other brother, and no relation to RT.
Heck! I don't even know it RT has a brother!
I believe it is her brother that is ill and she was going to go visit him in Hong Kong.

Oh, ok, I wasn't sure whose brother was whose by that post. I thought the husband was estranged from one of the brothers, who's ever brother it is. Imo

 

[PommyMommy]

It sounds like they have been together for at least 15 years, since his nephew said he visited with them around that time.
It does seem strange that he did not contact her son right away.

From what I understand, her husband is estranged from his brother, yet the brother gets along with Barbara and she was getting ready to travel to see him as he is very ill.
I wonder if they argued about that or if that was a source of tension between them. Imo

No, it's not RT's brother who she was going to see - it is her brother. Barbara has two brothers and the brothers are estranged. MOO

i dont know who youre speaking of, and am also not on facebook for over a decade.

barb has two brothers, fairly estranged. have met my cousins once as a small child. i think my uncles side has divorced once lr twice and may have more cousins i dont even know about. on my dads side, we've been at home in hk for many years, and though i've visited rob and barb on trips back to states, have never tried to reach out to cousins.

can confirm barb and rob have been together since 2006 at least, though i dont know how long married.

on cellphone atm.. about to.call robs fam for any updates, but there are some questions i want to ask which just dont feel appropriate given my distance from everything.goin on abd the things they all must be going.through.

thanks again all

to clarify the brothers are estranged. barb and my father have always been on great terms. my father and his brother have not. i am unsure of barbs relationship with her other brother.

there is something i just learned and i feel is relevant. nobody informed barbs son, and barb and her son, though living far apart, were not at all estranged. im stunned robbie or his fam would not have reached out to barbs son.

barbs son is from a much older relationship, no relationship to robbie. as i understand he learned about all this from the police, who found his number on her phone... i have not verified this.with her son and am trying to get hold of him.

agree with others about police silence. confused generally over here.

my sister was.present when robbie called my father, and heard the convo on speaker. ive asked her to write down what she remembers... will share shortly

edit: on cell phone again.... cant bother with punctuation etc on these tiny buttons. sorry

 

[PaulR]

What kind of corners are there in the middle of the dessert?

Desert means dry, not flat.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Thank you for that - yes, that's way more consistent with being near Kelso Dunes. So, they had been to nearly that exact spot before. If she couldn't find the key to the RV, maybe she went to the caves. He must have thought it was possible. This is also consistent with early reports that they were searching east of Kelbacker.

Maybe she was looking for places with interesting rocks (near mineshafts, near caves).

Thing is, people who are professional rockhounds can be very protective of those sites and there have been a few stories about armed rockhounds chasing people out of their territory. I wanted to go rock hunting out that way but was discouraged by my local rockhound group. Lots of geodes, even opals. While it is illegal to collect minerals in the preserve, people show themselves doing so on youtube (it used not to be illegal...became illegal only in 2016).

The part about there being caves in the area that they both were 'familiar with' or 'knew about' came from the verified insider, not MSM as I stated above (edited). Therefore, this was told by RT to his wife's family in HK over the phone. MOO.