CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

[rosesfromangels]

Saturday it is predicted to be 117F in Bullhead City area. I was in Phoenix for two days last week when it hit 115F and I literally felt like I was expiring just walking short distances outdoors. The feeling can not be adequately described, but I felt like a little clay pot in a kiln. It was dreadful.
Our bikini lady couldn't have lasted long, even if she is acclimated.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree. I have camped in the area but never in July. It’s possible that they were stopping there on their way somewhere else, but it seems like a strange place to stop at that time of day.

One of the articles I read said they were taking a trip for the weekend to the desert when they decided to stop and take a walk and look at the rock formations. Imo

 

[10ofRods]

I do deserts but only near rivers and lakes. I need to be able to cool down. I am familiar with the area they are searching for her. Personally, I would never go out there on a hot July or August afternoon, but to each their own. I just keep wondering, why there? What was the draw? Were they en route to somewhere else and just made a short stop? Very odd to me.

Oh, it's a crazy amazing place if you like geology and rocks! Those boulders where the SAR people are? I want to go and my husband wants to go. He goes to places like that (to climb) all the time. I have never climbed, but I have scrambled and boulder-hopped and love it.

I grew up in a hot part of California, up what was called a "canyon." Near a mostly dry creek. I've lived on the west mesa near Albuquerque (same type of vegetation as shown in the search photos - only the search photos have way more variety and flowers - it's an amazing area they were walking through!)

If you like deserts. I'm not a strong swimmer, so I don't seek out water experiences.

It's the shortcut road from where they live to Vegas. It's heavily traveled by Southern Californians seeking a more scenic way (and less harrowing way) to get to Vegas.

Nothing at all odd about it. I know people who camp out there frequently (it's their thing) or at other desert places without nearby water (always fewer people, that in and of itself is a huge draw).

 

[MsBetsy]

Nah, I see a dog circling back to the handler, probably as instructed. I also see a dog super eager to work. Of course only that handler can speak to their dogs body language and indications of interest. IMO

Yeah, I'm not sure what it looks like when a dog picks up a scent and alerts on it, but it sure looked like that gold dog was following a specific scent. Imo

 

[HopeForTheBest]

Saturday it is predicted to be 117F in Bullhead City area. I was in Phoenix for two days last week when it hit 115F and I literally felt like I was expiring just walking short distances outdoors. The feeling can not be adequately described, but I felt like a little clay pot in a kiln. It was dreadful.
Our bikini lady couldn't have lasted long, even if she is acclimated.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I know what you mean about the peril of that heat and especially without a lot of water, etc. to drink. I will say that I’ve spent time in AZ with 110-degree weather and felt hot but not nearly as miserable as when I then left there and went to someplace humid in the high eighties like in the Midwest. Dry heat or not, though, there’s no question about the danger in the desert there with no water. MOO.

 

[Tealgrove]

Saturday it is predicted to be 117F in Bullhead City area. I was in Phoenix for two days last week when it hit 115F and I literally felt like I was expiring just walking short distances outdoors. The feeling can not be adequately described, but I felt like a little clay pot in a kiln. It was dreadful.
Our bikini lady couldn't have lasted long, even if she is acclimated.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I was in Las Vegas in August once. ONCE! The heat was unbearable. I believe it was 110 for several days in a row. Your analogy of feeling like being in a kiln is perfect. I was literally sapped of energy and it was shocking. I actually had a hard time breathing. I have experienced what you have described which is why I am so concerned for BT. I'm just not inclined to believe that she can survive this. I don't think I could.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

I have no strong opinions on any of this; I’m just throwing out some thoughts that might help someone in further brainstorming—or not. All MOO.

First, I am quite failing to understand why what she was wearing matters so much and I’m NOT being hateful. I’m just thinking that there doesn’t seem to be a crowd of people out there in the desert so anyone wearing anything will be noticeable. She is a striking woman in all the photos I saw with, based on what I recall, seemingly distinct, elegant, facial bone structure so it doesn’t seem like she’d be easily mistaken regardless of what she’s wearing even if she did take off down the road.

Next, and I am again NOT being rude or argumentative but ever heard the “When I am old (not saying 69 is old), I shall wear purple” red-hat poem/saying? When I am 69, I hope I wear whatever it is I feel like wearing if I’m in a place where there’s no one much to see me. MOO. Even or maybe especially if it’s scorchingly hot. I don’t know this lady but I can hear some people I know and my future self saying, “I’m 69 and if I want to walk around the desert in a bikini with a beer, I’m going to do it.” Again: I’m not being snide; it’s just a fact. It’s why older women (meaning over 85 maybe) are so refreshing for the world IMHO; at 69, she might be moving toward her own sense of self. MOO.

On the question of the beer can or beverage container, etc., it seems to me that if she did fall into an old mine shaft or whatever, whatever she was holding probably went down the mine or hole or canyon with her.

On the language and words her husband used, it always seems to me that knowing if something is odd like the use of “I” rather than “we” or vice verse requires knowing how the person usually speaks. I hate saying this but many older male relatives of mine DO, unfortunately IMHO, talk about their wives (or daughters, or nieces) in that ownership/authoritative type of way. I don’t think it always means a person is a bully, etc.; I don’t care for it but I see those kinds of terms used by some men who grew up in a time when it was common for where they lived, etc. At the same time, it might indeed indicate more in a given individual. MOO.

Just a few thoughts; I’m not arguing for any likely outcome because IMHO, surprising things happen every day like the man found behind a cooler after years. I just don’t know. I just hope for the best along with you all.

The comments about her clothing are not because people are prudish about her wearing a bikini/bra top, but because that kind of clothing doesn't offer protection from the sun and sand in the location where she was walking.

jmo

 

[10ofRods]

Saturday it is predicted to be 117F in Bullhead City area. I was in Phoenix for two days last week when it hit 115F and I literally felt like I was expiring just walking short distances outdoors. The feeling can not be adequately described, but I felt like a little clay pot in a kiln. It was dreadful.
Our bikini lady couldn't have lasted long, even if she is acclimated.

Amateur opinion and speculation

True - but it would have been cooler in Mojave NP. High today in 29 Palms/Amboy was only 100F. It was that hot in the back part of my house today.

As I type, it's about 93 in Amboy (not too far from where they were) and 109 in Bullhead (but feels like 113). It's monsoon season (just starting) so there are quite a few clouds out in the Mojave, but it will take them some time to find a way into the very hot depression that is Lake Mojave/Bullhead. It's 500' above sea level - it was 2000' where Barbara went missing, more or less. So, many people from Lake Havasu, Lake Mojave, Bullhead, Henderson, even Vegas and Laughlin...head to the high desert. The mountainous desert is even cooler, but very impacted by tourism, hard to find a last minute spot.

It's also (way) more humid in Bullhead, so from my perspective, it's hellish there. I will never again set foot in Bullhead if I can help it. But the Mojave Preserve is beautiful (I am tempted to go in late June next year - but...its desolate nature does put me off).

I think Robert Thomas rightfully fears "abduction" or "bad people" out there. There may not be a lot of it, but it's certainly an issue and help is not close. At all. I would never go off by myself near a road out there. At our local hiking spots, we're aware that many people have weapons (most people have them?) and it does put a damper on casual hiking.

 

[Tealgrove]

Yeah, I'm not sure what it looks like when a dog picks up a scent and alerts on it, but it sure looked like that gold dog was following a specific scent. Imo

The problem is we don't know if that was a tracking dog or a cadaver dog. They are trained differently. From what I saw, I'm not sure they were hitting on anything. I saw dogs that wanted to work and were eager but from the short clip, I didn't see a dog "follow" a track or alert on a scent. They were trying hard though. It's got to be hot work for them as well. I'm not sure how long they could have the dogs working at any given time or even how effective they would be in extreme heat.

I've mentioned this before in other threads. Dogs have to keep their mouths closed to smell. If they are hot and panting, their scenting ability is not great.

With the rains coming, as some other posters have mentioned, it will be really hard for the dogs to come up with a track now. Quite frankly, if they haven't picked up her scent now, they're not going to.

I do scent work with my retrievers so I do have some knowledge.

MOO

 

[muddlehead]

Just that jumble of boulders that they were searching yesterday could take considerable time to sort through (so many crannies). That presumes that she, after leaving her husband because she wanted to go to the RV, instead got off trail and headed (back) to the rocks (passing where he was?) or went on to distant rocks past their RV (but they seem to be searching near the trail to the Granite Hills, which is the walk I assume they took).

So...she'd have to be really disoriented (or pissed off) to have taken off for those rocks instead of just going back to the RV. There's enough scrub and enough bends in that dirt road/trail that he could have lost sight of her quickly. He just doesn't seem to ever say how long he stayed out there photographing rocks.

Those of you who have been following missing person stories closely for longer than me...what's your take on his video appearance(s)? Why isn't he at a campground closer to where his wife was lost? If LE considers him a POI (as he seems to say) they would ban him from the search area. Is it possible he was told to go home and remain in contact? Are there other missing persons cases like this one?

My take, for one, is neutral on RT's video interviews. My take is always the same on everyone in these cases. Why the heck are you on TV talking about a missing loved one? It's a classic no win situation.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

The comments about her clothing are not because people are prudish about her wearing a bikini/bra top, but because that kind of clothing doesn't offer protection from the sun and sand in the location where she was walking.

jmo

Oh, I know. I just meant that the idea of someone reportedly wearing a bikini or pajamas or whatever doesn’t seem to indicate foul play to me —IMHO.

 

[TristanP]

It was as far as I'm concerned. Maybe SBCSO has seen speculation based on the SP case on their SM page or something. Who knows.

Not from LE. VI's opinion:

Now that I think about it, Sheryl Powell wasn’t found until a few days later, so the “man with a knife” scenario wasn’t even known when Barbara went missing. So Barbara’s husband *couldn’t* have been speculating about her being abducted because of what happened to SP at that point!

 

[muddlehead]

JUL 22, 2019
California police say missing hiker who vanished 'in her bikini' was NOT abducted | Daily Mail Online
[...]

'We don't think she was abducted. It's a very remote area. There's no evidence to suggest she was abducted,' spokeswoman Jodi Miller told DailyMail.com.

The notion that Barbara may have been abducted became public after a different hiker, Shirley Powell, who was missing for days in a different national park 300 miles away, was rescued. After being found, she described being chased by a knife-wielding man.

But sheriffs say it is unlikely the same man she described has gone after Barbara.

'When that information started coming out about [the other woman], that's what created the speculation [that Barbara had been abducted] but our investigation does not indicate any signs that she was abducted,' Miller said.




Huh? RT said she may have been abducted.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

Seriously and probably LE already has done this since someone noted them looking around boulders, I’d see if some local geologist or rock enthusiast had any thoughts about must-see or especially hazardous rock sites there. MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

I was in Las Vegas in August once. ONCE! The heat was unbearable. I believe it was 110 for several days in a row. Your analogy of feeling like being in a kiln is perfect. I was literally sapped of energy and it was shocking. I actually had a hard time breathing. I have experienced what you have described which is why I am so concerned for BT. I'm just not inclined to believe that she can survive this. I don't think I could.

MOO

Yeah, if you find 110 in Vegas unbearable, you'd hate Bullhead or Havasu. With a passion. Or the San Fernando Valley in August/September or the Salton Sea area. I can enjoy 110 in Vegas if there's a pool nearby (it's so dry).

But...no one can survive it without food and water. She didn't intend to be out there for long, at all, that much is clear.

My daughter got severe heat stroke out that way 8 months ago. Lost consciousness. Was drinking water and beer, but was not out in the middle of nowhere, thank goodness (although seriously, she really wasn't careful about heat, obviously - she's 30). She said one of her last thoughts before fainting was "Gosh, I haven't even had that much beer!" She's not keen on going back there, at all.

 

[HopeForTheBest]

Yeah, if you find 110 in Vegas unbearable, you'd hate Bullhead or Havasu. With a passion. Or the San Fernando Valley in August/September or the Salton Sea area. I can enjoy 110 in Vegas if there's a pool nearby (it's so dry).

But...no one can survive it without food and water. She didn't intend to be out there for long, at all, that much is clear.

My daughter got severe heat stroke out that way 8 months ago. Lost consciousness. Was drinking water and beer, but was not out in the middle of nowhere, thank goodness (although seriously, she really wasn't careful about heat, obviously - she's 30). She said one of her last thoughts before fainting was "Gosh, I haven't even had that much beer!" She's not keen on going back there, at all.

Glad she’s ok!

 

[kay74]

True - but it would have been cooler in Mojave NP. High today in 29 Palms/Amboy was only 100F. It was that hot in the back part of my house today.

As I type, it's about 93 in Amboy (not too far from where they were) and 109 in Bullhead (but feels like 113). It's monsoon season (just starting) so there are quite a few clouds out in the Mojave, but it will take them some time to find a way into the very hot depression that is Lake Mojave/Bullhead. It's 500' above sea level - it was 2000' where Barbara went missing, more or less. So, many people from Lake Havasu, Lake Mojave, Bullhead, Henderson, even Vegas and Laughlin...head to the high desert. The mountainous desert is even cooler, but very impacted by tourism, hard to find a last minute spot.

It's also (way) more humid in Bullhead, so from my perspective, it's hellish there. I will never again set foot in Bullhead if I can help it. But the Mojave Preserve is beautiful (I am tempted to go in late June next year - but...its desolate nature does put me off).

I think Robert Thomas rightfully fears "abduction" or "bad people" out there. There may not be a lot of it, but it's certainly an issue and help is not close. At all. I would never go off by myself near a road out there. At our local hiking spots, we're aware that many people have weapons (most people have them?) and it does put a damper on casual hiking.

I'm leaning toward abduction.

 

[mrstfs]

DBM

 

[Usd2bfun]

I live in the Mojave Desert . We are on a mesa that is between Joshua tree and Lucerne Valley . We have mountain lions. We have bob cats. We have deer.. but, they usually stay closer to the hilly areas. We also sit on the back end of Big Bear.. so we get an occasional Black Bear. I don't know if the animals are the same in the particular area that she went missing from.

It must be so pretty there! Lots of great star gazing I imagine. I live in silver lakes. Not nearly as fetching as your neck of the woods I imagine

 

[Snoopster]

Oh, it's a crazy amazing place if you like geology and rocks! Those boulders where the SAR people are? I want to go and my husband wants to go. He goes to places like that (to climb) all the time. I have never climbed, but I have scrambled and boulder-hopped and love it.

I grew up in a hot part of California, up what was called a "canyon." Near a mostly dry creek. I've lived on the west mesa near Albuquerque (same type of vegetation as shown in the search photos - only the search photos have way more variety and flowers - it's an amazing area they were walking through!)

If you like deserts. I'm not a strong swimmer, so I don't seek out water experiences.

It's the shortcut road from where they live to Vegas. It's heavily traveled by Southern Californians seeking a more scenic way (and less harrowing way) to get to Vegas.

Nothing at all odd about it. I know people who camp out there frequently (it's their thing) or at other desert places without nearby water (always fewer people, that in and of itself is a huge draw).

Great points made. Regarding the point I bolded though, I don't think that route is anywhere near the shortest way to Las Vegas from where they live. It looks well out of the way.
According to google maps, from their place in Bullhead City to LV via US-95 it takes 1:37. Via Needle to Kelso to LV it is 3:30, well over double the time. I think the road through Kelso might be a short-cut for people driving from LA to LV.