CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #3

[lonetraveler]

Getting on the roof and honking would have been a good strategy, the sound would have carried easily a mile up there! I want to point out that the north south dirt road that intersects the trail to the nearest rock formations with the "caves" as RT calls them is a pole line road, so if BT had accidentally gotten onto this dirt road she would realize pretty quick that this is different due to the power poles adjacent to the dirt road, and due to the fact that she was now walking parallel to Kelbaker Rd instead of towards it. On Google Earth you don't see many bends in the main trail, but I was surprised at how I could only see about 100-150 feet of the dirt road at a time before it "rounded a corner" which really means rounds a bend.

Also want to reiterate that going cross country through this terrain (which I did most of the time to search), is rife with pencil cholla and other cholla type cacti (the spines have hooks that are painful to pull out of the skin) . I was wearing long pants, and those hooks still got me on a number of occasions, and I'm used to walking cross country through the deserts. So she would have not willingly chosen to hike off-trail, it's just a lot more painful to walk in shorts through the denser vegetation. I'm attaching the trail and view towards the 5th wheel trailer turnout parking area.

Do you think that she would have been able to spot the Fifth-wheel Rv from any slightly higher elevation due to the Fifth-wheel being so tall?

 

[cherrymeg]

Can people just stop judging other people's way of living and start discussing what is important here?
Barbara is missing, her family can't find her or get hold of her.
We are here to help them.

New posters to this thread (who neglect to read all the posts, esp. the ones by the VI, or care to look up if it has already been discussed) seem amazed an elderly woman would go for a walk in the desert wearing a bikini, carrying a beer.
Yes, people do, and Barbara has done this with family members many times!
Young-er-ish posters in this thread seem amazed she didn't have a cell phone with her.
I don't! I borrow other peoples if I need one, I refuse to be brain-washed. I have a laptop I do my work on and emails are enough.

Well Said! If you google this case the news headlines mention the bikini, or granny in bikini or they straight up say she is elderly. It bothers me that the news is focused on her age and what she was wearing.

 

[Onebest]

I don't know that. Someone said here the sound of a running car does not even carry into the desert so I don't know.

Sound In heat travels faster, farther in cold, Sand will absorb/block some air born noise. Lots of google info on it.
Interesting link on sound in the Mojave.
The Listen(n) Project from Arizona State University Captures the Wild and Man-Made Sounds of National Parks - CityLab

Could BT have heard someone yelling for her? Prob too many variables to know. Location, wind, other sound interference and even her own hearing ability.

JMO

 

[al66pine]

BT & Son Communications?

If true son did not know his mother missing for six days....whelp: I wanna know why?....

^sbm^ Do we know about the means and frequency of the mother-son communications before her disappearance?
Did they talk on phone daily? Weekly? Monthly? Less often? Or text? correspond thru FB? Use Facetime?
Did they live in same town? 100 miles away? 200? 1000? How often did they visit in person?
In some families, one adult child talks frequently w Mom, then blabs/broadcasts/blasts news around to other sibs and fam members. and carries news the other direction too.
Presumably he is well into adulthood.
If their usu. calls were, say weekly, then his not knowing about her disappearance is not necessarily surprising to me - that is, if RT did not call him and if LE did not contact him.
OTOH, if son was not truthful about not knowing, well then, different story.
jmo

 

[sorrell skye]

True, but how out of touch would you have to be to not know a close relative was missing, when your family had already been notified. Apparently not out of touch enough to not be on social media...

Well I suppose you've brought up an intriguing question there, PaulR.

When did the nephew (our VI) learn that BT was missing? When did BT's son learn that his mother was missing?

Do we have a timeline regarding when various family members were informed of BT's disappearance?

 

[lonetraveler]

It was fairly easy to see the Incident Command Trailer post with the naked eye from about a mile or closer depending on your eyes (she may not have had good eye sight) as that is also a 5th wheel trailer, and those are tall and big trailers that stick well above the predominant creosote/cacti vegetation. If she had walked the opposite direction (meaning west instead of east) then RT's story would not match as he said she walked ahead of him (meaning east towards the trailer). But SAR searched at least several square miles in each direction (based on the tags and tracks I found). SAR it looks like emphasized the search west of the trailer as that is where RT told them they hiked. They did also cover east of Kelbaker to "cover all bases" as one of them told me in passing, but did not focus their search there as far as I could tell as an independent observer (meaning less foot prints, no 4wd off road or quad tracks through the bush).

My main concern was also the shelter theory, that she may have gotten off the trail to seek shelter in the dense thickets, rocks or if RT story is incorrect, worse, in all kinds of other rock formations further south, or west into the Granite Mountains. It's about a mile from the trailer turnout as the crow flies to where you hit the wall of the Granite Mountains. Unless they were climbers, they would not want to attempt up there. They could have followed the dirt road that skirts South around the foothills of these Granite Mountains, but all those trails were heavily driven by SAR and Sheriff vehicles. That's probably what they did initially, just cover as much ground as possible in as fast a time. I also saw lots of quad 4wheeler tracks running straight through the vegetation, so they would have done that according to their grid search likely. So I don't think her going way beyond the search grid is plausible, with the few facts that we got from RT. Robert is going to need to provide more detailed timeline and an exact account of where they went and what they did and show the pictures he took in order to help the volunteer searchers.

In my attempt to catch up I sent you a message about the possibility to her being able to spot the Fifth Wheel due to its height. I had not read this post at that time. You do not have to answer again. This one told me everything I wanted to know. Excellent answer.

 

[Onebest]

I know what a fifth wheel is. A truck with a camper on top a lot different from an self contained RV

No its not. Its an RV/trailer/ camper that is connected by a long arm to the back of the pickup. Thus the 5 th wheel.
A Guide To 5th Wheel Campers

 

[sroad]

Did any of the volunteers have information stating he did NOT provide that?

I did not try to pry information from the SARs folks as I wanted to stay out of their way. I was hoping RT, the family, or the Sheriff would provide more detailed information to the public to help with the search.

 

[kay74]

It was fairly easy to see the Incident Command Trailer post with the naked eye from about a mile or closer depending on your eyes (she may not have had good eye sight) as that is also a 5th wheel trailer, and those are tall and big trailers that stick well above the predominant creosote/cacti vegetation. If she had walked the opposite direction (meaning west instead of east) then RT's story would not match as he said she walked ahead of him (meaning east towards the trailer). But SAR searched at least several square miles in each direction (based on the tags and tracks I found). SAR it looks like emphasized the search west of the trailer as that is where RT told them they hiked. They did also cover east of Kelbaker to "cover all bases" as one of them told me in passing, but did not focus their search there as far as I could tell as an independent observer (meaning less foot prints, no 4wd off road or quad tracks through the bush).

My main concern was also the shelter theory, that she may have gotten off the trail to seek shelter in the dense thickets, rocks or if RT story is incorrect, worse, in all kinds of other rock formations further south, or west into the Granite Mountains. It's about a mile from the trailer turnout as the crow flies to where you hit the wall of the Granite Mountains. Unless they were climbers, they would not want to attempt up there. They could have followed the dirt road that skirts South around the foothills of these Granite Mountains, but all those trails were heavily driven by SAR and Sheriff vehicles. That's probably what they did initially, just cover as much ground as possible in as fast a time. I also saw lots of quad 4wheeler tracks running straight through the vegetation, so they would have done that according to their grid search likely. So I don't think her going way beyond the search grid is plausible, with the few facts that we got from RT. Robert is going to need to provide more detailed timeline and an exact account of where they went and what they did and show the pictures he took in order to help the volunteer searchers.

 

[sorrell skye]

FWIW I agree. Just because someone is blood relative doesn't mean there is an on going or current relationship.

Thank You for raising this question.

Your question has raised other questions, not the least of which is: can we trust/believe everything we read?

Answer: of course we can't.

 

[cherrymeg]

MOO maybe it was her way of distressing prior to what apparently would be a very emotional trip.

ETA
De-stressing.

Or she didn't actually go the the desert. MOO. I don't think it's weird to not rush to someone's bedside when they are sick and on another continent. Seeing someone before they die can be difficult but something you want to do. Sometimes you can actually be more helpful by showing up for your family after the loss. If everyone is dealing with doctors and your relative is in good hands surrounded by family, you might feel more like a burden if you show up unexpectedly. I'm not saying she would be.

 

[Gardener1850]

Ok, I think I see a little something that maybe is part of what others have been referring to.

This should be safe for me to post. But remember what can and cannot be posted here.

Google this: barbara thomas last seen on july 12

Thank you for the helpful search hint, slowpoke.

On an unrelated topic, something we can discuss-- based on the info posted here by the VI we know Barb did not use social media and did not own her own cell phone. Family had to teach her how to use a loaner cell phone when she visited Hong Kong a few months ago. Her immediate and extended family does not seem to live close to her and her husband. For these reasons, she may not have called family very often on the phone. Perhaps she only called weekly or monthly or perhaps she mostly sent old fashioned letters, cards and email? Theoretically, Barb's son not hearing from her for 6 days would not raise any alarms. It doesn't really explain why RT neglected to call Barb's son, however I gather there could be a rift between RT and Barb's son. Just guessing. MOO.

 

[Onebest]

This is absolutely unacceptable. Family is the first people you call!

I dont think its that wierd or unusual. In a perfect world in a perfect family maybe but we have no idea what kind of relationship they had with the son, if they talk to him, if they were estranged or even if Robbie had his phone number. There could be lots and lots of reasons. JMO

 

[Onebest]

What possible reason would he have to lie about something like that?

Could he not want to admit they are not a connected family? Embarrassed not to have been told? Just speculating......

 

[kay74]

It was fairly easy to see the Incident Command Trailer post with the naked eye from about a mile or closer depending on your eyes (she may not have had good eye sight) as that is also a 5th wheel trailer, and those are tall and big trailers that stick well above the predominant creosote/cacti vegetation. If she had walked the opposite direction (meaning west instead of east) then RT's story would not match as he said she walked ahead of him (meaning east towards the trailer). But SAR searched at least several square miles in each direction (based on the tags and tracks I found). SAR it looks like emphasized the search west of the trailer as that is where RT told them they hiked. They did also cover east of Kelbaker to "cover all bases" as one of them told me in passing, but did not focus their search there as far as I could tell as an independent observer (meaning less foot prints, no 4wd off road or quad tracks through the bush).

My main concern was also the shelter theory, that she may have gotten off the trail to seek shelter in the dense thickets, rocks or if RT story is incorrect, worse, in all kinds of other rock formations further south, or west into the Granite Mountains. It's about a mile from the trailer turnout as the crow flies to where you hit the wall of the Granite Mountains. Unless they were climbers, they would not want to attempt up there. They could have followed the dirt road that skirts South around the foothills of these Granite Mountains, but all those trails were heavily driven by SAR and Sheriff vehicles. That's probably what they did initially, just cover as much ground as possible in as fast a time. I also saw lots of quad 4wheeler tracks running straight through the vegetation, so they would have done that according to their grid search likely. So I don't think her going way beyond the search grid is plausible, with the few facts that we got from RT. Robert is going to need to provide more detailed timeline and an exact account of where they went and what they did and show the pictures he took in order to help the volunteer searchers.

BBM, This is the area I was most concerned about. I sure wish it would have been searched more thoroughly. I think she got to the RV and being obsessed with finding rocks went ahead past the RV, crossed the road and went looking until he got back.







































.

 

[kay74]

No its not. Its an RV/trailer/ camper that is connected by a long arm to the back of the pickup. Thus the 5 th wheel.
A Guide To 5th Wheel Campers

I know that. I've seen plenty of them. It's different from an RV is all I meant.

 

[sroad]

Sroad, you really know the area well. Thank you for your expertise.

My mind doesn't go to foul play first. So, my question to you:

Granite Mountain has old mining tunnels near it from what I can remember 40 years ago while hiking in that area.

Could BT have gone behind a boulder to "answer nature's call", and then fallen down into an unmarked, abandoned mining shaft?
​

At all likely? Or, no?


( JMO; MOO; From knowledge gleaned through continuing and varied Life Experiences; What a long strange trip it has been....)

​

I don't think so. If there were mining shafts, they would likely be into the eastern mountain side. I only found a couple officially noted ones on a forest service map layer (see attached). I did not see anything like mines out there. The likelihood that she fell into a crack or shaft is extremely small IMO. Cracks and crevices out there are only found on the large rock formations, which would mean she would have had to circle around her husband (she was heading back to the truck. So he was west of her, and there were no rock formations between them and the trailer at that point, had they taken the main trail back to the trailer) and then climb the rock formations in order to fall down a crack (the cracks in the main rock formations were well searched by SAR). And it was broad daylight, with very good visibility. While there the vegetation is denser than lower desert basins, it is still very easy to see around you when you walk.

 

[cherrymeg]

I guess my thing is how does he go so long with out contact from her and not get worried and call her husband?
If I go a day without hearing from my mom I’m wondering what’s wrong.

Some people have closer relationships to their families than others. If you are in different time zones or just busy with life sometimes you don't talk to the person every day. Some people aren't phone people.

 

[kay74]

I don't think so. If there were mining shafts, they would likely be into the eastern mountain side. I only found a couple officially noted ones on a forest service map layer (see attached). I did not see anything like mines out there. The likelihood that she fell into a crack or shaft is extremely small IMO. Cracks and crevices out there are only found on the large rock formations, which would mean she would have had to circle around her husband (she was heading back to the truck. So he was west of her, and there were no rock formations between them and the trailer at that point, had they taken the main trail back to the trailer) and then climb the rock formations in order to fall down a crack (the cracks in the main rock formations were well searched by SAR). And it was broad daylight, with very good visibility. While there the vegetation is denser than lower desert basins, it is still very easy to see around you when you walk.

I wish they would search again East of Kelbaker.

 

[al66pine]

No its not. Its an RV/trailer/ camper that is connected by a long arm to the back of the pickup. Thus the 5 th wheel.
A Guide To 5th Wheel Campers

This may help re RVs and terminology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recreational_vehicles.
Motorhomes, Class A, Class B, Class C, Travel trailers, and 5th Wheels or "5-ers" & more.

From ^ link: "Designed to be towed by a pickup or medium duty truck equipped with a special in-box hitch called a fifth wheel coupling. Part of the trailer body extends over the truck bed, shortening the total length of the vehicle and trailer combined."

On vid, RT was shown next to 5th wheel. IIRC,LE rig on SAR site was Class A motorhome.

ETA: Someone mentioned truck camper. From link:
"A truck camper is a living space unit that is temporarily mounted into the bed of a pickup truck and secured against any tipping or wobbling while the truck is in motion."