CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[Davia18]

IF BT was abducted, where is she now? And why?
Sorry just thinking outloud.
Chi

The only why I can come up with , is if she got back to the rv and someone was trying to break in and she confronted them.
Which still really doesn't make sense.

 

[GordianKnot]

Look near the beginning. I think RT’s Daughter was posting.

I think @dbdb11 is the only VI on the thread currently.

There have been purported family members of RT's who have posted on the thread but they haven't apparently completed the verification process; at least, I haven't seen any official announcements that there are any other VIs.

I'm really glad we have db here; otherwise, this thread would really be starved for facts in this case.

JMO.

 

[chihuahua]

I ask about the picture because I'm trying to get the flyers out to as many drivers as possible. Think truck stops, restaurants, watering holes etc etc. Car washes, truck washes, biker hangouts. Bars frequented by travellers. And tour and band busses.
If she was abducted, someone out there has seen something.
In Jayme Closs case, tho totally different, we now know responding cops passed the perps' car on the way to her home.
Mollie Tibbets came down to surveillance cams after many false accusations .
How a video helped solve mystery of Mollie Tibbetts' disappearance, authorities say
Chi

 

[MsBetsy]

For the sake of argument, let's say RT is telling the truth. He knows he was only 5 or 10 minutes behind BT. He knows it was a relatively short distance back to the RV. So, when he doesn't see her from the time she separated from him to the time he arrived back at the RV, what thoughts would cross his mind? That BT was lost? Probably not, since it wasn't that far back to the RV. That she was injured? Probably not, since he hadn't seen her or heard her calling for him. That she might've sought shelter from the heat? Well, he searched for her for about an hour without success. What's left? That she was abducted? It might seem strange to think so, but, in his mind, what other possibilities are left? He seemed as dumbfounded as I would expect, if he had nothing to do with her disappearance. Personally, I think we have too few hard facts to know yet what happened to BT.

Yes, we really don't have enough information to say one way or another.
He probably didn't think anything had happened until he got back to the RV and she wasn't there. Maybe he just assumed she was walking a lot faster than he was.

What still doesn't make sense to me is why he told his family he called 911 at noon if he didn't really call until about three hours later.
But that may have been a miscommunication or a misunderstanding.

I wish we knew for sure, because that would be the biggest red flag for me. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

The only why I can come up with , is if she got back to the rv and someone was trying to break in and she confronted them.
Which still really doesn't make sense.

And that’s the thing. We have to stretch to make the random abduction scenario work.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, we really don't have enough information to say one way or another.
He probably didn't think anything had happened until he got back to the RV and she wasn't there. Maybe he just assumed she was walking a lot faster than he was.

What still doesn't make sense to me is why he told his family he called 911 at noon if he didn't really call until about three hours later.
But that may have been a miscommunication or a misunderstanding.

I wish we knew for sure, because that would be the biggest red flag for me. Imo

To me, the biggest red flag has to do with one thing:

They were on a short walk, and she wasn’t far from the RV.

Abduction is spectacularly unlikely.

Her wandering off, getting lost, and not being found, is also very unlikely.

There should be some trace of her.

That alone makes me very suspicious that something nefarious happened, and I don’t believe a stranger did it.

 

[Davia18]

And that’s the thing. We have to stretch to make the random abduction scenario work.

Go Go gatchet stretch.
When this case very first broke my hinky meter was like no way. But then I just came from the other case where the woman really did run off after a random person tried to attack her. So I was like ok ok just maybe. Buuuttt now, well I'll sit on my hands.

 

[PaulR]

And that’s the thing. We have to stretch to make the random abduction scenario work.

Theory makes sense if (a) you are innocent, (b) you think she cannot get lost because "who gets lost in the desert", (c) you want to think she is alive because you know her chances if she is out there are basically zero, even at the time he gave that interview.

 

[MassGuy]

Theory makes sense if (a) you are innocent, (b) you think she cannot get lost because "who gets lost in the desert", (c) you want to think she is alive because you know her chances if she is out there are basically zero, even at the time he gave that interview.

I think she’s dead no matter what happened.

I think there are only two possibilities:

She was murdered.

She did somehow manage to get lost.

I don’t think she got lost...

 

[chihuahua]

Just to be clear, I don't think this was abduction, but it's possible.
It might provide hope for those who love this woman.
For their sake, I'm not going to say she's been murdered at this point.
This ain't my first "rodeo" either.
Chi

 

[PaulR]

Just to be clear, I don't think this was abduction, but it's possible.
It might provide hope for those who love this woman.
Chi

I don't think anyone expected Elizabeth Smart to have still been alive when she was recovered.

 

[kay74]

Look near the beginning. I think RT’s Daughter was posting.

Thanks!

 

[MsBetsy]

To me, the biggest red flag has to do with one thing:

They were on a short walk, and she wasn’t far from the RV.

Abduction is spectacularly unlikely.

Her wandering off, getting lost, and not being found, is also very unlikely.

There should be some trace of her.

That alone makes me very suspicious that something nefarious happened, and I don’t believe a stranger did it.

Yes, it seems strange and unlikely to me too.
But then I see posts from other people who have been to the desert and say that it's easy to become disoriented or lost.
I would believe that she got lost and fell into a deep crevice over the chance of her being abducted.

But then again they searched and couldn't find her anywhere.
I wonder how many deep crevices or things like that there are in the area and if it's too deep to see if anyone fell into one. Imo

 

[kay74]

The RV was parked in a very remote area. BT would have stood out approaching the RV. Someone could have seen her on their way to Vegas and abducted her very easily, sight unseen.

 

[kay74]

He was carrying a backpack. They put the key to the RV under a rock. Is that in case they got separated?? In case they went separate ways??

 

[dbdb11]

IF BT was abducted, where is she now? And why?
Sorry just thinking outloud.
1 question for clarity. Was the pic of BT in the black bikini top and red hat taken on this particular trip? TIA
Chi

has not been confirmed that picture is from the day. imo it is not.

as for your other questions...

my guess: barbara may have been held in an area not far, maybe vegas, or maybe the exact opposite direction, from where she was abducted. they probably took her to some safehouse, where they may have given her a change of clothes. its probably hot and they barely feed her. but she is alive. her kidnappers may have been awaiting payment, after all i doubt they would have any personal grudge against barb. just money in it for them, but when payday comes... nothing.

just the man on the news saying he hopes they release her, somewhere she can make contact, and the man assures them he will not press charges... but she might have seen their faces, they think. 'wtf kind of backwards deal is that?!' they might shout at the screen, as they try to decide what theyre going to do with the old woman locked in the back room.

just my own speculations. a fictional narrative i made to fit the story told by the man who brought her to the middle of the desert where she disappeared without a trace. a man we all know she loved, a man who may very well be heart broken himself.

what did barbara know that made her upcoming trip unacceptable?

 

[tcfpne]

An abduction by an unknown person(s) or anyone else really would leave behind clues, (the beer for example). I understand not wanting to fight the possible abductors if forced at gunpoint but to dissapear without a single clue or trace is just something else entirely.

 

[10ofRods]

This is great info; thank you.
Of all the theories presented, BT getting in a car, in a bikini with a beer, seems the hardest to fathom.

Amateur opinion and speculation

It does seem preposterous (unless they had a truly epic fight...even then). And then, the chances of that one car containing a predator need to be added in. Entirely possible, but improbable.

Here's a list of mountain lion attacks:

Fatal mountain lion attacks in California: Map and details

Check out the Iris Kenna one (1994), in similar terrain and not far from San Diego. We get about one each decade, more or less, and we haven't had one since 2004 (a man on a bike, in the hills). By similar terrain I mean flat, not in the hills, some scrub - but more trees.

 

[MassGuy]

An abduction by an unknown person(s) or anyone else really would leave behind clues, (the beer for example). I understand not wanting to fight the possible abductors if forced at gunpoint but to dissapear without a single clue or trace is just something else entirely.

And for that to even happen in the first place, is incredibly unlikely.

“I’m looking to kidnap someone. Oh look, there’s a lady by herself, in the middle of nowhere, wearing a bikini, and carrying a beer. Perfect. My lucky day.”

Some might call that serendipity. I call it BS.

 

[al66pine]

Not Found by Searchers?

.... assumed the search area included at least a few miles in all directions from the RV? I assume they flew over the area looking for things catching the eye even before having ground searchers? The chance that, while disoriented or feeling unwell, she could hide so well, or as you say cover enough ground to be outside the search area, just seems unfathomably small to me.
ETA: I mean, even if she walked twenty miles before collapsing out on the open desert floor, the searchers would have scanned for such an easily visible target, I hope! But I could be wrong on that, in which case I hope such an aerial search is done ASAP....

^bbm sbm

Agreeing w ^bbm#1 about search area likely covering ~ few miles in all directions from RV. Do we have a link to the search area map? Still thinking that she may be outside that SAR-defined search map and thus not found yet.

Re bbm#2, re efficacy of air searches.
Let's say, BT traveled 20 miles from RV (how? on foot, by unicycle which then self-vaporized, j/k) and collapsed. From the air, would she be an easily visible target there? IDK, but somewhat doubtful, imo, from info below re SAR generally.*
In this rough desert terrain, a person or remains can hidden from aircraft occupant's view in flora, rocks, formations, ravines, washes, and shade.
Were planes or choppers used on first day; what about the first (3-4?) desert-survivable days? If SAR "flew all over the area" say to 20 miles out from RV, before or after ground team searched the much smaller area, I wonder if SAR aircraft would have located her, by air-skimming (for lack of better term) at faster-then-optimal-search- speed and higher-than-optimal-search-altitude.

I too hope more aerial searches can be done, even for recovery rather than rescue.
All, jmo.
--------------------------------------------

* Hello, any SAR-pilot sleuthers here?
SAR articles I've read recently use term 'Low and Slow" as optimal air search method. To prevent crashes, both planes and helicopters have to maintain a certain speed and altitude. SAR article characterizes helicopters as preferable craft to fixed wing, and prescribes two people on each side of open-door/side of helicopters.
Also noted that hazy or overcast skies are better for detecting persons on ground, better than bright sunshine which creates shadows which camouflage bodies.
Dangit, cannot find link to SAR articles I read last week. If I locate late, I'll post. Sorry.

 

[dbdb11]

has not been confirmed that picture is from the day. imo it is not.

as for your other questions...

my guess: barbara may have been held in an area not far, maybe vegas, or maybe the exact opposite direction, from where she was abducted. they probably took her to some safehouse, where they may have given her a change of clothes. its probably hot and they barely feed her. but she is alive. her kidnappers may have been awaiting payment, after all i doubt they would have any personal grudge against barb. just money in it for them, but when payday comes... nothing.

just the man on the news saying he hopes they release her, somewhere she can make contact, and the man assures them he will not press charges... but she might have seen their faces, they think. 'wtf kind of backwards deal is that?!' they might shout at the screen, as they try to decide what theyre going to do with the old woman locked in the back room.

just my own speculations. a fictional narrative i made to fit the story told by the man who brought her to the middle of the desert where she disappeared without a trace. a man we all know she loved, a man who may very well be heart broken himself.

what did barbara know that made her upcoming trip unacceptable?

EDIT: what DOES barbara know? what did she learn?