CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[gsleuth]

Ha! I’ll just say I don’t think she got lost, don’t believe she was abducted, nor do I believe she is missing voluntarily.

In a word, foulplay.

In two words, foul play.

Ha..agree.

 

[Micheline]

Some have said RT saying BT was wearing a bikini and drinking a beer was talking in a deragotory way, even blaming her by describing her in such a way.

IMO, everyone who feels that way, he or she him/herself might (subconsciously) not feel it appropriate to be dressed like that, since why else would you have that thought.

BT used to dress that way, I have seen 4 or 5 pictures of her in a bikini, in different settings, that was her thing, she was a free spirited woman, and she liked to drink a beer in the desert. She enjoyed her life at 69.

I think everyone should accept BT the way she was, and not deflect their own thought of how a 69 yo should be dressed onto claiming RT talking in a bad way about his wife, he did not.

No offense intended, but this is been going on for a month, over and over again.

Why would he say it, because that is how she was dressed, because that is what she was drinking, perfect imo.
Again no offense, I respect everyone's sense of dresscodes, fashions style and even more free spiritedness. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Some have said RT saying BT was wearing a bikini and drinking a beer was talking in a deragotory way, even blaming her by describing her in such a way.

IMO, everyone who feels that way, he or she him/herself might (subconsciously) not feel it appropriate to be dressed like that, since why else would you have that thought.

BT used to dress that way, I have seen 4 or 5 pictures of her in a bikini, in different settings, that was her thing, she was a free spirited woman, and she liked to drink a beer in the desert. She enjoyed her life at 69.

I think everyone should accept BT the way she was, and not deflect their own thought of how a 69 yo should be dressed onto claiming RT talking in a bad way about his wife, he did not.

No offense intended, but this is been going on for a month, over and over again.

Why would he say it, because that is how she was dressed, because that is what she was drinking, perfect imo.
Again no offense, I respect everyone's sense of dresscodes, fashions style and even more free spiritedness. IMO

Or...some of us believe that he was speaking that way in order to sell the story that she was an irresistible target for a potential abductor.

What he was doing by saying she was dressed that way, is open to interpretation.

It’s either true, or it’s false.

If it is true, then he’s just stating fact.

If it is false, why is he saying this?

There are those who believe the latter is true, and have different reasons for why he might have said it.

This has nothing to do with not feeling her dress was “appropriate.”

And it is not a fact that he didn’t mean to speak ill of his wife, we cannot get inside his head.

 

[gsleuth]

BBM:

I'm now recalling words you recently said to me:

"Push through. I’m counting on you. We’re all counting on you."

A timely messsage for LE

 

[mtnstream]

@deugirtni

Post #544, page 28, thread 1 by dbdb11, our VI:

hmmm i don’t have the sharpest memory but i’ll try to recount as best as i can - robbie and said he needs to talk to daddy and that barbara’s missing. it was a long story that started at the beginning on friday morning and progressed chronologically throughout the day. the impression robbie gave me was that she was wearing a red cap, a bikini and carrying a travel cup with beer in it. they lost sight of each other for 5-10 minutes before she “vanished” and he went back to their rv to see if she had returned but it was still locked so that meant she hadn’t come back yet (they had put the key under a rock which they both knew the location of). so he went back to check a shaded cave that they had found together earlier thinking she may have been taking a break from the heat but she wasn’t there either. he still wasn’t worried at this point because.. i don’t remember why he said he wasn’t yet worried. maybe because they both knew the area? or this was a regular thing? idk not sure but he continued searching for her on his own. by around noon time it was getting terribly hot so he started getting worried and called 911. police arrived like 2 hours later and searched for her. robbie said throughout the day they had sniff dogs, horses, hundreds of people and even a helicopter (which unfortunately couldn’t use its infrared function because it was too hot out to get any useful readings) and nobody could find any trace of her. searched throughout the night too. nothing. she had just disappeared. robbie admits “it doesn’t make any sense” that she just wandered off and got lost and there’s no evidence.. which is why he suspects she may have been picked up in a car. also because from the spot where she went missing she had to cross a highway in order to get back to where their rv was parked. also apparently she took a 360 picture that morning from on top of a hill and the photo included a parking lot with some vehicles in it so the police are looking into their license plates/info.

robbie said that he just wants barbara back and will press no charges against the person who abducted her so long as they return her. the call was delivered in a measured tone but he broke down a bit at this point, was tough to hear ..abc reached out? idk if it was abc but some mainstream news outlet and i definitely heard nancy grace mentioned. robbie’s done some interviews as he wants to get the word out. but he hasn’t seen or read any of the released news and comments. it’s too much

he said he keeps returning to the spot where he lost her and overturning rocks and searching and searching hoping to find something. he was there the day he called us although i think he said he shouldn’t really go back there as protocol says he’s the first suspect. he was even held for 5hrs in a cop car on the first day. it’s been nonstop and nobody is sleeping. robbie said he had held off on calling daddy to tell him the bad news because it was such devastating news and he was hoping she would turn up.. but he couldn’t wait any longer. he also said it’s difficult to call into china and said his calls rarely go through so if we want to ask any questions or talk more we should call him.
txt msg from my sister. wish i.asked.for this.earlier...

Why does he return to the site she went missing and overturn rocks? What does he think he will find?

 

[Micheline]

-bolded by me-

IMO, this whole case boils down to whether or not there is a verifiable picture of Barbara on that hike. Unfortunately it's the one detail not one reporter (to my recall) has directly asked LE to comment on. Personally, I'd like to see a bulleted list of questions we'd like a reporter to ask the Detective in charge of the case (not Jodi Miller). Surely there is one tenacious reporter in the tri-state area who will hound that detective to get some details and the 911 call?!

Yes. If there is a verified picture that proves she was there, then that would be a game changer.

It would greatly diminish the odds of foul play, and point more towards a non-nefarious explanation.

Some intrepid reporter needs to find the answer.

Would it help if I said there are, several?

I think it is time this fact being injected into the discussion, pages and pages of accusations made towards RT, a victim, his adres and hang out locations being know.
He is a 72 yo man, most probably lost his wife.

Who knows which kind of person not in his right mind reading all these accusations and harming the man?

I think it is only fair to insert there is evidence of Barbara of their hike, time stamped, I am saying this to protect a man who is considered a victim by Websleuths TOS.

I am doing my utmost at this point, for the person who can confirm this to do so, please have a little patience.

Till then you are free to consider it speculation by me (which it isn't).

 

[Nikynoo]

-bolded by me-




Would it help if I said there are, several?

I think it is time this fact being injected into the discussion, pages and pages of accusations made towards RT, a victim, his adres and hang out locations being known.
He is a 72 yo man, most probably lost his wife.

Who knows which kind of person not in his mind reading all these accusations and harming the man?

I think it is only fair to insert there is evidence of Barbara of their hike, time stamped, I am saying this to protect a man who is considered a victim by Websleuths TOS.

I am doing my utmost at this point, for the person who can confirm this to do so, please have a little patience.

Till then you are free to consider it speculation by me (which it isn't).

I hope you are successful in gaining confirmation. I suspect though, that only confirmation from LE would suffice.

 

[mtnstream]

How well does sound travel there where they were, in the desert?

I would say it travels well, as it is remote, and Kelbaker Rd is not a highway, it's a two-lane blacktop road. Of course sound will travel more at night, but as that area is sparsely vegetated, there's less foliage (trees, etc) to slow down soundwaves.

Unless there's a lot of noise around from say, roaring off-road motorcycles, dune buggies, etc, sounds probably travel well in that remote, unpopulated area. MOO

 

[k-mac]

Or...some of us believe that he was speaking that way in order to sell the story that she was an irresistible target for a potential abductor.

What he was doing by saying she was dressed that way, is open to interpretation.

It’s either true, or it’s false.

If it is true, then he’s just stating fact.

If it is false, why is he saying this?

There are those who believe the latter is true, and have different reasons for why he might have said it.

This has nothing to do with not feeling her dress was “appropriate.”

And it is not a fact that he didn’t mean to speak ill of his wife, we cannot get inside his head.

Imo the general consensus here are cool with the fantasy image of barb rockin a bikini
RT's misogynistic tone talking about it a problem to me. its all interpretation at the end of the day.
he creeps me out very deeply.

 

[Curiousobserver]

This is how easily you can get lost in a crevice...

If he was even slightly smaller he would have fallen further and been invisible

Warning, graphic photos

Man plunges into tiny mountain crevice and gets trapped for four days

 

[mtnstream]

Those are mine, too, although I have also added Mountain Lion. The reason I added Mountain Lion is that there is an uptick in the Mountain Lion population. I had pooh-poohed the idea initially, due to water issues, but did some research and found that there is a source of water south of where the Thomases stopped. Mountain lions have a walking pace of 10 mph and attack at speeds of up to 60 mph. The rabbit population in the desert is up, due to all that extra foliage, and there were plenty of rabbits in that area, IMO.

It would be odd, though, for a lion to drag prey miles before stashing it. SAR searched such nearby stash places (and I think the sniffer dogs were there). However, if lion was feeding offspring at a distance, could have gone outside search area.

Still really improbable, but within the realm of possibility. Mountain lion fatalities in California occur every 10 years or so, but they do occur. Also, many older people have been victims, nation-wide, and a variable is the size of the victim. I think Barb looks as if she weighed around 120 lbs, not 130 as stated on her DL. I base this on the one fairly recent family photo. At any rate, 130 pounds is within a mountain lion's capacity to take. Lions often hide in sandstone outcroppings, similar to the one shown being searched in the twitter photos.

Since the more extensive search of the sandstone didn't take place until at least the next day, Lion would have cover of darkness to sneak off. HOWEVER, if they had a cadaver dog out there (surely they would have?) So...both "lost in the desert" and "mountain lion" are not such great theories.

But, a mountain lion would have put Barbara further out of the search radius than if she were on her own power, IMO. If LE/SAR suspected this, they knew that the total area to be searched was beyond the technical capacities of humans at that time of year...or any time of year, most likely.

So those are my RT-friendly theories.

The only way we'll know, if Barb was lost, discarded by a hit and run driver on some remote road, or taken by a mountain lion is when some future desert lover/ATV rider comes across skeletal evidence.

The lack of car debris near the place where Barb crossed is troubling, for the hit-n-run theory.

The "lost in the desert" is, statistically, most probable. I believe RT headed down to the creek bed (in an early report, reporter says "husband walked to a lake to take pictures" (there's obviously no lake - but there is a lake bed-like thing 14 miles north and then, there's the creek bed, which does look a bit like a dry lake and has very different rocks than the rest of the area - more like Mono Lake, which people drive a hundred miles or more out of their way to see...)

So, it's not like RT was just randomly photographing rocks. He never mentions a tripod and he does mention a gallon of water in his pack. Most rock photographers don't use a tripod for a simple shot of rock formations, as rocks don't move. The length of time he says he was there indicates it was probably his hand held camera (presumably, it could have been his phone).

Granite Mountains in the distance - with much less foliage than during the time the Thomases visited:

Granite Mountains (California) - Wikipedia

I'll try and post pictures of the white rock formations later.

The mention of the "dry lake" led many to believe they were at the Kelso Dunes area, but the 911 call says Kelbaker/HH and that's where the search took place.

Not sure the exact LE search location, at Hidden Hills Rd, there's a turn out on the west side of Kelbaker Rd, about 1/2 - 1 mile hike to cave/sandstone formations on west side of Kelbaker Rd. About 2 miles north of that, there's a building at Granite Pass on the right side of Kelbaker RD, and there is a turn out on the opposite side of Kelbaker Rd, the same side as caves/sandstone formations, which are west of Kelbaker Rd.

There are a few places, in the 5 miles north of Granite Pass area, where I guess a vehicle could pull off the road on the east side, but those areas are not really pull outs, they are stream beds (ie: very sandy) and they are definitely more than a mile hike to any caves. By the time you get to Vulcan Mine Rd, another 5 miles or so, it is definitely flat areas, at least 2-4 miles walk to any hills, caves, etc.

About the mountain lion, they don't usually hunt in the middle of the day, in 90+ degree weather. MOO

 

[mtnstream]

So it's two years old?

She was wearing the same black bikini and red baseball cap, as two years earlier?

 

[deugirtni]

Question: if the lady was walking in front of her husband, he stayed behind for 5-10 mins, if she was walking casually, she may have moved about a 1/4 of a mile. How busy is that road? If any vehicle drove by during that time, surely he would have heard it? Sound travels well, on a sunny day, in desert areas.

Not to mention - not only would a car likely have been heard, but surely BT would have seen any said car, and if said car had slowed when the driver saw her, presumably to ask if she was ok, perhaps she wouldn't have immediately been concerned.. however, if that driver had pulled over and then someone exited the car to grab her, it isn't like she wouldn't see this and be aware of it - so wouldn't she cry out, knowing her husband is not too far behind her?

ETA I mean, if someone sneaks up behind you and grabs you and covers your mouth so you can't scream, that's one thing.. but this was a different thing where she would have had sight of a vehicle slowing, stopping, veering over, opening door, etc. No surprise.

 

[Cherwell]

So I'm just curious about this hiding-the-key-under-the-rock-thing (which I don't know where that came from, but I have seen mention of it in the thread) - why on earth, on such a short little stint, taken as an aside while traveling to a camping destination, knowing it would be just a short hike, WHY would the key have been hidden under a rock?? Surely on such a short little hike, the two wouldn't have become separated THAT much that they would have to consider such a thing? I could see if they planned an all-day hike or something, or if they each wanted to go separate ways to look at different scenery.. but this was one mile out and one mile back, both apparently going to see the same rock formations.

Just conjecture, but if it had happened in the past that someone got separated and locked out, you might adopt this as a contingency plan for future trips. Then it becomes a habit and you do it regardless of the circumstances.

Totally different situation, but: A couple of other people have spare keys to our house, but it once happened that we were away and needed someone to go into the house and neither of them were available. Ever since then we keep a key in a secret location, so if necessary we can call someone else and tell them where to look.

 

[Nikynoo]

Not to mention - not only would a car likely have been heard, but surely BT would have seen any said car, and if said car had slowed when the driver saw her, presumably to ask if she was ok, perhaps she wouldn't have immediately been concerned.. however, if that driver had pulled over and then someone exited the car to grab her, it isn't like she wouldn't see this and be aware of it - so wouldn't she cry out, knowing her husband is not too far behind her?

ETA I mean, if someone sneaks up behind you and grabs you and covers your mouth so you can't scream, that's one thing.. but this was a different thing where she would have had sight of a vehicle slowing, stopping, veering over, opening door, etc. No surprise.

But why would she go to a car,if the RV was nearby? If she came out onto the road at a different place because she got lost, then I could see the scenario being - why don't you get in the car and we'll go look for the RV?

 

[rosesfromangels]

This is how easily you can get lost in a crevice...

If he was even slightly smaller he would have fallen further and been invisible

Warning, graphic photos

Man plunges into tiny mountain crevice and gets trapped for four days

This is exactly what I believe happened to Paul Miller at Joshua Tree. I think Barb is either out in the open, yet to be found, or in a mine.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Cherwell]

But why would she go to a car,if the RV was nearby? If she came out onto the road at a different place because she got lost, then I could see the scenario being - why don't you get in the car and we'll go look for the RV?

That's a believable situation. It requires a double whammy of bad luck, but such things do happen.

 

[PajamaSleuth]

Just conjecture, but if it had happened in the past that someone got separated and locked out, you might adopt this as a contingency plan for future trips. Then it becomes a habit and you do it regardless of the circumstances.

Totally different situation, but: A couple of other people have spare keys to our house, but it once happened that we were away and needed someone to go into the house and neither of them were available. Ever since then we keep a key in a secret location, so if necessary we can call someone else and tell them where to look.

Many newer vehicles are able to be unlocked with a numeric combination or a fingerprint or whatever .... why not leave all the keys in the truck? Does their vehicle not have that option?

When RT returned to the truck, why did he spend time looking under rocks??? Are there giant rocks that she could have hidden under for shade? Or was he looking under smaller rocks for the keys? Forgive me if this was explained earlier.

 

[deugirtni]

Some have said RT saying BT was wearing a bikini and drinking a beer was talking in a deragotory way, even blaming her by describing her in such a way.

IMO, everyone who feels that way, he or she him/herself might (subconsciously) not feel it appropriate to be dressed like that, since why else would you have that thought.

BT used to dress that way, I have seen 4 or 5 pictures of her in a bikini, in different settings, that was her thing, she was a free spirited woman, and she liked to drink a beer in the desert. She enjoyed her life at 69.

I think everyone should accept BT the way she was, and not deflect their own thought of how a 69 yo should be dressed onto claiming RT talking in a bad way about his wife, he did not.

No offense intended, but this is been going on for a month, over and over again.

Why would he say it, because that is how she was dressed, because that is what she was drinking, perfect imo.
Again no offense, I respect everyone's sense of dresscodes, fashions style and even more free spiritedness. IMO

I can only speak for myself, but I feel it has zero to do with what BT was wearing, as to why it is seen as a red flag when RT mentions it. He was not 'describing' BT when he said this, - in fact I don't believe he did describe her. If describing her, he presumably would have mentioned hair color, height, body type, *boots* and not just the bikini and that she had a beer in hand. The beer part isn't even a description, because anyone on the lookout for her after she was taken, is sure to find her absent the beer. He said it during two separate interviews, which have been transcribed which I am linking below.

In one, he says: "1:12 "I feel that, uh, somebody picked her up, uh, because she was wearing a bikini, she had a beer in her hand, and she was ahead of me and she had to cross that road."

In the other, he says: 1:13 "My feeling is that she was picked up because she had to cross the highway - she *was* wearing a bikini and she had a beer in her hand."

* he places emphasis on the word *was*, as if to say, 'afterall, she WAS wearing a bikini and she had a beer in her hand, so who could've resisted', or something to that effect. It is almost like a justification as to why she was taken and why it makes sense for him to say so. 'Well of COURSE someone snatched her, because there she was, wearing a bikini with beer in hand.' Perfect. I notice that he also has an excuse at hand for why he 'failed' the lie detector test, which he shares with everyone. I also notice his narrative includes letting us know how much they love each other (why would anyone have thought otherwise? Why waste time with that part when he could've been begging for her to be returned unharmed?). He asks for her release with no questions asked, but what if her face and body are all cut up, what then? No questions? No charges? Why not? Why not 'please be on the lookout for her, we've got to get this monster who snatches random women from the roadway.'? He also makes no mention of having searched for her for hours before calling 911, he only says he called out, waved his arms, looked around, and got panicky, so presumably he would've called 911 at *that* point (but apparently he didn't do that until some 3.5 hours later?). I also notice that during both interviews, he says the same things, which to me, makes me think he's rehearsed the parts of his narrative which he feels are most important for him to get out. He also answers with 'absolutely not', instead of simply 'NO' when asked if he had anything to do with his wife's disappearance.

It seems to me that RT himself may be the one who had an issue with what she was wearing, else why make that the main focus of why he believes she was picked up? Even if he had no issue with her attire, it seems high up on his list of WHY he believes she was picked up. He could've just said something like 'she had to cross the highway so I fear that a predator may have easily seen her and taken advantage of the opportunity to snatch a vulnerable older woman all alone with easy access at the side of the highway with nobody around to see.' (Or even just 'a woman', or 'an attractive woman'.)

There are often lots of clues outside of the words spoken, which people can clue into by either reading between the lines, watching body language, listening to tone, watching the eyes, paying attention to which words are chosen, and/or being aware of the feeling one might get when the particular words are spoken, amongst other things. In this case, to me, his words are saying much more about *him* than they are about her.

AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[deugirtni]

But why would she go to a car,if the RV was nearby? If she came out onto the road at a different place because she got lost, then I could see the scenario being - why don't you get in the car and we'll go look for the RV?

She wouldn't. But how do you suppose she would've been able to be taken? Only by force, I am presuming. So why no scream? Why not run? She seemed to be fit. She knew hubby was near. I was just saying that she would've seen that vehicle coming and it wouldn't have caught her by surprise where she'd have no ability to scream or run. But yet she didn't apparently do that.