CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

[Cherwell]

I think he could have expressed his abduction theory without implying that “bikini and beer” is what made her a target. I gave him the benefit of the doubt about this initially, but it does seem weird the more I think about it. It’s a little too close to the “mini skirt led to rape” idea. JMO

As a general comment, I don't understand why so many people are in denial about this kind of thing. Scanty clothing can attract the wrong sort of attention. That's a fact. It has always been so, and always will be so. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that fact. It's acting on it that should rightly be condemned.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

SBBM
Yes.

Double side-eye judgment if she’d have ‘disappeared’ while you were in the AC!

No. She’s a grown adult. No evidence of dementia. It might have been on her bucket list. You would not have let her take the walk if she didn’t seem fit enough to make the trek.
Second guessing your mom here is not second guessing Barbara. We’re second guessing RT explanation of her DISAPPEARANCE with his details. They just don’t seem plausible all put together.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

they oughtta get a damn search warrant for the house

 

[distracted]

Oh, you mean an "opportunist abducter" [sic] who just happens across a 'black bikini and red cap'-wearing and 'mug'-toting woman as she approaches in to the specific turnout area and artfully engages in conversation, such as, "Hi, hot as h### today, huh? Whatcha' drinkin'?"... and goes from there.

The "beer" aspect is important because RT made point of it during interviews. Exactly why it mattered to him to make note of it is not clear except that he seemed to imply it was part of the reason why she was 'abducted'. Taking that one step further via speculation is quite easy... one of a few identifiable elements in an abduction target. Drinking beer over water in >100° desert temperatures? Odd.

The "beer in an insulated mug" is only important because it's part of RT's rehearsed narrative. And the reason his narrative is totally unbelievable to me is that it's too detailed. It's way too detailed and peppered with suppositions about what he thinks happened to her - suppositions he believes are believable. And they are not believable.

ETA: If someone wanted to abduct her, a beer in her hand would be of no relevance. Unless, of course, that mug in her hand was a description RT gave to someone who was instructed to pick her up, as a means to identify her.

 

[distracted]

IMHO, RT loosened his grip and allowed her to visit her family in HK in May, 2018. Now she had another solo trip planned. Maybe this time, she'd change her plans and stay for an indefinite length of time. He wasn't happy. Why wasn't he happy? Because he likes to be in control (for example, he's the one with the cell phone and water). RT kept BT on a short leash, IMHO. So he told BT, "if you want to take a trip to see your family, you need to take a trip with me" or maybe something less ominous like, "I really want to take the new RV out; let's go now before your trip." I am staying open as to whether or not what happened to BT was accidental or pre-meditated, although I am leaning toward the latter. I'm not ruling out kidnapping, either, but remember, he was not far behind her and they didn't take him, too. If they wanted money, wouldn't they have taken him to an ATM? She allegedly had nothing but a beer in her possession, if you believe his story. JMHO

Yes, perhaps he was miserable the entire time she went to HK the first time and didn't want her to go.

And also, perhaps he feared she wouldn't return. It happens. My own mother-in-law left her husband to care for an ailing aunt - she was only supposed to be gone for a couple of weeks - and she never went back.

 

[Lilibet]

A reasonable person would not run around frantically, knocking on doors, doing daily interviews, putting up posters etc, hereby putting pressure on already very suspicious and alert kidnappers.
Instead, one should do everything to forecom them flipping and harming their loved one or worse. LE would advice against this too.

So, if you honestly believe your wife has been abducted from along the road for nefarious reasons do you call LE, go on TV and offer that as a theory, naming Las Vegas and telling them to drop her off unharmed and you won’t press charges? Maybe you do initially. But after the desert search is completed and there is no word from the kidnappers and no Barbara after ten days...then what? You don’t even know if you really are dealing with kidnappers at that point...no demands for ransom, no threats, you’ve already called the police. At this point, what do you have to lose by being more proactive to try to find her? We’re well past the stage of tiptoeing carefully on the kidnappers’ feelings.

 

[rosesfromangels]

So, if you honestly believe your wife has been abducted from along the road for nefarious reasons do you call LE, go on TV and offer that as a theory, naming Las Vegas and telling them to drop her off unharmed and you won’t press charges? Maybe you do initially. But after the desert search is completed and there is no word from the kidnappers and no Barbara after ten days...then what? You don’t even know if you really are dealing with kidnappers at that point...no demands for ransom, no threats, you’ve already called the police. At this point, what do you have to lose by being more proactive to try to find her? We’re well past the stage of tiptoeing carefully on the kidnappers’ feelings.

We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes. For all we know they are currently in negotiations.

This is not my primary theory, but I’m pointing out we have no idea.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Lilibet]

As a general comment, I don't understand why so many people are in denial about this kind of thing. Scanty clothing can attract the wrong sort of attention. That's a fact. It has always been so, and always will be so. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that fact. It's acting on it that should rightly be condemned.

Of course scanty clothing can attract attention that shouldn’t be acted on and doesn’t in itself cause an attack. But it’s objectionable to speak about your wife’s clothing as being the reason for an abduction. It just comes across weird...almost like saying the abductor couldn’t resist (so she brought it on herself).

 

[Nikynoo]

CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

Just wanted to point out there is a facebook page which was founded by a close relative of RT. There is further (vague) information on there also.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Checking in for updates on Barbra. It doesn't sound good that there's been no word yet.

Hoping for the best possible outcome.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I doubt it was less than ~850 feet given the distance from the closest side of the nearest rock formation to the turnout and I also doubt it was more than 1500 feet, assuming once again the nearest rock formation. If it was the farthest rock formation we're still less than 2000 feet so I would dispute a distance greater than 1/2 mile.

Going beyond that, we have a cave that RT mentioned that he returned to, to search for BT because after he got back to the RV and realized she was no where in sight he thought of other places to where she might have walked. I dismiss the cave theory because why would BT walk to a cave when she wanted to get to the RV. I do not know the location of the cave but I suspect walking to it would introduce much farther distances for BT to walk (unless the cave was located within the same rock formation) before she could arrive back to the RV. The cave search was just RT attempting to be thorough in his searching for BT before eventually contacting 911. Understandable.

I find the "abducted" when she "crossed that road" theory a possibility, albeit a remote possibility, and I also find that LE's "no evidence of Barbara was found" at the general location quite plausible, meaning, given the sparse attire and no backpack there wasn't much to leave behind. I suspect BT's cap could have fallen off during a struggle but such caps are usually stable if fitted correctly, perhaps a pony-tail/bunched hair was threaded through the adjustment band.

As for footprints, struggle disturbances, I don't expect such 'evidence' to be easily detected on dry, hard desert earth. The variance in makeup and disbursement (wind erosion) of surface material in such an environment makes detecting 'disturbances' somewhat difficult but, it should be easier to detect something that would be 'out-of'place' in such an environment, such as chips bags and candy wrappers.

Now, down to this: I find the "carrying a beer" aspect just a bit troubling in that, why would BT hang on to a beer or anything else not usable as a weapon if she were being abducted by force? It is possible the beer (container) could have landed on the floor of an opened-door vehicle during a struggle but for that to occur I expect BT would have had to have been very close to the vehicle before the abduction action had begun; I can't imagine BT holding on to it while being dragged even a short distance to a vehicle. Heck, drop that beer, claw the abductor's face, etc.

The fact that RT emphasized the beer is the key element causing me concern. You state it as fact that the person had a beer in their hand, to ponder why it wasn't found at what you believe to be an abduction scene but not that it was part of the enticement for someone to abduct, which is how it sounded coming from RT during the interviews; his presentation of that supposed fact (carrying a beer) did not waiver. He never stated 'I didn't even find the beer she was carrying'.

That beer issue is exactly what gave me pause posts and posts ago. I don't know anyone that if they were being kidnapped would be worried about hanging on to refreshments.

 

[Cherwell]

Of course scanty clothing can attract attention that shouldn’t be acted on and doesn’t in itself cause an attack. But it’s objectionable to speak about your wife’s clothing as being the reason for an abduction. It just comes across weird...almost like saying the abductor couldn’t resist (so she brought it on herself).

I don't agree. It was simply an acknowledgement that someone might have been attracted to her and that person had bad intentions. The main "reason" he gave was that she would have been on the road and alone.
It's completely beyond me how people spin this sort of comment into "blame". There is nothing there that implies that the victim is to blame and a potential abductor should be excused.

 

[deugirtni]

Maybe this has been mentioned (long ago perhaps), but is it not weird to begin with, that if one is out hiking for presumably extended periods in those kinds of temps, one would need at least water (and especially if one is experienced, as these people are purported to be).. but yet we have the victim toting a 'beer'.. which, from what I have understood over my lifetime, beer doesn't do much to quench thirst, and actually makes you feel more thirsty, not to mention that it also tends to make one need to empty their bladder more quickly, both of which one would presumably not want to be doing to themselves during this type of excursion? I had always understood as well, that alcohol has a DEhydrating effect on the body. Seems an odd choice to me, for the specific activity these people were doing.

 

[deugirtni]

duplicate deleted

 

[Cherwell]

That beer issue is exactly what gave me pause posts and posts ago. I don't know anyone that if they were being kidnapped would be worried about hanging on to refreshments.

That presupposes a snatch and grab type of kidnap. Someone getting willingly into a vehicle on whatever pretext would keep hold of what they were carrying. There's also the situation which was suggested earlier - that she mistook a path, kept walking instead of making a turn, and ended up a long way down the road at the wrong parking place. She might have accepted a lift in those circumstances.

 

[Cherwell]

DBM - double post

 

[PommyMommy]

CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

Just wanted to point out there is a facebook page which was founded by a close relative of RT. There is further (vague) information on there also.

A Facebook page or a Facebook group? I don't see any page for Barbara, but I'm aware of two groups.

One group was started by a member of the Polly Klaas Foundation who is the sole Admin. The other group was started by someone I'm familiar with who is definitely not a family member of RT. I see that there are two other admins and I will ask whether they are relatives of RT. Because if so, we may be able to link that here with a mods approval.

Or, am I overlooking the one you're talking about?

FTR, I don't follow any case on FB so I have no idea. MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

A Facebook page or a Facebook group? I don't see any page for Barbara, but I'm aware of two groups.

One group was started by a member of the Polly Klaas Foundation who is the sole Admin. The other group was started by someone I'm familiar with who is definitely not a family member of RT. I see that there are two other admins and I will ask whether they are relatives of RT. Because if so, we may be able to link that here with a mods approval.

Or, am I overlooking the one you're talking about?

FTR, I don't follow any case on FB so I have no idea. MOO

let me check with my SO. Its a group.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

Of course scanty clothing can attract attention that shouldn’t be acted on and doesn’t in itself cause an attack. But it’s objectionable to speak about your wife’s clothing as being the reason for an abduction. It just comes across weird...almost like saying the abductor couldn’t resist (so she brought it on herself).

I think another small piece is how matter-of-factly this is being stated in two separate interviews. I understand that people hold certain views, but this isn't just a hypothetical for him at this point. It happened. She was taken, apparently by a predator. Wouldn't that freak you out in a big way, wondering what they are doing to her? I can't recall if he asked them not hurt her. I do know he asked them to bring her back.

It doesn't matter what era you were raised in (and he is not that old or naive IMO - he's clearly had a successful life, has a business that presumably involves computers and also served his country in war). No matter what you say or what you were raised to believe, if you truly love your wife as an individual and not as a possession, it would be horrifying and terrifying that someone just thought they could grab her. So why so calm and almost accusing each time you repeat that? He did get emotional and cry later, in a different context for each interview.

Yes, I have seen and read Gone Girl. I've also seen Susan Smith and Josh Powell crying their eyes out because I think they genuinely felt bad about what they did, while they told us a whole other story. The little pieces here are what bother me, but I don't claim to know anything.

 

[TristanP]

That presupposes a snatch and grab type of kidnap. Someone getting willingly into a vehicle on whatever pretext would keep hold of what they were carrying. There's also the situation which was suggested earlier - that she mistook a path, kept walking instead of making a turn, and ended up a long way down the road at the wrong parking place. She might have accepted a lift in those circumstances.

Or, entertaining this abduction idea, it was perhaps a planned thing and the abductors were careful to leave nothing behind.