CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[iscaremyself]

There are so many possibilities regarding what could have happened to BT in this situation, it's maddening.

Based on all the photos, maps, and info RT provided in MSM interviews on where they were when she disappeared (all posted upthread numerous times), IMO, the lay of the land and 'short distance' she had to cover to reach the RV should have allowed RT to see BT once he 'rounded the corner' he said she went around when he 'last saw her', even if she passed out and fell on her way back to the RV.

By 'short distance' I'm referring to RT saying they were on their way back to the RV on their 2 mile walk (1 mile each way), so they were both less than 1 mile from the road and their RV.

Therefore, he should have been able to see her if she was less than 1 mile away (and he was uphill from her as she was closer to the road where the elevation flattened out):

"How far apart, assuming no obstacles, can two people stand and still see each other?
... a person 6 feet tall standing on level ground can see for about 3 miles. So, theoretically, a person 6' tall (with binoculars) should be able to see the top of the head of a six-footer who is 6 miles away. He would see the whole person at a distance of 3 miles"
How far can you see?

MOO

I've been to those rocks..from ground level you can't see the road or even a semi driving by. The road is below natural terrain as much as 4 feet.

 

[Stripehaven]

Our VI @dbdb11 has said that the case detective told him that photos from RT's phone showed that he and BT were there when they said they were. (AFAIK, the VI has not seen the photos.)

That said, we don't know what timeline RT gave LE. IIRC, in media interviews, he said he searched for BT for about an hour before calling 911. So in that account, he missed her around 2:30pm and their walk (and presumably the photos) was before then. The dispatch call log puts the 911 call at 3:26pm. (I'm guessing that's the time of the call but wonder if it could be the time of dispatch.) In a different timeline, @dbdb11's sister recalled RT telling the family he started to worry about BT at around noon and then called 911. In that account, their walk (and the photos) would be from sometime before noon.

We've discussed those different timelines ad nauseam here already, I'm just saying that even if the detective told the VI that the photos show that RT/BT were there when he said they were, we don't know exactly what that means. JMO

Yup. For me that still means a gap between noonish and when the 911 call was made. Time to travel down the road and back if one were so inclined.

 

[Hatfield]

We really don't know what he has or has not said except what's in those two media interviews.
He will have said much more to the police, and they will have asked those kind of questions.

My money is on their having a disagreement,not necessarily anything major, and she stormed off. Understandably he wouldn't want to disclose that detail to the media or the wider public, but he may have admitted it to the police.

JMO
I've pondered some sort of argument on the trail as a real possibility too. Like maybe she stormed off mad and that could be why he didnt immediately go looking for her.

She may have even purposely took a detour trail to avoid him and planned on hiding out awhile to get back at him to make him worry. She could have gotten really lost if she purposely took a trail to hide from him.

I think its a real possibility of something like that happeneing but this theory is probably 2nd on my list right now. Wish we had more specifics and facts about exactly what happened on the trail the moment he claims to have lost sight of her. I dont quite believe she could "round a bend" and get out of sight since he would be uphill from her if she was heading down. And all he would have to do is shout out to her the moment she went out of view. Something doesnt sound right about the way things were presented about that. Or we just dont have all the information.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I've been to those rocks..from ground level you can't see the road or even a semi driving by. The road is below natural terrain as much as 4 feet.

If it is not clear to LE and SAR where exactly RT said BT was when she went around the corner and he said 'that's the last I ever saw of her', it can't be clear to anyone else. We simply don't know where she was when he saw her 'rounding a corner' and then she disappeared.

I was startled as I just posted above that after interviewing RT and searching for BT for 9 days where he said they were walking and he last saw her, LE stated to MSM:

"Authorities are unaware of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared nor do they know how far she was from the RV at the time".

This creates a lot of uncertainty on her last known location, IMO, and the circumstances of her disappearance. MOO.

From Media Thread (BBM):

JUL 17, 2019
Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'
[...]

Robert says they had taken a short trip in their camper when they decided to pull up and go for a 2-mile walk to explore rock formations. They took a pack, beer and a gallon of water...

They were on their way back to the camper when Bob said his wife started pulling ahead. He told her he wanted to take a picture of a rock formation and as he put his camera away, he saw her rounding a corner.

"That’s the last I ever saw of her," he said.

JUL 19, 2019
Video: Husband of missing 69-year-old hiker says police consider him a suspect

• SBCSO says they are not releasing any information about the missing person investigation and interviews with family members.
• Authorities also say they have no evidence the woman was abducted nor have they found any trace of her.
• Rescuers resumed the search at daybreak using off-road vehicles, K9 units, hikers, and aerial support.
• Authorities are unaware of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared nor do they know how far she was from the RV at the time.
• Officials also say that they are unaware of any medical conditions that may have caused BT to become disoriented or lost.

 

[Cherwell]

"Authorities are unaware of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared nor do they know how far she was from the RV at the time".

Well, obviously, because there is no independent corroboration. They don't know if he is telling the truth, or - if they assume he is - how accurate his memory is on those details.

 

[Side Sleuth]

"Authorities are unaware of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared nor do they know how far she was from the RV at the time".

Well, obviously, because there is no independent corroboration. They don't know if he is telling the truth, or - if they assume he is - how accurate his memory is on those details.

But does LE say that in every case? I do not recall seeing it other missing persons cases including the Powell one. They gave the timeframe the husband gave them IIRC.

 

[deugirtni]

Your scenario makes me wonder about the beer she was carrying around. When was the beer poured in the travel mug? From the RV at the beginning of the hike? It had to be super warm at that point. Why carry it around for so long? Did she ever ask for water? Or pour a little on her head if she was hot?

Excellent point, whether beer was in a bottle/can, or in a travel mug, if they were at the tail end of a 2-mile walk, surely that beer would've been either long-gone by then, or warm and skunky, unless of course, RT was carrying with him a stash of cold ones on ice in addition to the gallon of water, but didn't mention the stash of beer, or that he'd been carrying it for her (she obviously couldn't have been carrying it on ice ahead of time, since she was said to be carrying nothing BUT the travel-mug/bottle/can of beer). I hope LE has thought of this too, and questioned appropriate parties about when, how, how long, etc., since it's the details like this that can get all tangled up for someone.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not sure where the 'stay' came from exactly... but I wanted to say that imo, there is a large difference between 'stay', and 'wait'. RT was said to have been packing up his gear, already finished with his photo-session, when BT went on ahead without him.. so presumably he was only a couple of minutes behind her, as.. how long does it take to pack up photog gear? So apparently he had told her to 'stay'?? That seems super strange to me, considering he's really right behind her. She must've said to him something like, 'I'm going to get going while you finish packing your gear because I've got to 'use' the RV'.. and so he responds with, 'Oh please stay'? Hmm. Even a 'wait', seems kind of odd, considering he would've been mere minutes behind her... just as easy for him to 'catch up', as it would've been for her to 'wait'. imo.

 

[CSIDreamer]

But does LE say that in every case? I do not recall seeing it other missing persons cases including the Powell one. They gave the timeframe the husband gave them IIRC.

Exactly. Makes one wonder.

 

[Cherwell]

But does LE say that in every case? I do not recall seeing it other missing persons cases including the Powell one. They gave the timeframe the husband gave them IIRC.

She was found quite quickly though, wasnt she?
The quoted statement is dated a week after Barbara went missing.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm not sure where the 'stay' came from exactly... but I wanted to say that imo, there is a large difference between 'stay', and 'wait'. RT was said to have been packing up his gear, already finished with his photo-session, when BT went on ahead without him.. so presumably he was only a couple of minutes behind her, as.. how long does it take to pack up photog gear? So apparently he had told her to 'stay'?? That seems super strange to me, considering he's really right behind her. She must've said to him something like, 'I'm going to get going while you finish packing your gear because I've got to 'use' the RV'.. and so he responds with, 'Oh please stay'? Hmm. Even a 'wait', seems kind of odd, considering he would've been mere minutes behind her... just as easy for him to 'catch up', as it would've been for her to 'wait'. imo.

Whaaat? Have you never said "Wait for me!" when someone's going ahead a bit faster than you?

I don't think there's an iota of significance whether he asked her to wait a minute, or stay till he was ready, or whatever it was. He probably doesn't even remember the exact words said.

 

[Cherwell]

Excellent point, whether beer was in a bottle/can, or in a travel mug, if they were at the tail end of a 2-mile walk, surely that beer would've been either long-gone by then, or warm and skunky, unless of course, RT was carrying with him a stash of cold ones on ice in addition to the gallon of water, but didn't mention the stash of beer, or that he'd been carrying it for her (she obviously couldn't have been carrying it on ice ahead of time, since she was said to be carrying nothing BUT the travel-mug/bottle/can of beer). I hope LE has thought of this too, and questioned appropriate parties about when, how, how long, etc., since it's the details like this that can get all tangled up for someone.

When I read that the beer was in a travel cup (or whatever the term used) I pictured one of those insulated ones that keeps hot drinks hot and cold drinks cold.

 

[PommyMommy]

I'm not sure where the 'stay' came from exactly... but I wanted to say that imo, there is a large difference between 'stay', and 'wait'. RT was said to have been packing up his gear, already finished with his photo-session, when BT went on ahead without him.. so presumably he was only a couple of minutes behind her, as.. how long does it take to pack up photog gear? So apparently he had told her to 'stay'?? That seems super strange to me, considering he's really right behind her. She must've said to him something like, 'I'm going to get going while you finish packing your gear because I've got to 'use' the RV'.. and so he responds with, 'Oh please stay'? Hmm. Even a 'wait', seems kind of odd, considering he would've been mere minutes behind her... just as easy for him to 'catch up', as it would've been for her to 'wait'. imo.

I don't think there was any gear for him to pack up. That's just speculation. And, according to dbdb11, RT said he "asked Barb to stay with me." MOO

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'
They were on their way back to the camper when Bob said his wife started pulling ahead. He told her he wanted to take a picture of a rock formation and as he put his camera away, he saw her rounding a corner.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Excellent point, whether beer was in a bottle/can, or in a travel mug, if they were at the tail end of a 2-mile walk, surely that beer would've been either long-gone by then, or warm and skunky, unless of course, RT was carrying with him a stash of cold ones on ice in addition to the gallon of water, but didn't mention the stash of beer, or that he'd been carrying it for her (she obviously couldn't have been carrying it on ice ahead of time, since she was said to be carrying nothing BUT the travel-mug/bottle/can of beer). I hope LE has thought of this too, and questioned appropriate parties about when, how, how long, etc., since it's the details like this that can get all tangled up for someone.

EXACTLY!!! Very well said

 

[Sunnymicki]

If it is not clear to LE and SAR where exactly RT said BT was when she went around the corner and he said 'that's the last I ever saw of her', it can't be clear to anyone else. We simply don't know where she was when he saw her 'rounding a corner' and then she disappeared.

(snipped by me)

This creates a lot of uncertainty on her last known location, IMO, and the circumstances of her disappearance. MOO.

From Media Thread (BBM):

JUL 17, 2019
Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'
[...]

Robert says they had taken a short trip in their camper when they decided to pull up and go for a 2-mile walk to explore rock formations. They took a pack, beer and a gallon of water...

They were on their way back to the camper when Bob said his wife started pulling ahead. He told her he wanted to take a picture of a rock formation and as he put his camera away, he saw her rounding a corner.

"That’s the last I ever saw of her," he said.

(snipped by me)

My guess is that the statements from LE regarding not knowing where RT was when BT rounded the corner, or for how long they were separated before she disappeared comes from the facts not adding up. I think they've determined that the information he gave them cannot be accurate (MOO of course). This is why:

RT stated he was done taking his pictures and was putting his camera away when he saw BT "rounding a corner." Presumably this means he was about to start walking back himself. Wouldn't he expect to catch sight of her again on the trail ahead of him after he rounded that same corner, given the relatively straight shot back to the RV? Unless he could see the RV at that point and expected BT had already gotten to it and gone inside.

My husband and I are trail runners. He routinely gets quite a bit ahead of me, and I am used to losing sight of him as he makes a turn, and then a bit later seeing him again as I make the turn myself. If I *don't* see him when I expect to, I am immediately scanning the side of the trail to make sure he didn't trip and knock himself unconscious on a tree, or pitch off the side of the mountain.

IMO, even if there had been some tension between them, if RT is correct in his recollection of events, he would have sensed something wasn't right when he couldn't see BT on the trail - unless the RV was pretty close.

So that narrows the amount of time that BT would have had to "disappear" considerably. If she was abducted on the side of the road, or wandered so far off trail that RT didn't see her as he walked by, it would have to happen in the amount of time it took RT to walk from his picture taking site to the corner that BT rounded, and to imagine that is quite a reach.

(I don't know that any of the above is actually my original thoughts lol. But after reading pages and pages to try to catch up with this thread, I had to type it out to get it straight in my head.)

 

[Cherwell]

And, according to dbdb11, RT said he "asked Barb to stay with me."

Like almost everything available to us, that's paraphrasing. Which is why IMO it's pointless to pore over tiny nuances in words which may or may not have been used.

 

[PommyMommy]

Like almost everything available to us, that's paraphrasing. Which is why IMO it's pointless to pore over tiny nuances in words which may or may not have been used.

It may be (paraphrasing), I don't know. dbdb11 put it in quotes, so I did the same, but you'd have to ask him. I agree that it's pointless, none of this helps find Barbara, but might as well get it straight if it's going to be discussed. MOO

 

[Cherwell]

It may be (paraphrasing), I don't know. dbdb11 put it in quotes. I agree that it's pointless, none of this helps find Barbara, but might as well get it straight if it's going to be discussed. MOO

But RT may have been paraphrasing himself when he spoke to dbdb11.
That's my point. Who remembers the exact words they use in an everyday comment?

 

[PommyMommy]

But RT may have been paraphrasing himself when he spoke to dbdb11.
That's my point. Who remembers the exact words they use in an everyday comment?

Okay, I didn't get that from your post. I thought you meant that dbdb11 was paraphrasing what RT said. This is starting to get a little out there, lol... I was simply pointing out that the word used was "stay" and not "wait" and I agree that none of it amounts to a hill of beans to begin with. MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Like almost everything available to us, that's paraphrasing. Which is why IMO it's pointless to pore over tiny nuances in words which may or may not have been used.

Right, RT could have actually said, "wait a minute" or "hold on a sec" or "stay a minute while I take a picture", and then when her relayed what happened to someone else said, "I asked her to stay." So I think it's impossible to know what his exact words were.
Maybe even RT doesn't recall exactly what he said. Imo