CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[Tillicum]

But RT may have been paraphrasing himself when he spoke to dbdb11.
That's my point. Who remembers the exact words they use in an everyday comment?

But it isn't an every day comment if it's the last words he ever spoke to her IMO.

 

[slowpoke]

Bolded by me:

My guess is that the statements from LE regarding not knowing where RT was when BT rounded the corner, or for how long they were separated before she disappeared comes from the facts not adding up. I think they've determined that the information he gave them cannot be accurate (MOO of course). This is why:

RT stated he was done taking his pictures and was putting his camera away when he saw BT "rounding a corner." Presumably this means he was about to start walking back himself. Wouldn't he expect to catch sight of her again on the trail ahead of him after he rounded that same corner, given the relatively straight shot back to the RV? Unless he could see the RV at that point and expected BT had already gotten to it and gone inside.

My husband and I are trail runners. He routinely gets quite a bit ahead of me, and I am used to losing sight of him as he makes a turn, and then a bit later seeing him again as I make the turn myself. If I *don't* see him when I expect to, I am immediately scanning the side of the trail to make sure he didn't trip and knock himself unconscious on a tree, or pitch off the side of the mountain.

IMO, even if there had been some tension between them, if RT is correct in his recollection of events, he would have sensed something wasn't right when he couldn't see BT on the trail - unless the RV was pretty close.

So that narrows the amount of time that BT would have had to "disappear" considerably. If she was abducted on the side of the road, or wandered so far off trail that RT didn't see her as he walked by, it would have to happen in the amount of time it took RT to walk from his picture taking site to the corner that BT rounded, and to imagine that is quite a reach.

(I don't know that any of the above is actually my original thoughts lol. But after reading pages and pages to try to catch up with this thread, I had to type it out to get it straight in my head.)

You would think so, yet we’ve heard from dbdb11 that when RT didn’t find her at the rv, he went to check a shaded cave to see if she was there, and then at that time dbdb11’s sister’s recollection is that RT
“still wasn’t worried at this point because.. i don’t remember why he said he wasn’t yet worried. maybe because they both knew the area? or this was a regular thing?”

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019

 

[CSIDreamer]

You know, after everything I've read about cholla I've came to a conclusion.

If I wandered into cholla in a bikini ... or whatever with the majority of my skin exposed ... I would be emitting earth shaking howls of pain that you could hear from a ways off.

 

[firstsleuth]

...respectfully snipped by me... Until THIS:

LE stated to MSM:

"Authorities are unaware of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared nor do they know how far she was from the RV at the time".

This creates a lot of uncertainty on her last known location, IMO, and the circumstances of her disappearance. MOO.

From Media Thread (BBM):

JUL 17, 2019
Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'
[...]

Robert says they had taken a short trip in their camper when they decided to pull up and go for a 2-mile walk to explore rock formations. They took a pack, beer and a gallon of water...

They were on their way back to the camper when Bob said his wife started pulling ahead. He told her he wanted to take a picture of a rock formation and as he put his camera away, he saw her rounding a corner.

"That’s the last I ever saw of her," he said.

JUL 19, 2019
Video: Husband of missing 69-year-old hiker says police consider him a suspect

• 
  
  
  • SBCSO says they are not releasing any information about the missing person investigation and interviews with family members.
  • Authorities also say they have no evidence the woman was abducted nor have they found any trace of her.
  • Rescuers resumed the search at daybreak using off-road vehicles, K9 units, hikers, and aerial support.
  • Authorities are unaware of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared nor do they know how far she was from the RV at the time.
  • Officials also say that they are unaware of any medical conditions that may have caused BT to become disoriented or lost.

Question for those more familiar with LE statements in missing person cases...

Are they sending a message to a suspected perpetrator?

I have no experience in WS before Barbara went missing...but it seems to me that they were. Just wondering if I’m reading too much into their words...

@Twistinginthewind I also was startled when I read their words

 

[Sunnymicki]

Bolded by me:


You would think so, yet we’ve heard from dbdb11 that when RT didn’t find her at the rv, he went to check a shaded cave to see if she was there, and then at that time dbdb11’s sister’s recollection is that RT
“still wasn’t worried at this point because.. i don’t remember why he said he wasn’t yet worried. maybe because they both knew the area? or this was a regular thing?”

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019

Yes, exactly. I think that lack of concern means that when RT saw BT round the corner, the RV was close enough that BT could logically assume she was in it when he didn't see her after HE roundedd the same corner. Meaning there was very little time for her to get lost/abducted/heat stroked before RT should have come upon her on or near the trail. It just doesn't add up the way he describes it.

 

[MsBetsy]

Question for those more familiar with LE statements in missing person cases...

Are they sending a message to a suspected perpetrator?

I have no experience in WS before Barbara went missing...but it seems to me that they were. Just wondering if I’m reading too much into their words...

@Twistinginthewind I also was startled when I read their words

What kind of message?
In other cases they might say something like, 'Someone must have seen something,' or 'if anybody knows something, please call the tip line, even the smallest detail might help,' or something that indicates they believe there was foul play involved.
In this case they just don't seem to know.
I think it just means that they don't know exactly when she went missing or that she met with foul play.
They must know the approximate time that RT says he last saw her, but for some reason have not revealed that. Imo

 

[Cherwell]

But it isn't an every day comment if it's the last words he ever spoke to her IMO.

That's hindsight though. It still doesn't mean he'd remember his exact words.

Right, RT could have actually said, "wait a minute" or "hold on a sec" or "stay a minute while I take a picture", and then when he relayed what happened to someone else said, "I asked her to stay." So I think it's impossible to know what his exact words were.
Maybe even RT doesn't recall exactly what he said. Imo

My thoughts exactly.

 

[deugirtni]

I don't think there was any gear for him to pack up. That's just speculation. And, according to dbdb11, RT said he "asked Barb to stay with me." MOO

Husband of Woman Who Vanished During Mojave Desert Hike: 'I Just Want Her Back'
They were on their way back to the camper when Bob said his wife started pulling ahead. He told her he wanted to take a picture of a rock formation and as he put his camera away, he saw her rounding a corner.

I figured if he was 'putting his camera away', it must have been significant enough to make mention of it, else he could have just been with her instead of watching her round a corner, so I was imagining perhaps a lens, tripod, whatever, that maybe had to go back in their cases or something, which still wouldn't have taken more than a minute. Our VI mentioned at one point that he believed the couple used an old fashioned film camera based on photos he'd been sent.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I figured if he was 'putting his camera away', it must have been significant enough to make mention of it, else he could have just been with her instead of watching her round a corner, so I was imagining perhaps a lens, tripod, whatever, that maybe had to go back in their cases or something, which still wouldn't have taken more than a minute. Our VI mentioned at one point that he believed the couple used an old fashioned film camera based on photos he'd been sent.

If he has a tripod and special lenses, it would certainly take more than a couple minutes to put away. I am an (amateur), avid photographer, and I can lose hours at a time fascinated with whatever I am studying and photographing. The lighting, the angle, the lenses....I could see how he was absorbed and lost track of her.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[deugirtni]

When I read that the beer was in a travel cup (or whatever the term used) I pictured one of those insulated ones that keeps hot drinks hot and cold drinks cold.

It's not confirmed for sure which type of vessel the beer was in as RT has apparently said two different things, however in any case, I think an insulated travel mug will only keep beer cold for so long and especially in those kinds of temps; they were on the tail end of a 2 mile walk with at least one photoshoot at the end of it.

 

[deugirtni]

If he has a tripod and special lenses, it would certainly take more than a couple minutes to put away. I am an (amateur), avid photographer, and I can lose hours at a time fascinated with whatever I am studying and photographing. The lighting, the angle, the lenses....I could see how he was absorbed and lost track of her.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Sure, *if* he'd still been taking photos, but he said he was putting his camera away, so I take that as he was already finished with the photo-taking and was now putting his stuff away when she rounded the corner out of his sight, which suggests he couldn't have been far behind.

 

[Side Sleuth]

She was found quite quickly though, wasnt she?
The quoted statement is dated a week after Barbara went missing.

IIRC Powell was found after four days. I still do not think the time someone is missing would cause the LE to decide that they no longer knew how much time existed between when the husband and wife were last seen together. Like another poster stated though, maybe that statement is related to what the LE does know that we are not privy to it.

 

[Nikynoo]

It may be (paraphrasing), I don't know. dbdb11 put it in quotes, so I did the same, but you'd have to ask him. I agree that it's pointless, none of this helps find Barbara, but might as well get it straight if it's going to be discussed. MOO

I can't remember, was this during a direct conversation between dbdb11 and RT or was it the retold conversation with dbdb11's sister and RT?

 

[Nikynoo]

But it isn't an every day comment if it's the last words he ever spoke to her IMO.

but perhaps he didn't know this?

 

[deugirtni]

Right, RT could have actually said, "wait a minute" or "hold on a sec" or "stay a minute while I take a picture", and then when her relayed what happened to someone else said, "I asked her to stay." So I think it's impossible to know what his exact words were.
Maybe even RT doesn't recall exactly what he said. Imo

The 'stay' part just hits me differently than if he had said 'I told her to wait up' or something.. I think about how it's common if there is a deceptive story-making to add in some truths to the mix.. and the 'stay' stands out for me, because to me, it would be something more likely to have been said along with 'please don't leave me', or 'please stay', or 'please don't leave on that trip', or 'please don't leave mad', or something.. whereas if they were almost back to the RV and she wanted to get going, I'd figure his choice of wording would be more like 'hang on, just packing up', or 'almost done', 'be with you in a sec', 'wait up'.. just my feeling that the choice of the word 'stay' stands out. After all, we're only talking a matter of a couple of minutes.

Of course it's nuts to tear every word apart, but we only have what we have to go on, so that's basically what people do here in cases where something isn't adding up and we're waiting for news.

 

[Nerissa]

The 'stay' part just hits me differently than if he had said 'I told her to wait up' or something.. I think about how it's common if there is a deceptive story-making to add in some truths to the mix.. and the 'stay' stands out for me, because to me, it would be something more likely to have been said along with 'please don't leave me', or 'please stay', or 'please don't leave on that trip', or 'please don't leave mad', or something.. whereas if they were almost back to the RV and she wanted to get going, I'd figure his choice of wording would be more like 'hang on, just packing up', or 'almost done', 'be with you in a sec', 'wait up'.. just my feeling that the choice of the word 'stay' stands out. After all, we're only talking a matter of a couple of minutes.

Of course it's nuts to tear every word apart, but we only have what we have to go on, so that's basically what people do here in cases where something isn't adding up and we're waiting for news.

Yeah, I didn't want to get all Freudian....but 'stay with me' is another way of saying 'don't leave me'

JMO

 

[Nikynoo]

Sure, *if* he'd still been taking photos, but he said he was putting his camera away, so I take that as he was already finished with the photo-taking and was now putting his stuff away when she rounded the corner out of his sight, which suggests he couldn't have been far behind.

There has been much speculation on how far (in time and distance) apart RT and Barbara were. I did a little test whilst walking the dog yesterday evening, to see how far I could get in 5 minutes. It was a long leisurely walk and I average a 20 minute mile. I know the terrain/light is not the same as the desert, but it is a defined, fairly flat, fairly straight track.

The first picture is my starting point to the the furthest point in the picture and the second picture is taken from the furthest point in the first picture looking back at my starting point. The two pictures were taken 4 minutes apart.

 

[Nikynoo]

You know, after everything I've read about cholla I've came to a conclusion.

If I wandered into cholla in a bikini ... or whatever with the majority of my skin exposed ... I would be emitting earth shaking howls of pain that you could hear from a ways off.

but she was wearing knee high socks, so some protection.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Question for those more familiar with LE statements in missing person cases...

Are they sending a message to a suspected perpetrator?

I have no experience in WS before Barbara went missing...but it seems to me that they were. Just wondering if I’m reading too much into their words...

@Twistinginthewind I also was startled when I read their words

That's a good question, @firstsleuth. The statement by LE is unusual in my opinion based on my experience following other missing person cases like Barbara's. It would have been such a relief for her loved ones and reduced uncertainties for investigators about the "when" and "where" but not "what" happened to her, had LE been able to say something more definitive about confirmatory evidence. moo

 

[CSIDreamer]

but she was wearing knee high socks, so some protection.

She was? So she was protected up to her knees from barbs that probably go through socks. All I've heard is socks. Can you point me to "knee socks"? Thanks.

Plus, cholla grows much higher than the average knee.