CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[CSIDreamer]

JMO

I asked a professional photographer friend how long it takes to pack her gear. 5-7 minutes if she puts on all the lens caps and repacks correctly.

JMO

 

[Steelslady]

Question for those more familiar with LE statements in missing person cases...

Are they sending a message to a suspected perpetrator?

I have no experience in WS before Barbara went missing...but it seems to me that they were. Just wondering if I’m reading too much into their words...

@Twistinginthewind I also was startled when I read their words

I don't think so. They can't go by his word, they need evidence of when he actually last saw Barbara- video, photo taken, witnesses that saw them together. To my knowledge, I have not seen it reported that any witnesses have come forward and state that they saw RT and BT together at the area she went missing or at the area they were hiking.

 

[Steelslady]

but she was wearing knee high socks, so some protection.

My cats can scratch through my knee socks and cause a nasty long cut- imagine what Cholla could do?

 

[CSIDreamer]

"Authorities are unaware of how long RT and BT were separated before she disappeared nor do they know how far she was from the RV at the time".

Well, wait a minute and a half. Technically, she disappeared when RT last saw her. Which should be a pretty good estimate of where she was in relation to the RV.

There's that.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

The 'stay' part just hits me differently than if he had said 'I told her to wait up' or something.. I think about how it's common if there is a deceptive story-making to add in some truths to the mix.. and the 'stay' stands out for me, because to me, it would be something more likely to have been said along with 'please don't leave me', or 'please stay', or 'please don't leave on that trip', or 'please don't leave mad', or something.. whereas if they were almost back to the RV and she wanted to get going, I'd figure his choice of wording would be more like 'hang on, just packing up', or 'almost done', 'be with you in a sec', 'wait up'.. just my feeling that the choice of the word 'stay' stands out. After all, we're only talking a matter of a couple of minutes.

Of course it's nuts to tear every word apart, but we only have what we have to go on, so that's basically what people do here in cases where something isn't adding up and we're waiting for news.

Well, we don't really know the exact words he used, so there could be dozens of scenarios.

In my experience, people rarely relay a story to someone else using the exact words spoken at the time.
When I'm in a hurry to get to the bus stop and my daughter is moving slow in the morning, I might say, "you need to get moving." and later tell someone else, "I told her to hurry."
The same is true when others tell me a story about something they said.

And yes, it's true that this is what we do when we barely have any information to go by.

My point that it is hard to speculate when we don't have all the details and even fewer facts, especially when everyone interprets things differently. There is no way to come to a definitive conclusion when there are so many explanations for one statement.

And even if he did ask her to stay, there is no way to determine if he was being deceptive about why he said it. There is no indication that he didn't want her to go on the trip. The way I understood it was he asked her to stay because he stopped to take a picture.

Maybe he asked her to stay because he didn't want her going the rest of the way by herself. Maybe he didn't want to rush to catch up with her. Maybe he realized he had the water and she might get thirsty, or maybe he was just was being controlling and yelled at her to stay.

We may never know. Imo

 

[CSIDreamer]

My cats can scratch through my knee socks and cause a nasty long cut- imagine what Cholla could do?

Totally OT. I just successfully ran from my cat. She can get you through jeans, too.

 

[Nikynoo]

My cats can scratch through my knee socks and cause a nasty long cut- imagine what Cholla could do?

pretty painful I suspect!!

 

[Steelslady]

If I could ask LE one question- it would be, why no plea to the public to call in or come to the station if they saw her, to get a tighter time line as to when she was last officially seen by another person?

RT said he shouted for BT and waved his arms- surely one car must have gone by while he was doing that, right?

 

[Stripehaven]

You know, after everything I've read about cholla I've came to a conclusion.

If I wandered into cholla in a bikini ... or whatever with the majority of my skin exposed ... I would be emitting earth shaking howls of pain that you could hear from a ways off.

I agree. I think the idea of her wandering off trail seems very unlikely so I guess that leaves us with kidnapping

For anyone familiar with this exact type of terrain: would a kidnapper’s car, which must have been booking to get out of sight before RT came along after taking a couple of minutes to stow his camera, have been likely to raise a visible cloud of dust? Those can take a bit of time to settle IMO.

 

[Nikynoo]

She was? So she was protected up to her knees from barbs that probably go through socks. All I've heard is socks. Can you point me to "knee socks"? Thanks.

Plus, cholla grows much higher than the average knee.

there is a post on this thread I think, that mentioned tan lines - but I think its comes from either NAMUS or similar

 

[10ofRods]

It's not confirmed for sure which type of vessel the beer was in as RT has apparently said two different things, however in any case, I think an insulated travel mug will only keep beer cold for so long and especially in those kinds of temps; they were on the tail end of a 2 mile walk with at least one photoshoot at the end of it.

A Yeti will do it. It's frequently 100+ degrees where I live, and a Yeti (or similar) will keep my water fairly cold for a couple of hours - or more. I can fill it up at home and have it with me at work (no A/C in my office or most classrooms) and it'll still be cool 4 hours later.

Also, lots of desert beer drinkers are used to the last bit being warmer. I've heard there are even entire subcultures/cultures that prefer their beer less cold.

At any rate, even if she was no longer drinking it, she was still carrying it (according to RT).

I don't know what to make of LE statements. If you go to the SBCSD web page, you'll see quite a few missing person stories, and there are very few media statements regarding any of them, until the person is found.

I agree. I think the idea of her wandering off trail seems very unlikely so I guess that leaves us with kidnapping

For anyone familiar with this exact type of terrain: would a kidnapper’s car, which must have been booking to get out of sight before RT came along after taking a couple of minutes to stow his camera, have been likely to raise a visible cloud of dust? Those can take a bit of time to settle IMO.

No, not if the car were on the road (or even in the pullout, which unless they peeled out super fast, would not raise a large cloud of dust). I would expect said kidnapper to simply stop on the paved road (and really, it would take two people to enact a kidnap in this scenario, IMO). The pull out just isn't big enough to product a lot of dust.

You can't just grab a person, from outside your car, and stick them in your car. You have to open a door, get out, grab 'em, control 'em and put 'em inside the car.

Personally, I think kidnapping is very low on the list of probable reasons for her disappearance.

Obviously, at this point, nothing is outside the realm of possibility.

 

[PommyMommy]

I can't remember, was this during a direct conversation between dbdb11 and RT or was it the retold conversation with dbdb11's sister and RT?

I know it wasn't from his sister's text but as I said earlier, dbdb11 is the only one who can answer whether he spoke to RT, got an email, a text, heard it from his Dad, etc. I have no idea. MOO

 

[LAhiker]

I agree. I think the idea of her wandering off trail seems very unlikely so I guess that leaves us with kidnapping

For anyone familiar with this exact type of terrain: would a kidnapper’s car, which must have been booking to get out of sight before RT came along after taking a couple of minutes to stow his camera, have been likely to raise a visible cloud of dust? Those can take a bit of time to settle IMO.

As far as I know, Kelbaker Rd is paved, so if an abductor was driving on that, there shouldn't have been a cloud of dust. (The turnout with the truck/RV is dirt, but unclear why a kidnapper would've gone there. Hidden Hill Road is also dirt -- as I understand it, if an abductor grabbed her and went along there, there would've been a large tell-tale cloud of dust. But hard to see why a kidnapper would drive along Hidden Hill instead of going more quickly down Kelbaker.)

That said, I don't think kidnapping is the only other option.

For one thing, @sroad and others have noted that there are a bunch of little side trails there, so she could've gone down one of them without going through the cholla. I still think SAR would probably have found her, but who knows.

JMO

 

[Nikynoo]

She was? So she was protected up to her knees from barbs that probably go through socks. All I've heard is socks. Can you point me to "knee socks"? Thanks.

Plus, cholla grows much higher than the average knee.

here it is
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

Barbara Thomas

 

[CSIDreamer]

there is a post on this thread I think, that mentioned tan lines - but I think its comes from either NAMUS or similar

What does tan lines have to do with knee socks? I'm honestly confused and asking.

 

[LAhiker]

What does tan lines have to do with knee socks? I'm honestly confused and asking.

For a white woman, when you take off the socks you might look like you were wearing white knee socks, I guess. JMO

 

[Nikynoo]

What does tan lines have to do with knee socks? I'm honestly confused and asking.

someone commented and thats how I remembered they were knee high - I've found the post and the associated missing person link and it actually says 'tall' socks - Barbara Thomas

it was just an observation - i dont want a huge discussion on it

 

[CSIDreamer]

What does tan lines have to do with knee socks? I'm honestly confused

Dbm

 

[CSIDreamer]

someone commented and thats how I remembered they were knee high - I've found the post and the associated missing person link and it actually says 'tall' socks - Barbara Thomas

Ok, I think we're current with each other.

 

[K9Enzo]

If she was wearing knee high/ tall socks - I wonder if she was mimicking gaiters? I wear gaiters, even with shorts on. I don’t care. lol