CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[MsBetsy]

Or maybe they said , when asked, we don't know.

Yes, I don't see how they possibly could have known at that point. They didn't know at what point she actually disappeared. It could have been while she was on the trail, or after she had already got back to the RV.

To me it's just a general, vague statement made by the reporter that doesn't necessarily give us any idea what LE knows or what they believe.
So it's no different from any other information we have been given. Imo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes, I don't see how they possibly could have known at that point. They didn't know at what point she actually disappeared. It could have been while she was on the trail, or after she had already got back to the RV.

To me it's just a general, vague statement made by the reporter that doesn't necessarily give us any idea what LE knows or what they believe.
So it's no different from any other information we have been given. Imo

In my opinion a more fair question would be where was she last seen.

 

[MsBetsy]

Actually Jodi Miller, spokesperson for the SBSO, didn’t say where the speculation originated; she only said what created the speculation (the news coming out about Powell on 7/15), not who created the speculation.

IMO, I think it’s very interesting that the very next day it is RT who is speculating in an interview that BT was kidnapped.

I also wonder if the media had any influence in the kidnapping theory.
Once it was clear there was no evidence of an abduction, they seemed to lose all interest in the case. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

In my opinion a more fair question would be where was she last seen.

Yes, at least it would less confusing as to what exactly they were talking about by that statement.
If the reporters questions were, "At what point did she disappear, Did she make it back to the RV? What time was it when Robert last saw her?", then it makes sense that the summary of their answer would be vague. Imo

 

[CharlestonGal]

In my opinion a more fair question would be where was she last seen.

Wasn't she last seen by the workers at the dog kennel? Or did someone see her after that?

 

[Tillicum]

Wasn't she last seen by the workers at the dog kennel? Or did someone see her after that?

RT claims to have last seen her before she went around the corner.

 

[Richmond]

Wasn't she last seen by the workers at the dog kennel? Or did someone see her after that?

I guess one would have to add to that, “Where was she last seen by anyone other that RT?” Then I believe it is by the employees at the kennel that morning (that we know of).

 

[Yvettea]

I guess one would have to add to that, “Where was she last seen by anyone other that RT?” Then I believe it is by the employees at the kennel that morning (that we know of).

She was last seen by a neighbor as she and RT were leaving.

 

[Stripehaven]

Actually Jodi Miller, spokesperson for the SBSO, didn’t say where the speculation originated; she only said what created the speculation (the news coming out about Powell on 7/15), not who created the speculation.

IMO, I think it’s very interesting that the very next day it is RT who is speculating in an interview that BT was kidnapped.

Yeah, and RT seemed very sold on the idea, quite adamant that BT was taken. The tone of his voice in the TV interview was IMO rather insistent. “She WAS wearing a bikini, she WAS carrying a beer, she DID have to cross the road...” He may not have originated the story but he’s all in. Perhaps he believes, as I do, that it seems highly unlikely that BT would have lost the trail and vanished in such a short window. Kidnapping might seem more likely to him.

Also, when he described the items they took in their walk he never mentioned tripods, extra lenses, etc. For all we know he just had a small digital camera (because he provided time-stamped photos, right? Per the case detective via our VI) and “putting his camera away” may have just meant shoving it in his pocket.

I feel like he would have elaborated if he’d had to take the time to stow away lots of equipment. More wiggle room for someone to spot and take BT. IMO.

 

[Richmond]

She was last seen by a neighbor as she and RT were leaving.

Yes, thanks, I forgot about the neighbor. So other than RT, she was seen the morning of her disappearance by kennel employees and by a neighbor.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I don't think it confuses the issue, or "muddys the waters." As you said the distance could have been anything.

After all we do not know how much actual time had passed between the time he took the picture and actually started walking again or how far she was already ahead of him.

A poster upthread said it took them about 10 minutes to put all their camera gear away. I had pictured him just snapping a picture and sticking the camera back in the bag. (like what I would do) I didn't realize there might have been several parts to put away.

Also we do not know how fast Barbara walked or how fast RT walked.
It's reasonable to assume if Barbara had to use the bathroom she would be walking as fast as she could.

Robert may have been walking slowly since he had no idea she was missing at that time and had no reason to rush.

Jmo

Agree- everyone seems to be interpreting his statements as if he had a stop-watch that he set immediately when he turned his back, as if he had a video recording of every word they said to each other, as if he had a precise GPS track of his position down to the inch. Eyewitness testimony is the worst sort of testimony because everything about how we remember events is clouded by our inherent biases and attention. Everything an eye-witness says has huge error-bars around it.

In reality we all estimate how long events last or the the interval between them very poorly. 5 minutes ahead could easily have actually been 15-20 minutes (the difference between her being 1/4 mile ahead and a mile ahead depending on her speed of walking).

Investigators have to try and add accuracy to the estimates a witness gives by corroborating that testimony with evidence. Is there a photograph that he took when they separated? what is the time stamp? where must he have stood to take it? Does his phone have a location history? Does it match his story closely enough?

The problem with this case is that we have absolutely no empirical evidence, only a witness statement.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, thanks, I forgot about the neighbor. So other than RT, she was seen the morning of her disappearance by kennel employees and by a neighbor.

I don't think LE has ever verified when someone other than RT saw her, so I guess it's possible they could have identified her on a surveillance somewhere before they arrived to their destination, like a store or a gas station.
If they did we don't know. Imo

 

[Kittybunny]

Yes, thanks, I forgot about the neighbor. So other than RT, she was seen the morning of her disappearance by kennel employees and by a neighbor.

Yes, if it wasn't for this, I would be inclined to be even MORE suspicious of RT. Many cases we have followed include the ol' "She disappeared in the middle of the night/was gone when I woke up/walked off without her purse, etc" narrative and don't end up well.

 

[dbdb11]

I don't think it confuses the issue, or "muddys the waters." As you said the distance could have been anything.

After all we do not know how much actual time had passed between the time he took the picture and actually started walking again or how far she was already ahead of him.

A poster upthread said it took them about 10 minutes to put all their camera gear away. I had pictured him just snapping a picture and sticking the camera back in the bag. (like what I would do) I didn't realize there might have been several parts to put away.

Also we do not know how fast Barbara walked or how fast RT walked.
It's reasonable to assume if Barbara had to use the bathroom she would be walking as fast as she could.

Robert may have been walking slowly since he had no idea she was missing at that time and had no reason to rush.

Jmo

fair enough.

but if i say she could have been waiting for him just beyond his line of sight, or robert may have already finished 'packing' his camera away and decided to walk back in the opposite direction of the RV to see how long he could make his shadow under the midday sun...

that doesnt clear things up. that kicks up mud and silt. according to roberts account, which imo has some issues, he stopped to take a pic. he asked her to wait. he was done putting away his 'gear' when she rounded the corner and 'that was the last he ever saw if her'.

so yes, adding speculation about her being a quarter hour ahead rather than a quarter mile ahead is not helpful. adding baseless speculation by thread # seven no less is detrimental to progress. we already know roberts story could be hogwash. if we base understanding on what RT has so far said, why add baseless queries like this? to what end is it useful in finding barb?

 

[Richmond]

I don't think LE has ever verified when someone other than RT saw her, so I guess it's possible they could have identified her on a surveillance somewhere before they arrived to their destination, like a store or a gas station.
If they did we don't know. Imo

I believe our VI, @dbdb11, verified these two sightings of BT the morning she disappeared. I trust that his information is correct. I think members can choose to believe VI statements or not; I choose to believe his statements.

 

[Jade]

Robert clearly did not cook up the kidnapping story (as has been suggested), Jodi Miller on July 22:

The notion that Barbara may have been abducted became public after a different hiker, Shirley Powell, who was missing for days in a different national park 300 miles away, was rescued (July 15). After being found, she described being chased by a knife-wielding man.

"When that information started coming out about [the other woman], that's what created the speculation [that Barbara had been abducted] but our investigation does not indicate any signs that she was abducted,' Miller said.

California police say missing hiker who vanished 'in her bikini' was NOT abducted | Daily Mail Online

It is just that Robert did his interview on July 16, a day after Powell was found. Jodi Miller made her statement a week later, at that point she was able to say no signs of abduction.
It is she though who said where the kidnapping speculation originated, and it wasn't from Robert. IMO

That is not correct:


Robert’s interview was July 15 and aired nearly simultaneous with the hospital bed interview in which SP’s family presented the run off by the knife wielding man instead of getting lost information.


On the media thread the poster Oviedo has a link labeled first mention of abduction:

Man says police think he is a suspect in wife's disappearance


The article its self is dated: Posted: 6:32 PM, Jul 15, 2019

Robert believes she might have been picked up. Their trailer was parked near a road and he thinks someone might have take Barbara while she was crossing the road.


He’s asking people in surrounding areas, including Las Vegas, to be on high alert.


He says if anyone did pick her up, he won’t press charges. He just wants her home safe.


“I just want my wife back and if somebody out there has her, which I feel somebody does, please drop her off at a safe place where she can contact us and that’s it,” says Thomas.

​

The Inyo County Sheriff’s office Facebook page announces SP found at 2:00 on July 15

At 6:00, July 15, the Inyo County Sheriff’s office update said no further information at this time.

The earliest MSM report, I can find, with information from SP’s family saying she was not lost but instead scared off with a knife wielding man is 4:00, July 15.

Latest: Family: California hiker chased by man with knife

Majority of media reports with SP’s family interview from the hospital bed declaring she was chased by a man with a knife where not until 6:00 news.

The spokeswoman's comment of the 22nd is of public speculation, imo.

On July 16th is the first LE statement of anything other than lost when the Inyo County Sheriff’s office releases what they term “Mrs. Powell’s recounting of event”.

​

 

[MsBetsy]

fair enough.

but if i say she could have been waiting for him just beyond his line of sight, or robert may have already finished 'packing' his camera away and decided to walk back in the opposite direction of the RV to see how long he could make his shadow under the midday sun...

that doesnt clear things up. that kicks up mud and silt. according to roberts account, which imo has some issues, he stopped to take a pic. he asked her to wait. he was done putting away his 'gear' when she rounded the corner and 'that was the last he ever saw if her'.

so yes, adding speculation about her being a quarter hour ahead rather than a quarter mile ahead is not helpful. adding baseless speculation by thread # seven no less is detrimental to progress. we already know roberts story could be hogwash. if we base understanding on what RT has so far said, why add baseless queries like this? to what end is it useful in finding barb?

Yes, unfortunately most of our speculation has been based on assumptions rather than facts, but I think everyone is just trying to help figure out what happened to Barbara. We just have very little to go on. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

I believe our VI, @dbdb11, verified these two sightings of BT the morning she disappeared. I trust that his information is correct. I think members can choose to believe VI statements or not; I choose to believe his statements.

I'm not doubting the information at all, in fact that was very important in determining when they left. (LE has never released that information) That's what we have been going by the whole time. It's also what prompted the discussion as to what kind of mood Barbara may have been in.

But it does not mean that LE may not have seen her somewhere else at a different time.

I was referring to facts that have been verified by LE, and there is still a lot we don't know. Imo

 

[LietKynes]

That is not correct:


Robert’s interview was July 15 and aired nearly simultaneous with the hospital bed interview in which SP’s family presented the run off by the knife wielding man instead of getting lost information.


On the media thread the poster Oviedo has a link labeled first mention of abduction:

Man says police think he is a suspect in wife's disappearance


The article its self is dated: Posted: 6:32 PM, Jul 15, 2019

Robert believes she might have been picked up. Their trailer was parked near a road and he thinks someone might have take Barbara while she was crossing the road.


He’s asking people in surrounding areas, including Las Vegas, to be on high alert.


He says if anyone did pick her up, he won’t press charges. He just wants her home safe.


“I just want my wife back and if somebody out there has her, which I feel somebody does, please drop her off at a safe place where she can contact us and that’s it,” says Thomas.

​

The Inyo County Sheriff’s office Facebook page announces SP found at 2:00 on July 15

At 6:00, July 15, the Inyo County Sheriff’s office update said no further information at this time.

The earliest MSM report, I can find, with information from SP’s family saying she was not lost but instead scared off with a knife wielding man is 4:00, July 15.

Latest: Family: California hiker chased by man with knife

Majority of media reports with SP’s family interview from the hospital bed declaring she was chased by a man with a knife where not until 6:00 news.

The spokeswoman's comment of the 22nd is of public speculation, imo.

On July 16th is the first LE statement of anything other than lost when the Inyo County Sheriff’s office releases what they term “Mrs. Powell’s recounting of event”.

Lavender Bolding mine

First bolded : I fully agree.
It's important to present facts about what RT has stated, and not just useless guesses or baseless speculation.

Second bolded : Was looking for this link, @Jade ; thanks.
What an odd choice of words. "... and that's it."
As in, it's all over and forgiven and everything is fine.
No need for further investigation as to why she was even held in the first place ; as RT insisted she was kidnapped.
And no charges pressed.
Nothing.

 

[Leney]

That is not correct:

​

The Inyo County Sheriff’s office Facebook page announces SP found at 2:00 on July 15

At 6:00, July 15, the Inyo County Sheriff’s office update said no further information at this time.

The earliest MSM report, I can find, with information from SP’s family saying she was not lost but instead scared off with a knife wielding man is 4:00, July 15.

Latest: Family: California hiker chased by man with knife

Majority of media reports with SP’s family interview from the hospital bed declaring she was chased by a man with a knife where not until 6:00 news.

The spokeswoman's comment of the 22nd is of public speculation, imo.

On July 16th is the first LE statement of anything other than lost when the Inyo County Sheriff’s office releases what they term “Mrs. Powell’s recounting of event”.

SBM

I believe the family members posted on social media prior to the SO statement, and media reports.