CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[al66pine]

Cause of Time Lag in RT's Return to RV?

....Also, when he described the items they took in their walk he never mentioned tripods, extra lenses, etc. For all we know he just had a small digital camera (because he provided time-stamped photos, right? Per the case detective via our VI) and “putting his camera away” may have just meant shoving it in his pocket....

@Stripehaven Thanks for your post. snipped & bbm. Agreeing w ^: stowing a small digital cam or cell w cam takes virtually no time.
But after BT went around the corner out of his sight, RT could have pulled gear out and continued taking pix (or doing what-ev) as long as he wanted - 15 min? 30 min? Longer? - before he headed back toward RV.
^ short time lag depends on accuracy of RT's stmt to LE. Longer lag is jmo

 

[?mysterian?]

BBM

Entirely possible.
Not saying that it was taken that day as we really do not know.
But if LE have bothered RT by questioning his account of that day-- they may have annoyed him to the point where he will not answer any more questions and won't give any further interviews.

This has to be so frustrating for Barbara's family.

LE need to release any more pertinent information for this case to move forward.

Respectfully, perhaps the case is moving forward in LE's point of view. They are under no obligation to release any information about the investigation to the public. It's frustrating to us because we want to know everything, but by not releasing information, they maintain the integrity of the investigation. All this is MOO.

 

[10ofRods]

Here's a pic of the trailhead, taken on google maps from the parking lot.

As you can see, it curves slightly and a person would be out of view in that direction within about 50 yards. It curves to the right. The hills in the distance require technical climbing skills for most people, but to the right, you can see lower hills that are probably the ones they climbed (according to RT). The trail bends to the right, then straightens again, but where it straightens, it also has a junction.

So...yes, he could have lost sight of her just as he said he did.

 

[LAhiker]

View attachment 199796

Here's a pic of the trailhead, taken on google maps from the parking lot.

As you can see, it curves slightly and a person would be out of view in that direction within about 50 yards. It curves to the right. The hills in the distance require technical climbing skills for most people, but to the right, you can see lower hills that are probably the ones they climbed (according to RT). The trail bends to the right, then straightens again, but where it straightens, it also has a junction.

So...yes, he could have lost sight of her just as he said he did.

Thanks for this. Did RT say that he and BT had climbed hills other than taking the 360 picture, or are you referring to that?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Cause of Time Lag in RT's Return to RV?

@Stripehaven Thanks for your post. snipped & bbm. Agreeing w ^: stowing a small digital cam or cell w cam takes virtually no time.
But after BT went around the corner out of his sight, he could have just continued taking pix (or doing what-ev) as long as he wanted - 15 min? 30 min? Longer? - before he headed back toward RV. jmo

You know the thing about whether he dilly dallied or not. Her route to the RV was still the same, as was his. The only difference is Barbara could have had to wait longer in air conditioning or in a lawn chair.

JMO

 

[Hair of the Dog]

IMO SBCSO investigators did a pretty awesome job on the McStay case. I have a lot of confidence in their ability to collect and assimilate records and evidence collected in the desert.

 

[LietKynes]

My guess is that the photos are now part of a criminal investigation.

They could crop the photos (the way they did with the one already released) to show exactly what she was wearing that day and a bit more of the background, so would-be searchers could help out.

However, if they are considering the entire case as a potentially criminal case, and the photos are part of it, they probably won't release them. Also, they won't want people going out there to disturb a potential crime scene (or, perhaps, to encounter the criminal abductors/wrong doers that are obviously lurking).

BBM

Respectfully, perhaps the case is moving forward in LE's point of view. They are under no obligation to release any information about the investigation to the public. It's frustrating to us because we want to know everything, but by not releasing information, they maintain the integrity of the investigation. All this is MOO.

It looks like this could be where Barbara's case is heading.

 

[Cherwell]

There is so little to go on in this case. These are the things I try to avoid:

1. Believing everything I read in the press, or taking it too literally.
2. Drawing the conclusion that something has not happened or did not take place or was not said merely because it has not been reported or made public.
3. Over-analysing things that have been said, especially if they are not direct quotes but paraphrases.

If I assume that Robert had nothing to do with Barbara's disappearance (and of course I can't say that he didn't) and I put myself into his position, I could understand some of the things that are troubling people.

I don't believe he really thinks that she was abducted. He might want to think it, because it offers a chance that she is alive and well, but he knows that's a vain hope. Hence the rather half-hearted message to the abductors.

I do think the abduction idea might have been sparked by the Powell case. RT may not be active on social media, but I expect members of his family are, and it was probably picked up by one of them.

I think it's very likely that there is more to the slim account that we have been given, and that there hasn't been full disclosure, at least in those initial interviews. That they possibly had "words" before parting company. That he might have hung around a lot longer taking photos than he admitted. So in short, no I don't necessarily buy that story as it stands. It's tempting to leave out details that make us feel ashamed or embarrassed. He may well have been more forthcoming with the police though.

But as always, this is just speculation.

 

[LietKynes]

You know the thing about whether he dilly dallied or not. Her route to the RV was still the same, as was his. The only difference is Barbara could have had to wait longer in air conditioning or in a lawn chair.

JMO

Agreed.

I still want to know if RT had packed everything away incl. the chairs when LE arrived ?
Tidied up and ready to leave.

 

[ZsaZsa]

You would think that if she was abducted as RT said, as she crossed the road, they would have at least found the beer she was carrying, somewhere near.

 

[10ofRods]

Thanks for this. Did RT say that he and BT had climbed hills other than taking the 360 picture, or are you referring to that?

Yes, I'm referring to those. There are small hills to the right (in the above photo) plus a few more rises next to those - and a couple more small hills just past the creek bed.

RT states he was made to stay inside the squad car while the search was initially under way. One can see in the later pictures posted by SAR that the sandstone boulder area (which is part of the small hill system to the right) has climbers and, IIRC, dogs searching it (that's where the crevices are), but not on the first night.

So RT didn't get a chance, presumably, to do much more than point out where he lost sight of Barbara and LE took over from there. LE arrived at 5:30, not sure when SAR arrived but Nixle report says 20 searchers that first day, ending just after midnight, Friday night.

Dusk was just after 8 pm, so they searched in the dark that night. Obviously, if Barbara was conscious and in the area, and able to move, she would have seen the search and self-rescued. The temps would have gone down and presumably, if she was still alive and had been suffering from hyperthermia, she would have been feeling better by 10 pm, as temperatures went down. If it was severe hyperthermia, then perhaps not. But if she survived that afternoon, unconscious in the desert (which is the only possible explanation, IMO, for her to still be lost at 8 pm) then she was very dehydrated and ill by the time the sun came up and the heat began to rise.

Still, the searchers were back out there, early. Where could she have gone? How far could she have gotten that first day, if she was mad/confused and stalked off in some random direction?

Did the search end when LE figured out something from the couple's digital footprint?

LE behaved, up until that next Saturday anyway, as if Barbara could still be out there.

Meanwhile, they gave RT a polygraph and a couple of days after the search ended, RT got a lawyer (who is, I believe, a criminal defense attorney - can someone confirm?)

 

[Stripehaven]

Cause of Time Lag in RT's Return to RV?

@Stripehaven Thanks for your post. snipped & bbm. Agreeing w ^: stowing a small digital cam or cell w cam takes virtually no time.
But after BT went around the corner out of his sight, RT could have pulled gear out and continued taking pix (or doing what-ev) as long as he wanted - 15 min? 30 min? Longer? - before he headed back toward RV.
^ short time lag depends on accuracy of RT's stmt to LE. Longer lag is jmo

Sure- but he never AFAWK mentioned photo equipment among the stuff they were toting.

 

[10ofRods]

Agreed.

I still want to know if RT had packed everything away incl. the chairs when LE arrived ?
Tidied up and ready to leave.

Has there ever been any confirmation that either the awning or the chairs were out? They planned to be out for an hour or two. I've never seen people leave their chairs at a desert pull out (if they did, then they were basically asking for someone to stop and take them, IMO). I can see pulling the awning out if they had lunch or something there beforehand. But most people wait until they get to a campground.

New RV owners don't usually just take out the awning near a road, because of the sand and dust, it just gets into the awning mechanism. Personally can't imagine sitting beside Kelbaker Road in 104F weather, getting grit in my margarita (or beer, in the case of Barbara). I'd be in the nice cool A/C (which comes standard on the Cougar 5th wheel).

 

[LietKynes]

You would think that if she was abducted as RT said, as she crossed the road, they would have at least found the beer she was carrying, somewhere near.

Yes.
That and/or the red/white hat.
If this was an abduction... there should've been evidence left behind.
But nada.

 

[Stripehaven]

View attachment 199796

Here's a pic of the trailhead, taken on google maps from the parking lot.

As you can see, it curves slightly and a person would be out of view in that direction within about 50 yards. It curves to the right. The hills in the distance require technical climbing skills for most people, but to the right, you can see lower hills that are probably the ones they climbed (according to RT). The trail bends to the right, then straightens again, but where it straightens, it also has a junction.

So...yes, he could have lost sight of her just as he said he did.

I agree, but I bet she wouldn’t have wandered off the trail, even out of RT’s sight. IMO of course

 

[CrimeDawg123]

This is purely a random thought about BT urgently heading back to the RV - if you are an "experienced hiker", and you have to use the bathroom, you are not going to rush back to the RV to do it. You are simply going to drop trow right where you are.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yes, I'm referring to those. There are small hills to the right (in the above photo) plus a few more rises next to those - and a couple more small hills just past the creek bed.

RT states he was made to stay inside the squad car while the search was initially under way. One can see in the later pictures posted by SAR that the sandstone boulder area (which is part of the small hill system to the right) has climbers and, IIRC, dogs searching it (that's where the crevices are), but not on the first night.

So RT didn't get a chance, presumably, to do much more than point out where he lost sight of Barbara and LE took over from there. LE arrived at 5:30, not sure when SAR arrived but Nixle report says 20 searchers that first day, ending just after midnight, Friday night.

Dusk was just after 8 pm, so they searched in the dark that night. Obviously, if Barbara was conscious and in the area, and able to move, she would have seen the search and self-rescued. The temps would have gone down and presumably, if she was still alive and had been suffering from hyperthermia, she would have been feeling better by 10 pm, as temperatures went down. If it was severe hyperthermia, then perhaps not. But if she survived that afternoon, unconscious in the desert (which is the only possible explanation, IMO, for her to still be lost at 8 pm) then she was very dehydrated and ill by the time the sun came up and the heat began to rise.

Still, the searchers were back out there, early. Where could she have gone? How far could she have gotten that first day, if she was mad/confused and stalked off in some random direction?

Did the search end when LE figured out something from the couple's digital footprint?

LE behaved, up until that next Saturday anyway, as if Barbara could still be out there.

Meanwhile, they gave RT a polygraph and a couple of days after the search ended, RT got a lawyer (who is, I believe, a criminal defense attorney - can someone confirm?)

Has anyone marked a spot that's 1/4 mile from the RV on the satellite map of that trail?

 

[Hair of the Dog]

Agreed.

I still want to know if RT had packed everything away incl. the chairs when LE arrived ?
Tidied up and ready to leave.

I almost look at leaving the chairs out while they were walking an indication that they didn't intend to go far or be gone long. If they took the precaution of hiding their key under a rock, it seems like they wouldn't want to leave their belongings unattended or why even set their chairs up until they got back from their walk?

MOO

 

[Tillicum]

Just wanted to post this video link. In it RT clearly says "She wanted to be at the RV". Some of the videos were hard to understand what that fourth word was IMO. I think some thought he said "She wanted to use the RV"?
Video: The search continues for 69-year-old hiker Barbara Thomas

 

[Tillicum]

Just wanted to post this video link. In it RT clearly says "She wanted to be at the RV". Some of the videos were hard to understand what that fourth word was IMO. I think some thought he said "She wanted to use the RV"?
Video: The search continues for 69-year-old hiker Barbara Thomas

ETA I wish the reporter had followed up with "Was she over heated or feeling ill?".