CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[Chelly]

Has there ever been any confirmation that either the awning or the chairs were out? They planned to be out for an hour or two. I've never seen people leave their chairs at a desert pull out (if they did, then they were basically asking for someone to stop and take them, IMO). I can see pulling the awning out if they had lunch or something there beforehand. But most people wait until they get to a campground.

New RV owners don't usually just take out the awning near a road, because of the sand and dust, it just gets into the awning mechanism. Personally can't imagine sitting beside Kelbaker Road in 104F weather, getting grit in my margarita (or beer, in the case of Barbara). I'd be in the nice cool A/C (which comes standard on the Cougar 5th wheel).

Has there been any confirmation that Barbara was actually there to begin with?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Wonder why LE won't release any last photos ?
They released the last video security cam footage of Shannan Watts , and the last footage of Hannah Graham who was killed by the same man who killed Morgan Harrington .

IIRC our VI said LE had photographic evidence that Barbara was in the area her husband said she went missing that day based on what he had on his camera, and that is why they searched for 9 days, but still 'found no evidence of Barbara Thomas'.

Maybe photos taken that day of BT by RT were considered key evidence of some sort that LE is saving as exhibits for a future trial, and they don't want to or need to make public because they already know what she was wearing and don't want to share any fresh photos of her off the camera of the person she was last seen by, because they don't consider him reliable for whatever reasons.

I hope it's something like that, and not something awful like she had wounds or was in a different spot than he said she was based on landmarks.

MOO

 

[iscaremyself]

I agree, but I bet she wouldn’t have wandered off the trail, even out of RT’s sight. IMO of course

I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

IMO SBCSO investigators did a pretty awesome job on the McStay case. I have a lot of confidence in their ability to collect and assimilate records and evidence collected in the desert.

I agree, and in the Erin Corwin case they did amazing work, searching for months until they found her. MOO

 

[kay74]

I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout.

WOW So you missed the trail coming back! That must have happened to her. Ok that tells me she is out there somewhere.

 

[10ofRods]

IMO SBCSO investigators did a pretty awesome job on the McStay case. I have a lot of confidence in their ability to collect and assimilate records and evidence collected in the desert.

I do too, but I think it helps if the case is in the public eye, like the McStay case. Families can really help do that (but so can we, as members of the public).

This is purely a random thought about BT urgently heading back to the RV - if you are an "experienced hiker", and you have to use the bathroom, you are not going to rush back to the RV to do it. You are simply going to drop trow right where you are.

I am going to respectfully disagree. If I'm a quarter mile from a restroom, I'm *not* (ever) going to drop trou where I can be seen by people on the road or people walking by, nor am I fond if the idea of peeing where other people are forced to walk, much less pooping. I know we are all different.

But the main reason I think a person heads to shade/shelter out there is heat. It was 2:00 pm. It had gone from 100F to about 105F as they walked. She was hot and dehydrated and just wanted to be in a cooler place (their new 5th wheel). Plus of course she needed to use the restroom.

And she didn't rush. She just walked back. RT apparently didn't rush either, he packed up his stuff. What we don't know is how long that took him.

In the following picture, it's about a quarter mile from the parking area (which is beneath the compass in my screen shot) and the gray pin marker. In other words, that first intersection. Presumably, RT headed north (to the top) on that spur trail. Presumably, Barbara headed east, to the RV (although if she was confused, she might have walked off south - on that other trail).

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Just wanted to post this video link. In it RT clearly says "She wanted to be at the RV". Some of the videos were hard to understand what that fourth word was IMO. I think some thought he said "She wanted to use the RV"?
Video: The search continues for 69-year-old hiker Barbara Thomas

It is hard to interpret what he said because while he said it, he turned his head away and mumbled. MOO
ETA: I think what's important is him saying she was on her way back to the RV because she wanted to go there -- to cool off, to pee, to get a drink, to rest. I would do the same after walking 2 miles in 100 degree heat.

 

[Cherwell]

I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout.

That's very interesting, because it has been speculated that Barbara might have done exactly that.

And if she did reach the road I suppose it's not outside the bounds of possibility that she accepted a lift if someone stopped.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Pardon me if I missed it, but has there been any discussion of footprints? That sandy desert terrain should show footprints fairly well, though maybe not very distinctively, especially if anyone went off trail.

 

[katydid23]

I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout.

WOW So you missed the trail coming back! That must have happened to her. Ok that tells me she is out there somewhere.

But BT was already on the trail. She did not need to cut across the desert because she was on the trail, in sight of the RV, and only 1/4 of a mile from the a/c and cold water.

 

[LAhiker]

Yes, I'm referring to those. There are small hills to the right (in the above photo) plus a few more rises next to those - and a couple more small hills just past the creek bed.

RT states he was made to stay inside the squad car while the search was initially under way. One can see in the later pictures posted by SAR that the sandstone boulder area (which is part of the small hill system to the right) has climbers and, IIRC, dogs searching it (that's where the crevices are), but not on the first night.

So RT didn't get a chance, presumably, to do much more than point out where he lost sight of Barbara and LE took over from there. LE arrived at 5:30, not sure when SAR arrived but Nixle report says 20 searchers that first day, ending just after midnight, Friday night.

Dusk was just after 8 pm, so they searched in the dark that night. Obviously, if Barbara was conscious and in the area, and able to move, she would have seen the search and self-rescued. The temps would have gone down and presumably, if she was still alive and had been suffering from hyperthermia, she would have been feeling better by 10 pm, as temperatures went down. If it was severe hyperthermia, then perhaps not. But if she survived that afternoon, unconscious in the desert (which is the only possible explanation, IMO, for her to still be lost at 8 pm) then she was very dehydrated and ill by the time the sun came up and the heat began to rise.

Still, the searchers were back out there, early. Where could she have gone? How far could she have gotten that first day, if she was mad/confused and stalked off in some random direction?

Did the search end when LE figured out something from the couple's digital footprint?

LE behaved, up until that next Saturday anyway, as if Barbara could still be out there.

Meanwhile, they gave RT a polygraph and a couple of days after the search ended, RT got a lawyer (who is, I believe, a criminal defense attorney - can someone confirm?)

BBM.

You call them hills, I call them rocks, or more properly, rock formations. Here are two screenshots from Google Earth, one showing the whole area with its various paths, and the other focused in on the larger rock formation on the south side of the creek bed, which I'm guessing was the goal of RT's and BT's walk.

That said, they look climbable, so maybe it doesn't matter what we call them. Still, I'm wondering whether RT would've referred to rock formation as a hill. Also, @dbdb11's sister recalled that RT in a call to family said BT took the 360 photo that morning, which doesn't fit with an early afternoon walk from Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. Again, the time-line is muddled. So maybe the 360 photo was taken from somewhere else??

On the other hand, if the 360 was taken from somewhere else, it's hard to see why RT thought the cars in the parking lot would be relevant to a possible abduction, unless he thought someone was following their truck or was clutching at straws. It's a conundrum.

also apparently she took a 360 picture that morning from on top of a hill and the photo included a parking lot with some vehicles in it so the police are looking into their license plates/info.

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, Bullhead City, hiking wearing bikini in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019

The 360 photo aside, that's definitely the area where RT said BT disappeared; I agree with your other points. (I don't know whether the specialities of RT's attorney have been discussed in MSM.)

JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout.

Did RT say they also went off the trail to "cut across north to the rocks"? I thought they stayed on the trail and took photos from there when they went to check out the rock formations, but I don't recall.
ETA: If there is no MSM link where RT stated BT went off the trail like this, then it's just adding to confusion about the facts to discuss this scenario. MOOOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Pardon me if I missed it, but has there been any discussion of footprints? That sandy desert terrain should show footprints fairly well, though maybe not very distinctively, especially if anyone went off trail.

There has been alot of discussion of footprints and whether there would be any, but it hasn't led anywhere.
LE "found no evidence of Barbara Thomas" after 9 days of searching.
The soil there is not sandy and fluffy, but more coarse and hardpacked, so footprints wouldn't typically be discernible.
The SAR dogs didn't lead LE to any location where they found any evidence of her anywhere in the search area, footprints or otherwise.
MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

Wonder why LE won't release any last photos ?
They released the last video security cam footage of Shannan Watts , and the last footage of Hannah Graham who was killed by the same man who killed Morgan Harrington .

Also last photos of Mollie, Kelsey, Maleah, Hania, Mackenzie, Serenity... SOP

Has anyone marked a spot that's 1/4 mile from the RV on the satellite map of that trail?

The map with the yellow line (which indicates 1 mile out) is from DianaElaine. The second map with the arrows is courtesy of ChuckMaureen. The red x's were added by me and represent 1/4 mile from where the RV was parked. MOO

 

[al66pine]

Lawyering Up? Not Talking?

...Is it possible RT is no longer talking to LE ?... So he's clamped up ?...
....We seem to be at square one since no information is given out by LE about the veracity of Barbara being at that place and time.

@LietKynes Thanks for your post. snipped for focus.

RT no longer talking to LE? Yes, imo, not talking. Why?
(a) Not wanting to talk to LE is generally No. 1 reason for lawyering up.
Esp for a man who was last person known to see missing wife, man who told media he was prime suspect, plus other 'unusual' stmts & circumstances, etc.
(b) And not being questioned/interviewed/interrogated by LE is generally the No. 1 result of a person's hiring legal counsel.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Also last photos of Mollie, Kelsey, Maleah, Hania, Mackenzie, Serenity... SOP

The map with the yellow line (which indicates 1 mile out) is from DianaElaine. The second map with the arrows is courtesy of ChuckMaureen. The red x's were added by me and represent 1/4 mile from where the RV was parked. MOO

View attachment 199829 View attachment 199830

Thanks for the maps. Very helpful. I do not understand why BT would have left the trail. It all looks pretty straightforward.

 

[10ofRods]

Pardon me if I missed it, but has there been any discussion of footprints? That sandy desert terrain should show footprints fairly well, though maybe not very distinctively, especially if anyone went off trail.

The trail itself is like baked mud. It's not really very sandy. In fact, the Mojave is mostly baked hard pan, which does disintegrate into blowing sand, but there's a constant wind and there's not a lot of sand for footprints. The gravel in parking areas gets crushed and the dirt is more churned up by tires, so there are definitely footprints on the road shoulder and the parking area. But, not a lot of consistent prints in much of the trail.

Not to mention that one would need to know Barb's shoe brand (I'm sure RT could provide the size, right?) No brand of shoe has been mentioned. By dark that night, the searchers needed to use the trail to try and find Barb, so they would have obliterated anything remaining (I think RT complained that tire tracks were obliterated as well).

Eventually, the sand winds up in places like Kelso Dunes, where foot prints are possible.

Also, search dogs can either pant or they can sniff; so in temperatures above 90F, most dogs need to pant more than they can sniff.

I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout.

I totally hear you. And there are numerous little trail like spaces that peter out into nothing (and some places where people have made trails by taking shortcuts). Water runs through there in winter and makes trail like spaces (which you can see in the map and I have more than once wandered off on one of those when I ought not).

However, in your case, you found the road. It would be really hard to miss the road. But Barbara could have wandered as far as half a mile or more south before she hit the road (and then been pretty anxious, even panicky, not to see the safety and shade of the RV).

 

[LietKynes]

IIRC our VI said LE had photographic evidence that Barbara was in the area her husband said she went missing that day based on what he had on his camera, and that is why they searched for 9 days, but still 'found no evidence of Barbara Thomas'.

Maybe photos taken that day of BT by RT were considered key evidence of some sort that LE is saving as exhibits for a future trial, and they don't want to or need to make public because they already know what she was wearing and don't want to share any fresh photos of her off the camera of the person she was last seen by, because they don't consider him reliable for whatever reasons.

I hope it's something like that, and not something awful like she had wounds or was in a different spot than he said she was based on landmarks.

MOO

Good point.

Even the VI has not seen the photos....
One would think Barbara's own family would demand to see them and sadly were told 'no' by LE ?

Hoping this weekend when we're all taking a forced break from WS that she'll be found, or there'll be significant evidence revealed .

 

[LietKynes]

Not to mention that one would need to know Barb's shoe brand (I'm sure RT could provide the size, right?) No brand of shoe has been mentioned. By dark that night, the searchers needed to use the trail to try and find Barb, so they would have obliterated anything remaining (I think RT complained that tire tracks were obliterated as well).
.

Snipped for focus.

That might've been helpful to know at the beginning if and when prints were discernible.
Just in case someone came across a hiking boot that matched the description.
In one of the Paulides missing 411 videos there was a replica of the clothing worn by one of the missing people, for searchers.

 

[MsBetsy]

WOW So you missed the trail coming back! That must have happened to her. Ok that tells me she is out there somewhere.

Well, it's hard to say whether or not that's what happened in Barbara's case but it would not surprise me if she made a wrong turn at some point and got lost.

It's great to hear from people who have been on that trail so we can have an idea of what it is like.

I have been on trails in the woods before and have had a hard time trying to go back the exact way I came but I'm not familiar with the desert.
Many trails have marks or arrows to indicate which way to go.
I wonder if there were any on the trail leading to the rock formations. Imo