CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[PommyMommy]

There are statements in MSM that it took LE 2 - 2.5 hours to arrive at the location he called from.
There is a 911 dispatch log that shows RT calling at 3:26 pm.
So LE would have arrived between about 5:30 and 6:00 pm.
LE interviewed RT and set up for searching for BT and did so that evening, and for the next 8 days.
MOO
ETA: This info is on the Media Thread with MSM links for Barbara

Where was it reported in MSM that it took 2 - 2.5 hours for LE to arrive? Best I recall, that's what RT told Barbara's brother. MOO

 

[iscaremyself]

Does anyone renember how many searchers there were?
I thought I read 20 but that can't be right.

a thread or two back someone posted a photo of SAR members at the turnout.. about 50 or so I'd say

 

[MsBetsy]

There are statements in MSM that it took LE 2 - 2.5 hours to arrive at the location he called from.
There is a 911 dispatch log that shows RT calling at 3:26 pm.
So LE would have arrived between 5:26 and 6:06 pm.
LE interviewed RT and set up for searching for BT and did so that evening, and for the next 8 days.
MOO

Oh, thank you, I thought it was quite awhile before LE arrived but I wasn't sure how long.
Well, in that case, there seems to have been plenty of time between the time she was last seen and the time they searched for her. She may have gotten very far by that time, if she did get lost. Imo

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thank you to those of you remaining victim friendly, or at least neutral and open minded. We don't know what happened out there, and we don't have important facts to fill in the blanks.

I've always admired WS for being Victim Friendly, professional, and a cut above . Thank you to those of you taking the high road until or *if* such time as new facts suggest we should consider anyone as a POI.

Peace and love to all, and praying Barb is found.
I guess the site will be down for a couple days? Happy trails to all until we meet again!

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Does anyone renember how many searchers there were?
I thought I read 20 but that can't be right.

This MSM link has been posted many times on Barbara's thread with whatever detail LE decided to provide on their SAR efforts and multiple updates - it's also on the Media Thread:
July 21st - The search for Barbara Thomas, age 69, is continuing in the area of Kelbaker/ Hidden ... from SBSD - Colorado River Sheriffs Department : Nixle

 

[al66pine]

LE Not Releasing Info re 'Veracity'?

....We seem to be at square one since no information is given out by LE about the veracity of Barbara being at that place and time.

@LietKynes Thanks for your post. snipped for focus.
Re no info given out by LE about veracity of BT being at that place and time.
IME, generally LE does not make stmts specifically about LE's perception of veracity of stmts made by spouses, SigOthers's, household members, et al, close to a reported MisPer.

In this case, LE took initial report, interviewed RT. In the area where he reported he last saw her, LE conducted extensive, intensive SAR efforts, until weather conditions were simply incompatible w life after ~ 9(?) days.
IIRC, at or near end of search, LE said, re BT's last known place & time, [my paraphrasing] RT said last seen ~ 1/4 -1/2 mi from Hwy Turnout at ~noon- 3:30pm, but [my paraphrasing] we have found no evidence of her presence there. As LE is not obligated to make any public announcement, what more should/could they say?

If LE thinks RT's stmts are ---
- accurate, LE can cont. searches as recovery missions, when SAR teams & deputies are avail., and weather permits in the future. If/when remains are located and depending on other results, LE could begin crim investigation.
- inaccurate, whether deliberately or due to confusion, memory issues, etc, and believes BT has been victim of foul play, LE can start a criminal investigation in which any/many could be a PoI or suspect.
jmo

 

[Nerissa]

Eh. LE knows what they're doing

Saying that they are not following up any leads @ abduction could merely be a strategy for all we know

What we DO KNOW is that they are not using the strategies typically used with a missing person...yes: they searched the area and said: no sign of BT

No appeals to the public No updates No releasing of last seen footage

JMO

 

[LAhiker]

I'm calling them "hills" because they are known as the Granite Hills (for one reason) and because people here have been referring to them as hills since I came onto this thread. Of course they are rock formations. From a distance, to many people driving by, they do look like "hills" (although all hills have rocks inside of them).

Some of them are way more climbable than others. The highest part of the Granite Hills would not, I think, be accessible in a mere 1-2 hour hike. They are the darker rocks, too, and the temps there would have been higher. I wish we knew exactly where they went, but I'd bet good money they didn't go to the dark, taller part of that set of rocks - they went to the sandstone outcropping to the north (probably) or maybe even the one north of the creekbed (from which that northern square parking lot is visible). We see in the search photos that the dogs and SAR personnel are in the sandstone area.

To me, it's inconceivable that she would leave RT, and instead of heading toward the road, walk toward the really obvious opposite direction to the tallest point in the area (the granite). I don't think she walked back up those sandstone rock formations, either. That would have been so exerting and she was tired and hot. MOO.

It is so confusing. If she did head back toward any part of the Granite Hills/rocks, those were searched, but boy is that a weird thing to do. If she chose the wrong trail and headed south, she'd still hit the road. If she went north, she'd have run into RT again, and if she went the proper direction (east), she'd be at the RV within 5-7 minutes even at a slow pace.

It's easy to go to the grim proposition of "she was in the desert that day, and may have been atop those rock formations, but that's not where she went missing."

Or...she was in a very different state of mind than a calm woman, perfectly healthy, attempting to get to her RV for A/C and a brew.

1. Granite Hills from the RV's POV (with the sandstone boulders to the right):

2. Granite Hills closer up, with better pictures of the sandstone boulders:

I've been inviting a few Mojave-based community groups to stop by this thread, so I keep posting the photos (ATV users, archers, rock collectors).

Okay, I guess I'll join the local community in calling them hills. Maybe. I guess the question is, would RT have done so? I'm still not sure that the 360 photo was necessarily taken on that walk, given that it was said to have been taken in the morning. But's it's certainly possible and possible that the small parking lot a bit further up Kelbaker was what was seen. If that was it, RT's saying LE should look into the people who had cars in that lot would fit with his stated theory that BT was abducted.

As for whether BT would've gone back up the sandstone rock formations or granite hills if she got lost, I agree that that would've been strange, especially if she was in earshot of the road. (Sometimes when lost it does make sense to go to a high point. You can see where you are and people can see you. I think that what sometimes causes problems finding lost hikers is that they naturally go down to stream beds to get water -- and sometimes because they think following the stream will bring them back to more inhabited areas -- and then they are harder for searchers to see from the air or from higher ground.)

But it would be odd for someone to do so in this situation, and hard if they were suffering from heat exhaustion or dehydration. If she was delirious from one of those conditions, she might try to do something like that, but I doubt she'd have had the physical ability. Maybe that possibility was one reason SAR was searching in the rocks. JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Where was it reported in MSM that it took 2 - 2.5 hours for LE to arrive? Best I recall, that's what RT told Barbara's brother. MOO

I'll have to look back and see if I can confirm this, and learn better how to search the Media Thread and main thread for specifics to readily link to. Will report back on Monday when WS reopens. Have a great weekend everyone!

 

[MsBetsy]

We can look two ways at LE:

They don't care about BT

Or they've a good darn idea what's happened & don't need our help

I'm convinced it's the latter

JMO

Yeah, it's pretty clear they don't need any help from the public.
They would have asked long ago if that were the case, especially if there was any evidence of foul play. Imo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If BT took a wrong turn and ended up at the road but not near the RV, I wonder if there are any culverts under the road and whether they might have appeared to offer shade to someone overcome by heat.

 

[MsBetsy]

This MSM link has been posted many times on Barbara's thread with whatever detail LE decided to provide on their SAR efforts and multiple updates - it's also on the Media Thread:
July 21st - The search for Barbara Thomas, age 69, is continuing in the area of Kelbaker/ Hidden ... from SBSD - Colorado River Sheriffs Department : Nixle

Thank you! I only remember that by Tuesday they had nearly 20 searchers.
I guess by Saturday they had about eighty searchers so I can see why they may have missed any sign of her in the beginning.
I still can't find how many square miles the search area was! I know it's been mentioned before but I can't renember and I didn't see it in that link.
Was it about 6 square miles? For some reason that's what I thought I remember but it's probably not right.

 

[anneg]

I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout.

Thank you for this description. I would be interested in seeing the route you took marked on a map. It sounds like when you went back south from the rocks and missed the main trail, you were on the pole line dirt road--is that right?

From its intersection with the main trail, the pole line road goes south a while (paralleling Kelbaker Rd) and then curves around the east side of another rock formation, although the pole line itself appears to go straight across the rocks, per the Google map. (If you zoom in on the map, you can see the poles.) The road then angles west for a short distance to meet the pole line, then south again and crosses Kelbaker. There appears to be another turnout there, which could have been very confusing to Barbara if she ended up there by mistake.

I hope this makes sense. Hoping for some news soon.

 

[MsBetsy]

It is an unmarked trail in rough wilderness literally in the middle of the Mojave Desert where they pulled off on the side of the road and decided to go for a walk to check out some rock formations up the trail aways according to RT. They were the only ones there. There were no signs or arrows or marks, just the trail. MOO

Yes, I know the circumstances, I'm just trying to imagine what navigating the trail would be like.
The way you describe it sounds like it would be easy to make a wrong turn.
I've had a hard time on trails that are clearly marked, although not in the desert. Imo

 

[LietKynes]

Yeah, it's pretty clear they don't need any help from the public.
They would have asked long ago if that were the case, especially if there was any evidence of foul play. Imo

Actually I would've thought if LE suspected foul play-- they wouldn't be asking for help from the public, as they're following up on clues from the photos or other leads.
Who knows ?
LE's silence is suspicious.
Finding Barbara or what's happened is the main objective.
MOO

 

[LAhiker]

Thank you! I only remember that by Tuesday they had nearly 20 searchers.
I guess by Saturday they had about eighty searchers so I can see why they may have missed any sign of her in the beginning.
I still can't find how many square miles the search area was! I know it's been mentioned before but I can't renember and I didn't see it in that link.
Was it about 6 square miles? For some reason that's what I thought I remember but it's probably not right.

Based on SAR's flags, @sroad estimated that the search area was several square miles, but I don't think we know for sure. It could've been more -- I think they also did some searching on the other side of Kelbaker, not sure whether @sroad was factoring that in. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Wouldn't that be great news to come back to?On another note, I don't expect LE to give out information publicly that would be evidence in the investigation. What I would love to hear from them is that there is an active investigation going on now or if it's gone cold. It's gone quiet except for what's discussed here as far as I know. Maybe I missed something, but I can't recall an update from LE since the search ended. I would just like to know if anything at all is happening.

I believe the VI has verified that LE is actively following leads in the investigation, but I'm not sure how long ago it was. I think it was shortly after the interview with Barbaras son.
Anyway, it was relevant because before that we did not have any indication that they were investigating at all, and apparently they have had many leads to flow through with.
Whether or not they are investigating a crime, however, we still don't know.
Imo

 

[LietKynes]

Thank you to those of you remaining victim friendly, or at least neutral and open minded. We don't know what happened out there, and we don't have important facts to fill in the blanks.

I've always admired WS for being Victim Friendly, professional, and a cut above . Thank you to those of you taking the high road until or *if* such time as new facts suggest we should consider anyone as a POI.

Peace and love to all, and praying Barb is found.
I guess the site will be down for a couple days? Happy trails to all until we meet again!

Amateur opinion and speculation

Ita.

Staying neutral can be a challenge; but we all at WS have done admirably in that respect.

There are so many important facts missing and most of those shouldn't have been difficult to clear up.
Simple facts.

Nothing personal, or anything damaging to someone's reputation.
What was she wearing ? Red hat, white hat, bikini, shorts, what type of boots, and on and on.

But they've been left unspoken and here we are.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yay! Thank you for getting the site back up so quickly!

 

[MsBetsy]

Actually I would've thought if LE suspected foul play-- they wouldn't be asking for help from the public, as they're following up on clues from the photos or other leads.
Who knows ?
LE's silence is suspicious.
Finding Barbara or what's happened is the main objective.
MOO

I had thought they would at least ask for information from any drivers who had passed by on that day between certain hours.
You never know who might have seen something suspicious, or even saw Barbara crossing the road. Then they would know that she had likely made it back to the RV. Imo