CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[kkdj]

Nope, no culverts there. Really, at that point, her best chance would have been to flag someone down.

True. And if I had been driving along that road in the middle of the day and saw a lone person flagging me down in that desolate desert and in the heat of the dead summer I would have stopped.

 

[kkdj]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been told along some of the highways going to the river and Las Vegas there is water buried along the way. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? If true, I would think RT and BT would be aware of this, being the desert people they are.

 

[crussell821]

SBMFF

If my wife's son, family, were accusing me of nefarious deeds, I would retain a lawyer as well.
Actually, I would of retained one whether they did/didn't accuse me.

Same. I follow enough true crime to know a lawyer is always a great idea. IMO

 

[10ofRods]

SBMFF

If my wife's son, family, were accusing me of nefarious deeds, I would retain a lawyer as well.
Actually, I would of retained one whether they did/didn't accuse me.

But wouldn't you, through the lawyer, try to find your wife somehow? Offer a reward? Make a more detailed statement? What do you think it means when the lawyer says "we are frantically trying to find Barbara"?

Even if abduction, wouldn't you put out a PR that asks people to look for clues? A reward? Contact the FBI? Make public statements if the FBI was unhelpful? Try to compel local LE to use cell tower data to see who might have been in the area in that 10 minute window where she went missing? Have the lawyer decry the lack of help in finding Barbara?

One reason some family members are "accusing" RT is that his abduction theory (based on what he did say to some of them) seems to spin around his own business dealings.

He makes that media appeal directly to the abductors. If he thinks it's random abductors, he hasn't acted in a manner consistent with that (most families would hold a press conference and demand LE get on the stick with investigating the kidnapping of their family member). It's up to RT to do this, if he really thinks she was abducted. No one else is going to do it for him. No one else can be as effective as he can.

IOW, it really is time for him to make an appeal to the public and the FBI to act on the kidnapping of his wife, more than one month ago. Either the kidnappers have contacted him or they have not. It's time he revealed a bit more about this "frantic" effort to find her. To me it's odd that he made that one early appeal to all of us to be on "high alert" in looking for her in the region (including Las Vegas) but did not follow up by trying to get local media outlets to convey that message again and again.

Seems to me that one reasonable response would be to have another theory besides the abduction theory (that she got lost, somehow, is still out there) and to add information to what is known, so that she might be found.

 

[kay74]

I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout.

This solidifies with me she took the wrong trail and got lost. She is either laying out there somewhere OR she got to the road was sick and tired from heat at her age and flagged down a car and they took her.

 

[Leney]

But wouldn't you, through the lawyer, try to find your wife somehow? Offer a reward? Make a more detailed statement? What do you think it means when the lawyer says "we are frantically trying to find Barbara"?

Even if abduction, wouldn't you put out a PR that asks people to look for clues? A reward? Contact the FBI? Make public statements if the FBI was unhelpful? Try to compel local LE to use cell tower data to see who might have been in the area in that 10 minute window where she went missing? Have the lawyer decry the lack of help in finding Barbara?

One reason some family members are "accusing" RT is that his abduction theory (based on what he did say to some of them) seems to spin around his own business dealings.

He makes that media appeal directly to the abductors. If he thinks it's random abductors, he hasn't acted in a manner consistent with that (most families would hold a press conference and demand LE get on the stick with investigating the kidnapping of their family member). It's up to RT to do this, if he really thinks she was abducted. No one else is going to do it for him. No one else can be as effective as he can.

IOW, it really is time for him to make an appeal to the public and the FBI to act on the kidnapping of his wife, more than one month ago. Either the kidnappers have contacted him or they have not. It's time he revealed a bit more about this "frantic" effort to find her. To me it's odd that he made that one early appeal to all of us to be on "high alert" in looking for her in the region (including Las Vegas) but did not follow up by trying to get local media outlets to convey that message again and again.

Seems to me that one reasonable response would be to have another theory besides the abduction theory (that she got lost, somehow, is still out there) and to add information to what is known, so that she might be found.

BBM

Not if every indication leaned to her having succumbed to the elements.
In doing so, I would be putting other lives at risk especially in the heat of the summer.
Canines become overheated as well.

ETA
That unfortunately is the sad reality.
There is one thing I would be looking at.
That is water sources she may have moved towards, as BT would of been in dire straights early.

 

[kay74]

But BT was already on the trail. She did not need to cut across the desert because she was on the trail, in sight of the RV, and only 1/4 of a mile from the a/c and cold water.

I thought she was with RT by the rocks and then just pulled ahead.

 

[LietKynes]

I think this case is deader than a doornail. But, BT's son's FB is interesting, to say the least.

bbm

I'm starting to feel likewise.
But hopefully it's not...

I think she might be deceased out there in that desert, just not where they've already searched.
There's a valid reason for that theory !

SBM

These cases are not a fair representation IMO
These cases, for the most part, relied heavily on CCTV to solve/piece together timelines.

How many CCTV cameras are in the desert ?

Actually they are very fair ... the VI has stated that LE let him know there are photos of the two of them taken that day which have been confirmed.

The Verified Insider has not seen them.
But they exist ; and I believe the VI.

Why have they not been made public ?
There is no reason not to release them as they are the last clues as to what she was wearing and how she appeared in general.

As well -- RT has not revealed if they stopped at any places that would have CC cameras and evidence that would also aid in finding Barbara.
Finding her is the main goal.

Even if a person has to raise money by selling their plane, fifth wheel RV, cars, etc.
What about press conferences asking to speak to her-- if she's been kidnapped ?
Letting the abductors know they'll be charged and face justice if harm's been done ?

 

[LietKynes]

But wouldn't you, through the lawyer, try to find your wife somehow? Offer a reward? Make a more detailed statement? What do you think it means when the lawyer says "we are frantically trying to find Barbara"?

Even if abduction, wouldn't you put out a PR that asks people to look for clues? A reward? Contact the FBI? Make public statements if the FBI was unhelpful? Try to compel local LE to use cell tower data to see who might have been in the area in that 10 minute window where she went missing? Have the lawyer decry the lack of help in finding Barbara?

One reason some family members are "accusing" RT is that his abduction theory (based on what he did say to some of them) seems to spin around his own business dealings.

He makes that media appeal directly to the abductors. If he thinks it's random abductors, he hasn't acted in a manner consistent with that (most families would hold a press conference and demand LE get on the stick with investigating the kidnapping of their family member). It's up to RT to do this, if he really thinks she was abducted. No one else is going to do it for him. No one else can be as effective as he can.

IOW, it really is time for him to make an appeal to the public and the FBI to act on the kidnapping of his wife, more than one month ago. Either the kidnappers have contacted him or they have not. It's time he revealed a bit more about this "frantic" effort to find her. To me it's odd that he made that one early appeal to all of us to be on "high alert" in looking for her in the region (including Las Vegas) but did not follow up by trying to get local media outlets to convey that message again and again.

Seems to me that one reasonable response would be to have another theory besides the abduction theory (that she got lost, somehow, is still out there) and to add information to what is known, so that she might be found.

Emph. mine

Bumping this excellent post.

Not to mention it was said that someone could "...return her, no questions asked. And that's it." (paraphrased)
As in, no questions asked and no charges will be filed.

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.
Buggers the mind.

 

[Leney]

bbm
Actually they are very fair ... the VI has stated that LE let him know there are photos of the two of them taken that day which have been confirmed.
The VI has not seen them.
But they exist.
Why have they not been made public ?
There is no reason not to release them as they are the last clues as to what she was wearing and how she appeared in general.
As well -- RT has not revealed if they stopped at any places that would have CC cameras and evidence that would also aid in finding Barbara.
Finding her is the main goal.

Even if a person has to raise money by selling their plane, fifth wheel RV, cars, etc.
What about press conferences asking to speak to her-- if she's been kidnapped ?
Letting the abductors know they'll be charged and face justice if harm's been done ?

BBM

I suspect because the family of BT have accused him of having contributed to her demise/being lost.
This would require LE to evaluate these accusations, review their social media posts in greater detail, to include FB, Twitter, et al.
I would expect nothing less of this LE agency or any other.

That alone is enough to cause any LE agency to cease communications to the public.

 

[rosesfromangels]

bbm
Even if a person has to raise money by selling their plane, fifth wheel RV, cars, etc. What about press conferences asking to speak to her-- if she's been kidnapped ? Letting the abductors know they'll be charged and face justice if harm's been done ?

Respectfully snipped for commentary response.
RT's financial situation is not transparent to us. Just because he hasn't sold visible possessions doesn't mean he hasn't liquidated assets to support any efforts to bring Barb home. We simply don't know, and I doubt selling a couple toys would be sufficient to support that effort, if there is indeed an effort like this. While this type of speculation is natural given the lack of information, it appears (on the surface, by an amateur spectator), that RT is a smart man, and would do whatever it took (based on direction from LE or Private Investigators), to secure release of his wife. (If that were possible).

All this being said, I don't think such an effort is a necessary action in this sad case. As I've posted ad nauseam, I think this neat lady is out near where she was last seen, waiting to be found and brought home to rest.

Still just amateur opinion and speculation

 

[kkdj]

Emph. mine

Bumping this excellent post.

Not to mention it was said that someone could "...return her, no questions asked. And that's it." (paraphrased)
As in, no questions asked and no charges will be filed.

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.
Buggers the mind.

I would think if she had truly been abducted it wouldn't be RT's choice to not seek prosecution if she had been returned safely. That would be a serious criminal offense that a DA would prosecute once the kidnappers were realized.

 

[LietKynes]

I would think if she had truly been abducted it wouldn't be RT's choice to not seek prosecution if she had been returned safely. That would be a serious criminal offense that a DA would prosecute once the kidnappers were realized.

You have a good point there.

But it would show that a person cared enough about their missing spouse that they'd be willing to consider legal action.
For the record, LE do not believe she was abducted. There was no evidence to support that anyone took her.

 

[happyday]

But wouldn't you, through the lawyer, try to find your wife somehow? Offer a reward? Make a more detailed statement? What do you think it means when the lawyer says "we are frantically trying to find Barbara"?

Even if abduction, wouldn't you put out a PR that asks people to look for clues? A reward? Contact the FBI? Make public statements if the FBI was unhelpful? Try to compel local LE to use cell tower data to see who might have been in the area in that 10 minute window where she went missing? Have the lawyer decry the lack of help in finding Barbara?

One reason some family members are "accusing" RT is that his abduction theory (based on what he did say to some of them) seems to spin around his own business dealings.

He makes that media appeal directly to the abductors. If he thinks it's random abductors, he hasn't acted in a manner consistent with that (most families would hold a press conference and demand LE get on the stick with investigating the kidnapping of their family member). It's up to RT to do this, if he really thinks she was abducted. No one else is going to do it for him. No one else can be as effective as he can.

IOW, it really is time for him to make an appeal to the public and the FBI to act on the kidnapping of his wife, more than one month ago. Either the kidnappers have contacted him or they have not. It's time he revealed a bit more about this "frantic" effort to find her. To me it's odd that he made that one early appeal to all of us to be on "high alert" in looking for her in the region (including Las Vegas) but did not follow up by trying to get local media outlets to convey that message again and again.

Seems to me that one reasonable response would be to have another theory besides the abduction theory (that she got lost, somehow, is still out there) and to add information to what is known, so that she might be found.

All of this has been bothering me as well.

 

[LietKynes]

Respectfully snipped for commentary response.
RT's financial situation is not transparent to us. Just because he hasn't sold visible possessions doesn't mean he hasn't liquidated assets to support any efforts to bring Barb home. We simply don't know, and I doubt selling a couple toys would be sufficient to support that effort, if there is indeed an effort like this. While this type of speculation is natural given the lack of information, it appears (on the surface, by an amateur spectator), that RT is a smart man, and would do whatever it took (based on direction from LE or Private Investigators), to secure release of his wife. (If that were possible).

All this being said, I don't think such an effort is a necessary action in this sad case. As I've posted ad nauseam, I think this neat lady is out near where she was last seen, waiting to be found and brought home to rest.

Still just amateur opinion and speculation

Emph. mine

The fifth wheel was new and purchased prior to this trip.
Since he bought it recently, it could've been sold for between 50-70 k.
Not a small amount and it could be used for a reward in finding her.
And an airplane --even a smaller one-- would also help with $$ to aid in finding her.
It might bring some significant funds for her search.
But maybe he's sold it already-- so you could be right !
If you truly love someone-- you'll do anything to find them.
Including providing photos and/or an accurate description of what they were wearing.

Does anyone know if RT's sold any possessions to help find his wife ?

In some missing person's cases, a second mortgage has been taken out to find them.

 

[kkdj]

You have a good point there.

But it would show that a person cared enough about their missing spouse that they'd be willing to consider legal action.
For the record, LE do not believe she was abducted. There was no evidence to support that anyone took her.

I'm aware of this. There is no evidence to support she was taken from the areas they searched.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

It is RT’s right to get a lawyer as we all know anything you say can and will be used against you at a later time in court. However, the mostly innocent people are usually extremely vocal and want to get word out of their innocence. RT being so quiet when his loving wife who leaves love notes on his pillow is missing, is slightly unsettling. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

I don't know how long it was.

That's another reason why I can't criticize RT for taking too long to call for help. JMO

In all accounts given by RT, he says it's about an hour. I don't think that's an unreasonable amount of time if he thought Barbara was not suffering from heat exhaustion (although...I suppose finding the RV unoccupied and the key untouched could have been enough for some people to call for help).

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have been told along some of the highways going to the river and Las Vegas there is water buried along the way. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? If true, I would think RT and BT would be aware of this, being the desert people they are.

The Mojave River flows under ground for almost its whole course (and is therefore inaccessible as a source of water for anyone). It does hit the surface in Afton Canyon (25 miles or so from where Barbara went missing). Following the course of that river (and its tiny underground tributaries) is something that geologists and hydrologists are currently studying. In other words, you'd have to be something of an expert to even know that Afton Canyon sometimes has water, and where the rest of the Mojave was (nowhere near where they were).

How would that knowledge be relevant? They had water in their RV. He had a gallon in his pack.

Anyway, even with modern construction equipment and drill rigs, not only is the water inaccessible, but it's illegal to drill for it. It would disrupt the entire ecosystem out there. It's buried quite a ways below ground (in thick layers of sandstone). Even the areas where the river runs above ground are dry most of the time (not enough water to come up). They get wet in the rainy season.

I just found out that in a couple of winters, the Mojave River flowed through Afton Canyon so much that it filled up two nearby basins/lakes, but that's really rare and only lasted a few weeks.

Also, the terminus of the river is just outside of Mojave NP (on its west side). So they were no where near it.

 

[Leney]

Emph. mine

The fifth wheel was new and purchased prior to this trip.
And an airplane --even a smaller one-- would also help with $$ to aid in finding her.
It might bring some significant funds for her search.
But maybe he's sold it already-- so you could be right !
If you truly love someone-- you'll do anything to find them.
Including providing photos and/or an accurate description of what they were wearing.

Does anyone know if RT's sold any possessions to help find his wife ?

On the surface this may appear to be easy, when in point of fact it may not be.
RT I assume is retired and would in part be dependent on his debt service ratio.
Does RT have a source of significant income ?
What types of mortgages are held on assets ?

Lending institutions have tightened their lending requirements.
I assume much of this would be costly, especially over the long term.

These are only a few points which would need to be taken into consideration.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Yes, I'm referring to those. There are small hills to the right (in the above photo) plus a few more rises next to those - and a couple more small hills just past the creek bed...

Shortened by me for emphasis on :

“Meanwhile, they gave RT a polygraph and a couple of days after the search ended, RT got a lawyer (who is, I believe, a criminal defense attorney - can someone confirm?)

”

Smart move to hire criminal defense lawyer. RT had “failed” the lie detector. I’d be freaked out that they could arrest me... Criminal defense lawyer smartest move.

Like the employee in Jennifer Dulos case. Protection before you screw up anything that LE would pounce on. MOO