CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[10ofRods]

Emph. mine
Ita.

That's what caught my attention from the beginning when we were told this.
Seemed unnecessary.

It does seem unnecessary, except that RT (at some point - maybe by the end of the first day?) decided that since she had to stand by the side of the road, in her bikini, holding a beverage container, with probably her cap and sunglasses on, looking for all the world like a lone woman in search of a beach party, that someone might have pulled over and picked her up. She'd be waiting for a break in cars to cross the road. Could have stood there a few minutes.

Someone could have decided she needed a conversation to see if she was okay. That someone could be evil. I don't know what evidence there would be if, for example, Barb (unable to get into the RV?) was asked if she wanted to sit in a car with A/C (with a total stranger). Then her cup would be with her.

As I've mentioned before, there are a fair number of crimes in the Mojave. So, in RT's mind, those were relevant details. If someone noticed a person in a car, interacting with a woman in a bikini, it's very relevant.

If she is simply out there in the desert, yes, it's relevant to know what she's wearing so that people can keep an eye out.

 

[K9Enzo]

To be fair, we have no clue what RT is doing right now to find his missing wife.

Maybe he’s putting all his faith in LE, hired a PI, has a board tacked to the wall with all the info he believes is relevant and studies it over and over, is sitting at home staring at the wall all day or carrying on as normal. We don’t know.

I don’t believe he will talk to the media anymore (wise) or give a daily, even weekly brief to all the family. IMO, behind the scenes there’s a “us vs. them” that has formed. This unfortunately happens. Emotions, understandably, run high in these awful situations. People want answers.

I also believe if LE truly felt the public could assist and be a valuable resource, we would be hearing from them right now.

 

[CSIDreamer]

To be fair, we have no clue what RT is doing right now to find his missing wife.

Maybe he’s putting all his faith in LE, hired a PI, has a board tacked to the wall with all the info he believes is relevant and studies it over and over, is sitting at home staring at the wall all day or carrying on as normal. We don’t know.

I don’t believe he will talk to the media anymore (wise) or give a daily, even weekly brief to all the family. IMO, behind the scenes there’s a “us vs. them” that has formed. This unfortunately happens. Emotions, understandably, run high in these awful situations. People want answers.

I also believe if LE truly felt the public could assist and be a valuable resource, we would be hearing from them right now.

Unfortunately, that us vs them mentality seems, in my opinion, to be coming from RT. Her son and brother were not notified in a reasonable, timely fashion at all.

 

[K9Enzo]

Unfortunately, that us vs them mentality seems, in my opinion, to be coming from RT. Her son and brother were not notified in a reasonable, timely fashion at all.

I have no idea if anyone feels slighted or should feel that way. As I don’t know the family dynamic here or a single person in it.

 

[al66pine]

Reward? Search? Is $ Avail? Selling Assets?
Would offering reward help find BT? Would it draw attention to the case, perhaps motivate someone w info to contact LE or RT? Or would it just encourage ppl to stumble around in Mojave now & get in harm's way themselves?

Would hiring ppl/an agency to search further be feasible? Potentially productive? Did she or purported abductors leave any electronic/digital trail, that could be identified? Where would searchers look? Mojave? Las Vegas? BHCIty? McLaughlin, where they lived before BHCity? Or?

Does anyone here know how much $ is avail for either of above? From RT? In addition to visible assets (house, RV, truck, plane, boat, possibly w no loans/mortgages), RT may have stock portfolio, a brokerage a/c, and other investments worth millions. Or he may have max loans against these assets, and be 3 payments in arrears and aside from that may have only pocket change. Who knows? Do we even know if those ^ assets are owned by or registered in his name alone, so he could sell, without signature of someone else? If he sold $10,000 or $100,000 of securities in his (hypothetical) brokerage a/c, we would not see it. I don't know, won't assume, and will leave it at that to avoid violating ToS.

 

[happyday]

Honestly, if my spouse were out there, I'd be carrying on for night searches, atvs, anything besides letting my spouse rot in the desert. JMO.

YES!!! I keep thinking that if this happened to my husband and he vanished just a few steps away from me and the RV, I would be in my RV in that same spot STILL today! You couldn’t make me leave or stop searching. Even if I was convinced he was abducted just the chance that he could be out there would keep me searching!

 

[MsBetsy]

Emph. mine
Ita.

That's what caught my attention from the beginning when we were told this.
Seemed unnecessary.

Well, it's necessary for LE to give an accurate description of what someone is wearing or had with them at the time so people know what to look for.

Many times when people suddenly go missing it is unknown whether it was voluntary or if foul play was involved.

Maybe Robert thought that since she was drinking a beer and in a bikini she would not have gone off on her own, so something bad must have happened.

After all, it's not uncommon when a woman disappears near a road for people to think of an abduction situation. Imo

 

[K9Enzo]

I have mixed feelings on offering reward money. I also believe RT would have been given advice from LE on it. Sometimes they advise not to do it.

Put up reward money and you could risk people’s lives who have no business searching the desert for her. Then you get those terrible calls where someone exploits the family and claims to have their missing loved one and want $$$. You might get a unrecognizable grainy pic but “what if” plagues the poor family. I have heard of people wiping out their savings account, getting second mortgages to send $$$ and it’s all a scam.

Then you have reward money that brings the right person forward with accurate information.

 

[al66pine]

BT's Personality/Temperament/Character?

Y ...no indication that Barbara Thomas is a drama queen who would endanger herself over a marital spat...

@Reasonable & Just . Thanks for your post.
Agree w you: we have no evidence re ^. She may have been a saint or close to it.
From posts & feedback by our VI dbdb11, she was well loved by her family, based on the little info posted.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I have no idea if anyone feels slighted or should feel that way. As I don’t know the family dynamic here or a single person in it.

Well we have heard from her nephew, which is a VI. And there was an interview with her son.

 

[LietKynes]

Well, it's necessary for LE to give an accurate description of what someone is wearing or had with them at the time so people know what to look for.

Many times when people suddenly go missing it is unknown whether it was voluntary or if foul play was involved.

Maybe Robert thought that since she was drinking a beer and in a bikini she would not have gone off on her own, so something bad must have happened.

After all, it's not uncommon when a woman disappears near a road for people to think of an abduction situation. Imo

BBM

Absolutely I agree we need an accurate description of what she was wearing and what type of drink container, or can or bottle.

Some like their beer from glass containers.
Was it a short necked bottle or a long one ?
If she threw it by the road during a struggle from being abducted, someone could have noticed it and discarded it by now ; because they didn't know it was important.

It was the manner in which RT gave the description, not the clothing itself.
Back in an earlier thread, it was discussed if it was a can of BudLight or a Yeti drink container.
We have Yeti's and they're pretty nice to keep a cold drink without the container 'sweating' and getting slippery in your hands.

As to the accurate description; we still do not have that.

RT showed a photo of Barbara in a red cap. Later changed to white.

We have a story about her wearing a bikini, later changed to black bra and underwear, later changed to a black swim top and shorts.
Never mind about the question of what type of boots (hiking, shorter sport boots, tall boots, etc.), and for now the description is black socks and boots.
Ankle socks ?
Tall socks ?
What if someone finds a boot -- or a pair -- and either discards them as trash or leaves them there in the Mojave, not knowing they could be significant ?

There have been repeated discussions about her appearance.
And we still do not know for certain what she was wearing or even what type of shoes and beverage she had.
RT could tell us.
Any clue would help.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

It doesn't really bother me. It strikes me as two-fold.
One, he thinks of her as an attractive woman.
Two, he has a clear mental image of his last sighting of her which is stamped on his memory.

As noted multiple times in earlier posts, there's more to it than that. RT said (exact quote):
bbm

'I Just Want My Wife Back:' Husband Denies Involvement In Wife's Disappearance During Mojave Hike
"Somebody picker her up because she was wearing a bikini, she had a beer in her hand and she was ahead of me and she had to cross that road."

Key word: "because"

RT indicated BT having had a beer in her hand was a significant factor in her having been abducted. Was he implying a person carrying a beer would make an abductor think the person is drunk and therefore an easier target? That he believes LE is looking at him as a "prime suspect" could also be a factor in his thinking but it seems an odd attempt to clear himself with LE. Why would he need to include the beer element if he "thinks of her as an attractive woman"? Isn't that, along with her walking ahead of him/alone adequate reasons for abduction? You include the beer element while describing her attire and what she might be carrying, not as significant reason for abduction.
IMO: odd.

Also IMO: that's a bit too much thinking/detailing on his part. He's attempting to really sell the abduction idea. I have yet to hear RT (in public interviews) pose the possibility she might have fallen in to a mine shaft/earth breach. He did say during his searching for BT that he went back to search a cave they had visited earlier during their hike but made no suggestion that maybe BT happened across a mine shaft(s) in the broader area. Experienced Mojave desert hikers typically are aware of mine shafts in the broader area; that's a necessity for safety/survival.

It could be an innocent element in his describing the situation, but it makes my hinky meter needle dance a bit.

 

[LietKynes]

Respectfully snipped for commentary response.
RT's financial situation is not transparent to us. Just because he hasn't sold visible possessions doesn't mean he hasn't liquidated assets to support any efforts to bring Barb home. We simply don't know, and I doubt selling a couple toys would be sufficient to support that effort, if there is indeed an effort like this. While this type of speculation is natural given the lack of information, it appears (on the surface, by an amateur spectator), that RT is a smart man, and would do whatever it took (based on direction from LE or Private Investigators), to secure release of his wife. (If that were possible).

All this being said, I don't think such an effort is a necessary action in this sad case. As I've posted ad nauseam, I think this neat lady is out near where she was last seen, waiting to be found and brought home to rest.

Still just amateur opinion and speculation

BBM

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
RT is no fool.
Far from it.
And despite his age, he is not feeble minded, nor is he frail.
His interviews may have been troubling to some observers ; but he has all of his faculties intact.

And don't worry about posting repeatedly that she could be out there somewhere in the desert.
I agree with you--- she could very well be out there.
Just not where SAR and others have been led to believe.

 

[LietKynes]

bbm


As noted multiple times in earlier posts, there's more to it than that. RT said (exact quote):
bbm

Key word: "because"

RT indicated BT having had a beer in her hand was a significant factor in her having been abducted. Was he implying a person carrying a beer would make an abductor think the person is drunk and therefore an easier target? That he believes LE is looking at him as a "prime suspect" could also be a factor in his thinking but it seems an odd attempt to clear himself with LE. Why would he need to include the beer element if he "thinks of her as an attractive woman"? Isn't that, along with her walking ahead of him/alone adequate reasons for abduction? You include the beer element while describing her attire and what she might be carrying, not as significant reason for abduction.
IMO: odd.

Also IMO: that's a bit too much thinking/detailing on his part. He's attempting to really sell the abduction idea. I have yet to hear RT (in public interviews) pose the possibility she might have fallen in to a mine shaft/earth breach. He did say during his searching for BT that he went back to search a cave they had visited earlier during their hike but made no suggestion that maybe BT happened across a mine shaft(s) in the broader area. Experienced Mojave desert hikers typically are aware of mine shafts in the broader area; that's a necessity for safety/survival.

It could be an innocent element in his describing the situation, but it makes my hinky meter needle dance a bit.

BBM

Ita.
It was noted during an earlier discussion that in order to access the caves --they had to walk a bit away from the path where the rock formations are.
In the photos kindly supplied to us by @sroad and others, there are rock formations from the path Barbara would have had to walk back to the RV; but no caves in that immediate vicinity.
Unless there was a large underground cave that's not visible on google earth ?

 

[10ofRods]

The beer is relevant to the hydration issue. No one in their right mind goes off to do more hiking in the desert (as some have suggested here: that she decided to go ahead and do some rock collecting) with just a beer.

I do believe that a container was mentioned at some point, in some MSM. It was discussed a lot on the first few threads. Whether it was a coozy or a Yeti, etc, etc. That's the kind of detail that could be helpful. What if a beer coozy matching Barb's is found by the side of Kelbaker, north of where she went missing, a few miles away? Test it for DNA! It would be proof of the abduction theory or at least help make other theories.

What if Barb, lost in the desert, started leaving breadcrumbs? Her hat first? Most people leave their boots on until they are forced to part with them, for obvious reasons. Finding her hat, even if it were windblown a mile or two or more away...would be a major clue. She didn't have a lot to use as breadcrumbs, it's hard to break a branch on those desert plants - but she could have (perhaps) thought of something else. The cap would be an obvious choice, along with the now empty container.

 

[coastal]

How much does a missing person's advocate cost? AFAIK, they operate as non-profit agencies and don't charge the family anything for their services... MOO

Your post reminded me that Carrie McGonigle, Amber Dubois' mother, created a search/rescue team after Amber was abducted and murdered. She has a (or more) SAR-trained dogs and they have helped recover some missing people. She could be a great help to Ms. Thomas' family and friends, and I believe she would be happy to share her contacts and experience. They might even search for Ms. Thomas, if her family asks. She lives in Escondido, just north of San Diego. Close enough, IMO, to ask!

Remembering Amber Dubois and Chelsea King a decade later

>>>snip

Since 2010, Amber’s mother Carrie McGonigle has honored her daughter by participating in searches for missing children and adults using search-and-rescue dogs. In 2011, Carrie and her dog located the remains of a local nursing student in Northern California. Carrie said her daughter would have said, “you go, mom!”

<<<snip

The link to her Facebook page (Team Amber Rescue) :

Team Amber Rescue

I don't have Facebook, but I was able to read the page, where I found this PDF:

Managing Social Media When A Loved One Is Missing

Managing Social Media Sites When A Loved One Is Missing.pdf

 

[PommyMommy]

Your post reminded me that Carrie McGonigle, Amber Dubois' mother, created a search/rescue team after Amber was abducted and murdered. She has a (or more) SAR-trained dogs and they have helped recover some missing people. She could be a great help to Ms. Thomas' family and friends, and I believe she would be happy to share her contacts and experience. They might even search for Ms. Thomas, if her family asks. She lives in Escondido, just north of San Diego. Close enough, IMO, to ask!

Remembering Amber Dubois and Chelsea King a decade later

>>>snip

Since 2010, Amber’s mother Carrie McGonigle has honored her daughter by participating in searches for missing children and adults using search-and-rescue dogs. In 2011, Carrie and her dog located the remains of a local nursing student in Northern California. Carrie said her daughter would have said, “you go, mom!”

<<<snip

The link to her Facebook page (Team Amber Rescue) :

Team Amber Rescue

I don't have Facebook, but I was able to read the page, where I found this PDF:

Managing Social Media When A Loved One Is Missing

Managing Social Media Sites When A Loved One Is Missing.pdf

Great thinking! And, thank you for including all the links. I'm tagging @dbdb11 to make sure he sees this. MOO

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Honestly, if my spouse were out there, I'd be carrying on for night searches, atvs, anything besides letting my spouse rot in the desert. JMO.

If I truly loved them.

 

[al66pine]

Caring about Spouse?

You have a good point there.
But it would show that a person cared enough about their missing spouse that they'd be willing to consider legal action....

@LietKynes Thx for your post. Snipped for focus. Sorry, not following ^.
Hiring an attorney = caring about missing spouse?
Something else = caring about missing spouse?

Hiring an attorney = considering what legal action? Thx in adv.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Arizona Woman, 69, Missing for 5 Days in the Mojave Desert After Going Hiking with Husband

Is it common for SAR tracking dogs (in the video at the link they appear to be tracking dogs/nose to the ground) to regularly go 'off-trail'? Such dogs require a 'las-known' location which to begin tracking.

I assume tracking dogs are trained or otherwise instructed to peruse areas surrounding a detected path. In some ways it appears the search dogs in that video were struggling to detect a scent... displayed random roving/coverage.

I do not recall LE stating search dogs tracked BT's scent to the road (or anywhere else for that matter) and that the scent trail ended at/on the asphalt road, as if BT had entered a vehicle.

I'm wondering if air-search dogs also were used; they do not require a 'last-known' location. IMO that would be a major oversight if such dogs were not used for the initial search.

I believe LE would have publicly released info if evidence/scent was found and would have issued a BOLO. That didn't happen. Instead, from LE: "no evidence of Barbara Thomas was found."

We know particular factors may render a scent untraceable or undetectable but short of rain/snow would that necessarily affect an entire scent trail of a person, from beginning to end?

Any experts here? Please chime in.

It is assumed LE might have photographic evidence of BT at the location(s) reported by RT but is that assumption based solely on the fact there was an LE/SAR search? If so then I would not assume as much since according to California law LE must initial a search for a reported missing person.

All we have at this point is no report from LE regarding a detected scent trail ("no evidence found")... I believe this is a major element to LE's silence-to-date.

Unless, of course, it is a tactical move by LE....