CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7

[LAhiker]

I don't think it matters too much the word for word verbatim between RT and the shop assistant.
it is fantastic however that this pit stop took place and there is cctv

so...we have no confirmation barb was seen at the pitstop.
not provable she was sitting in the truck but same the other way. she likely was though.

a bag of ice......
easily explained away and relevant for their picnic day trip.

LE confirming to DB there is photo evidence (that we are not privy to) of barb out there that morning.

imo she has to be at worst somewhere between the service station and the Mojave.
anyone know the distance between the two exactly?

and also any other tourist spots between the two?

apologies if I have missed a posting on these specifics.

In general, I agree with this summary. A few comments and quibbles and responses to things others have said:

There are a number of innocent explanations for what RT said to the clerk at the convenience store. While we have no reason to think the clerk misunderstood RT's comments, he could've and he might not have considered them in possible context of issues with parking the truck/RV. That said, it may ultimately turn out to be relevant that RT said that.

The surveillance footage may show whether there was anything odd about his route into the convenience store or whether he was just trying to stay out of the way of other vehicles. I do hope there also is footage from the Red Roof Inn. That might show whether BT was in the passenger seat of the truck (if not visible, presumably she was in the RV) and whether anything appeared to be off about her, about RT's interaction with her, etc.

(I do hope the Red Roof Inn had surveillance cameras that were pointed at the street and were working, and that if so, LE got the footage before it was overwritten. In my experience with a previous missing persons case, it seemed that that a good percentage of surveillance cameras aren't working at any given time....)

If, as the case detective told @dbdb11, BT was seen in the photos taken near Kelbaker Rd/Hidden Hill, then it's not clear to me why in a worst case scenario she'd be between the Needles gas station/convenience store and that Mojave location. While she would be unlikely to be between the house and the gas station, something happened to her after she was seen in those Mojave photos -- as presumably it did -- she could've been beyond Kelbaker/Hidden Hill, between there and the gas station, or, if someone abducted her from that or another Mojave location, almost anywhere.

JMO

 

[MimosaMornings]

So other than her son in Indiana, Barb has no family currently residing in the US?

Wishing for clues to find Barb. Prayers for her family so far away.

 

[anneg]

Oxford English Dictionary gives:

naggy, adj.
orig. English regional.
= nagging adj.; (English regional (northern)) ill-natured, bad-tempered.

[Snipped by me.]
I have been wondering what "naggy" meant and appreciate the definitions posted. (When I type "naggy," autocorrect is determined to change it to "baggy." ) It does sound like both RT and BT started the trip in a bad mood. MOO

 

[Kapua]

In the scenarios I'm (silently) pondering, the legality of passenger transport in a 5th wheel would definitely be the least of anyone's concerns.

JMO.

Ditto (on the silent pondering). Just wanted to make sure that the great state of CA was on the list.

 

[10ofRods]

According to the California DMV RV handbook, it is permitted to ride in a 5th wheel:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...b3f4-834c7ba30963/dl648.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=

(Page 38, I believe). I was a little surprised to see that they apparently no longer require a mode of communication between the persons in the 5th wheel and the driver.

I still think RT was referring to the difficulty of parking at the store without his wife's help, not getting in and out of the RV - getting in and out of their lot. He was probably complaining. Tons of places don't have enough room for an RV and RV owners get frustrated. Keep in mind that the 5th wheel looks to stick out about 19-22 feet behind the 19 foot long truck. Those common RV's you see on the road (the rental ones) are usually 24-25' total, so this is a big rig, probably 40'. Their 5th wheel is definitely not the smallest model.

Not at all easy to find parking.

I still think this started out as a normal day, for them. Stressful, as RV's are, IME, stressful. They were probably both stressed out. They should have gotten the ice before, right?

I am very happy to know that LE sought the surveillance video though. That means they are tracking RT's digital trail and checking his story against what they find. Narrowing down what happened, more and more.

 

[Kittybunny]

Not to change the subject since we have such great discussion and new information but the info about the gas station leads me to wonder about the kennel visit by Barb.

@dbdb11 or anyone else who can answer, Was the stop at the kennel 1) once they were underway (that is, left the house with the truck and Fifth Wheel, then they stopped) OR 2) a pre-departure trip by Barb alone in which she took the truck or another vehicle, dropped the dog off, then returned home after which they then persumably left together?

Just trying to noodle through some things or where things could have happened, if you know what I mean.

 

[TheMadScientist]

I haven't been keeping up daily like in the beginning. Just a couple of thoughts as the Chevron-ICE is a deal changer for me. I went back to about page 36 or 37, found the VI posting a picture of the station across from Red Roof Inn. Has it been verified that RT got fuel either diesel or gas? If you look at that posted picture, the price is $4.49, $4.59, $4.69...also the vehicle in that picture is a pick-up truck with a 5th wheel flatbed. I live 4 hours from "The River" and we all know that Needles fuel is $1.00 more a gallon than the price of fuel in Arizona 5 miles east of "The River" at Hwy. 95 east where "Pilot, Loves & a Chevron" is miles north of Havasu City. There is NO REASON to separate his truck from the 5th wheel trailer. Notice the approx. 45 degree angle of the pumps to Needles Hwy. They make it so easy to get in and out for patrons and tanker supply semi's to refuel the station. I was leaning towards the Hwy 95 portion to Searchlight as a place to search, but now narrowing my thoughts from Havasu City to Hwy. 40.

 

[NervousNellie]

I haven't been keeping up daily like in the beginning. Just a couple of thoughts as the Chevron-ICE is a deal changer for me. I went back to about page 36 or 37, found the VI posting a picture of the station across from Red Roof Inn. Has it been verified that RT got fuel either diesel or gas? If you look at that posted picture, the price is $4.49, $4.59, $4.69...also the vehicle in that picture is a pick-up truck with a 5th wheel flatbed. I live 4 hours from "The River" and we all know that Needles fuel is $1.00 more a gallon than the price of fuel in Arizona 5 miles east of "The River" at Hwy. 95 east where "Pilot, Loves & a Chevron" is miles north of Havasu City. There is NO REASON to separate his truck from the 5th wheel trailer. Notice the approx. 45 degree angle of the pumps to Needles Hwy. They make it so easy to get in and out for patrons and tanker supply semi's to refuel the station. I was leaning towards the Hwy 95 portion to Searchlight as a place to search, but now narrowing my thoughts from Havasu City to Hwy. 40.

He did not get gas - only ice.

ETA: He parked across the street from the Chevron.

 

[Jade]

The reason the clerk’s words are being “twisted” is that they make no sense as spoken, since RT blatantly jogged back to the truck and climbed in unassisted. But the interpretations put forth by RVers makes perfect sense. The clerk’s wording can be interpreted more than one way.

One thing we are forgetting is that @dbdb11 said that the clerk told him RT came to the store in a “roundabout way.” That may account for his explanation mentioning his wife...if he came in the wrong door and was turned around, irritated and frustrated, he could have explained his error by explaining why he parked across the road. We don’t know.

I’m no fan of RT, but when there are reasonable explanations for his actions that are logical and don’t involve something nefarious I think it’s fair to put them forth.

Yes, the unaccounted for time until the 911 call is huge.

Then that is Robert’s actions that make no sense, imo, not the clerk’s statement.

IMO, the clerk thought Roberts’s actions made no sense either.

Witness statements are accepted in all forms by LE, the Courts and elsewhere.

Looking at the picture it is a straight shot over to the door of the store.

Maybe Robert was preoccupied or stressed or nervous is why.

Lots of us with suvs park in easy places to just swing in and out too so I get that.

I don’t believe they would purchase or not modify if RT couldn’t get in and out of the truck.

IMO, it’s not reasonable to change the clerk’s words because it doesn’t fit a scenario.

He said what he said apparently in all earnestness whether it means something or not I’ve seen no reason not to take him at face value.



all imo

 

[anneg]

So other than her son in Indiana, Barb has no family currently residing in the US?

Wishing for clues to find Barb. Prayers for her family so far away.

An early post from our VI says:
"barb has two brothers, fairly estranged. have met my cousins once as a small child. i think my uncles side has divorced once lr twice and may have more cousins i dont even know about."
I'm guessing the estranged brother lives in the United States. I found this quote by searching the PDF document of our VI's posts that PommyMommy posted several weeks ago. JMO.

 

[CharlestonGal]

Thank you mods and admins for keeping Barbara in the headlines here, when not many seem to care!

I have been in contact with a media person who first wrote about her, and to me it appears with these new writers, unless news comes to them (via social media) there are no news.

They don't dig. They don't care to find out what actually happened. (jmo.)

In Barbara's case it's unfortunate another lady was lost but soon found around the same time ( I mean great for her and her family) but reading around SM and seeing comments about Barbara, the general population appear to have mixed them up.

Media will see the clicks and the comments and post updates according to interest. imo, there is no public interest her because they believe she has been found already.

There need to be POSTERS put up in both the area where she was last seen and the area she was lost. There need to be constant phone calls and contact by family members or friends asking for updates and progression, and daily sharing of posts on SM about her being missing.

I have seen NOTHING on social media (FB) except for the group, that is closed, and has turned into a joke since the admin left.

Who is actually DOING something for Barbara? It's all fine to sit here and discuss, but who has contacted media, put up posters, shared her picture, done anything that will actually help find her?

WS is doing a great job in bringing attention to her, but what can YOU do?

To be fair, there really is nothing to do. Two people walked into the desert. One came back. Authorities searched the area for 9 days. What else is there TO do?

 

[Jade]

According to the California DMV RV handbook, it is permitted to ride in a 5th wheel:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/c...b3f4-834c7ba30963/dl648.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CVID=

(Page 38, I believe). I was a little surprised to see that they apparently no longer require a mode of communication between the persons in the 5th wheel and the driver.

I still think RT was referring to the difficulty of parking at the store without his wife's help, not getting in and out of the RV - getting in and out of their lot. He was probably complaining. Tons of places don't have enough room for an RV and RV owners get frustrated. Keep in mind that the 5th wheel looks to stick out about 19-22 feet behind the 19 foot long truck. Those common RV's you see on the road (the rental ones) are usually 24-25' total, so this is a big rig, probably 40'. Their 5th wheel is definitely not the smallest model.

Not at all easy to find parking.

I still think this started out as a normal day, for them. Stressful, as RV's are, IME, stressful. They were probably both stressed out. They should have gotten the ice before, right?

I am very happy to know that LE sought the surveillance video though. That means they are tracking RT's digital trail and checking his story against what they find. Narrowing down what happened, more and more.

Did you see the picture of the station? Wide open, easy access, imo.

When crowded I'm sure lots of folks park either in the dirt adjacent area or across the street as they do all over even when you are not pulling a 5th wheel.

No need for explanation it would seem a normal thing to do, imo.

 

[Cherwell]

I believe We can't trust people and their recall ..
That clerk is on camera to assist in memory.
LE was after that camera and then asking questions of the clerk.

Yes, I think if the police are asking you about something, it's quite natural to assume the subject may have been up to no good, and that might colour your recollections.

Yes, the unaccounted for time until the 911 call is huge.

It would help if we knew more about times and places of the photos. They might have stopped earlier and taken another walk, and had lunch before going out again.

They should have gotten the ice before, right?

I don't know. Wouldn't it be something you would get as late as possible?

 

[anneg]

An early post from our VI says:
"barb has two brothers, fairly estranged. have met my cousins once as a small child. i think my uncles side has divorced once lr twice and may have more cousins i dont even know about."
I'm guessing the estranged brother lives in the United States. I found this quote by searching the PDF document of our VI's posts that PommyMommy posted several weeks ago. JMO.

Replying to my own post to add the following information that was part of a later post by our VI @dbdb11 (both posts were made on July 18):
"to clarify the brothers are estranged. barb and my father have always been on great terms. my father and his brother have not. i am unsure of barbs relationship with her other brother."

So it's possible that BT and her other brother (not DB's father in Hong Kong) are NOT estranged. I hope he and his family are aware that BT is missing.
MOO

 

[noel leon]

I am wondering why the police would check cameras on the way to missing area if the time stamped pictures Robert provided actually proved Barbara was there at 2 PM.? Maybe the reason pictures have not been released to public?Maybe they are suspect?Altered ?

 

[tabitha111]

dbdb11 wrote: Maybe worth adding as well, whenever Barb called her brother in HK the call was on speaker phone and RT was listening. The same is true for when my dad or his wife got hold of Barb. Until July 12 there was never any reason for anyone to think anything of this.

sorry, could not get quote to work for me....but wanted to say that I do not like this at all.....

 

[10ofRods]

Ditto (on the silent pondering). Just wanted to make sure that the great state of CA was on the list.

I haven't been keeping up daily like in the beginning. Just a couple of thoughts as the Chevron-ICE is a deal changer for me. I went back to about page 36 or 37, found the VI posting a picture of the station across from Red Roof Inn. Has it been verified that RT got fuel either diesel or gas? If you look at that posted picture, the price is $4.49, $4.59, $4.69...also the vehicle in that picture is a pick-up truck with a 5th wheel flatbed. I live 4 hours from "The River" and we all know that Needles fuel is $1.00 more a gallon than the price of fuel in Arizona 5 miles east of "The River" at Hwy. 95 east where "Pilot, Loves & a Chevron" is miles north of Havasu City. There is NO REASON to separate his truck from the 5th wheel trailer. Notice the approx. 45 degree angle of the pumps to Needles Hwy. They make it so easy to get in and out for patrons and tanker supply semi's to refuel the station. I was leaning towards the Hwy 95 portion to Searchlight as a place to search, but now narrowing my thoughts from Havasu City to Hwy. 40.

They weren't buying gas. RT was buying ice. Getting your rig into a gas station that already has patrons (we don't know how busy it was at 9 am, but I'm guessing fairly busy) if you aren't buying gas is a pain, IMO. I agree that there's NO way he would separate the trailer from the truck (to buy gas or otherwise!)

Since LE says it has pictures of Barb near the spot at Kelbaker where RT said she disappeared, I"m not sure why anyone would start a search in between Needles and Mojave NP. IIRC, our VI says LE told him it was around 2 pm that the photo was taken.

I'm going with "Barb was still in the truck/trailer when they arrived at Kelbaker." I wish we had certain info about the time. RT would have known that police would not show up right away. There's approximately 1.5 hours between that photo, in any case, and when RT says he last saw her.

Did you see the picture of the station? Wide open, easy access, imo.

When crowded I'm sure lots of folks park either in the dirt adjacent area or across the street as they do all over even when you are not pulling a 5th wheel.

No need for explanation it would seem a normal thing to do, imo.

Yes, but google takes its photos in the early morning, often between 5:30 and 7 am. They do this for their own reasons. This was a Friday and I'd think 9:00-ish would be more crowded than 6 am. I agree it was a completely normal thing to do and actually was making the same point.

Yes, I think if the police are asking you about something, it's quite natural to assume the subject may have been up to no good, and that might colour your recollections.

It would help if we knew more about times and places of the photos. They might have stopped earlier and taken another walk, and had lunch before going out again.

I don't know. Wouldn't it be something you would get as late as possible?

I wouldn't. I mean, I'd get it at the grocery store (cheaper) and put it in my freezer. I'd do this because getting off the highway when you don't need gas, just to get ice, is a pain, with or without an RV.

Since RT is also described as "naggy" (maybe the gas station was fairly busy and he was irritated? maybe their ice sign wasn't prominent? who knows?) and Barb was described as less cheerful than usual (by the kennel people), my point is that they both seemed stressed. It would have been less stressful had they gone to a store before the trip and loaded up on ice.

Living in a hot climate, many of us have several spare bags on hand. They didn't. Perhaps Barb was getting ready for her trip by cutting down on grocery shopping (no point in loading the fridge with stuff unless your husband is the kind who cooks that stuff for himself). Anyway, they sound stressed (a 5 day camping trip, followed by a brief respite, then a trip to Vegas to drop her at the airport, where she flies without a phone through LAX to Hong Kong...)

ITA that if the police show up (any place) and start asking for CCTV footage and interviewing workers, that does color what the interviewee is going to say (and remember).

I believe our VI said the photo was around 2 pm (but hasn't seen it himself, is getting that from LE).

 

[happyday]

Thank you mods and admins for keeping Barbara in the headlines here, when not many seem to care!

I have been in contact with a media person who first wrote about her, and to me it appears with these new writers, unless news comes to them (via social media) there are no news.

They don't dig. They don't care to find out what actually happened. (jmo.)

In Barbara's case it's unfortunate another lady was lost but soon found around the same time ( I mean great for her and her family) but reading around SM and seeing comments about Barbara, the general population appear to have mixed them up.

Media will see the clicks and the comments and post updates according to interest. imo, there is no public interest her because they believe she has been found already.

There need to be POSTERS put up in both the area where she was last seen and the area she was lost. There need to be constant phone calls and contact by family members or friends asking for updates and progression, and daily sharing of posts on SM about her being missing.

I have seen NOTHING on social media (FB) except for the group, that is closed, and has turned into a joke since the admin left.

Who is actually DOING something for Barbara? It's all fine to sit here and discuss, but who has contacted media, put up posters, shared her picture, done anything that will actually help find her?

WS is doing a great job in bringing attention to her, but what can YOU do?

I agree and keeping Barbara in the news is the NUMBER ONE thing all of here can do! We’re not going to solve this mystery because there’s too much we don’t know. Hopefully LE knows more and are still digging. But WE need to keep contacting the media (there are links in these threads) including local news, national news, online news, podcasters. Whatever you watch, read or listen to—let them know about Barbara! I try to email someone every day. I think it’s the best way we can help her. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you mods and admins for keeping Barbara in the headlines here, when not many seem to care!

I have been in contact with a media person who first wrote about her, and to me it appears with these new writers, unless news comes to them (via social media) there are no news.

They don't dig. They don't care to find out what actually happened. (jmo.)

In Barbara's case it's unfortunate another lady was lost but soon found around the same time ( I mean great for her and her family) but reading around SM and seeing comments about Barbara, the general population appear to have mixed them up.

Media will see the clicks and the comments and post updates according to interest. imo, there is no public interest her because they believe she has been found already.

There need to be POSTERS put up in both the area where she was last seen and the area she was lost. There need to be constant phone calls and contact by family members or friends asking for updates and progression, and daily sharing of posts on SM about her being missing.

I have seen NOTHING on social media (FB) except for the group, that is closed, and has turned into a joke since the admin left.

Who is actually DOING something for Barbara? It's all fine to sit here and discuss, but who has contacted media, put up posters, shared her picture, done anything that will actually help find her?

WS is doing a great job in bringing attention to her, but what can YOU do?

One WSer (Chihuahua) has put up posters in many places. I've emailed posters to many places and in a couple of cases, been told they are up. Chihuahua is a truck driver and has a whole network via which she passes out posters.

Many of us have contacted media. Some of us have contacted local groups (the drone group is an example, but I found others via Facebook and am slowly getting responses and updating locals who want to go look for Barbara with details).

At least two people have actually gone out there (as part of other recreation) and taken a look.

I am continuing to contact media. I'll think of an angle and get someone to talk about Barbara at some point, I'm convinced of it. When the weather cools off, many of the locals I've contacted will be more active out there (I'm not going to say which local groups are interested in looking, that's up to them to say).

 

[Kudzu]

I wonder if it’s possible to take a picture of a picture that would time stamp and look legitimately as if it’s just been taken? I’m not implying that this is what happened, I’m just curious if it’s possible.