CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #8

[sroad]

How long is Hidden Hills Rd.? ( a few miles, or more?) You answered one of the questions I had, re: ease of driving vehicles on it Would someone be able to fairly easily take a 5th wheel on Hidden Hills, and do you know if there are any parking areas or turn-outs on it? Thanks!

HH road runs about 25 miles until it gets to the I-40 at Fenner. There are some old mine buildings about half way, but this is not the type of road you'd find 5th wheels on, too narrow and off-road like, too easy to get stuck. It would take a lot of space and skill to turn around a 5th wheel on a dirt road like that. If someone intended to do harm, they would more likely unhook, and drive over there without a trailer. We were camped on one of the smaller turnouts on it with a truck camper (which is much more agile than a trailer), but I only checked the first mile and the rest through Google Earth.

 

[cazador]

Can you say where you learned this? Upshot is volunteers get a grid map (but don't have to promise not to sure? Can they search inside and outside the previous area?)

If volunteers don't need LE permission, I'd like to pass the word on to a couple of groups that fly drones.

Absolute
I purchased a drone and joined Swarm where I talked with the owner Jim Bowers and he told me how it all works and he put BT request for volunteers on the website.
SWARM
Also on their Facebook page.
Search and Rescue Drones
I am just learning how to fly my drone to Search using a Drone. I hoped others with far more experience would jump in and do this one for BT. I hope your friends do to. :}

On their map of volunteers there are 2 people who live in the area of where BT disappeared. I have tried to contact each but have not made contact as of yet.

To answer your question, Yes anyone can just go out there and search without Sheriff SAR approval but to get access to what the Sheriff SAR did then you are under their watch and report all finds to them.
That is the way I have learned that it all works.
Jim and others did say in some other cases many Sheriff SAR will not share anything except themselves..

 

[Cherwell]

yes of course
but there is no proof that she did and using words such as how much she drank makes it a point of assumption that she in fact did drink alcohol when there is no proof that she had any alcohol.

Sure, but theories and hypotheses involve making some assumptions. It's been confirmed that Barbara does like to drink beer, so I can't see any disrespect in going with that as one possible theory.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Sure, but theories and hypotheses involve making some assumptions. It's been confirmed that Barbara does like to drink beer, so I can't see any disrespect in going with that as one possible theory.

I agree. We are all looking at possible reasons for BT to disappear.

My earlier post about disorientation mentioned alcohol and dehydration. We can take the alcohol out of the equation and dehydration causing disorientation is still a possibility.

Dehydration is a very serious condition. Yesterday a hiker in the Malibu Hills died and others suffered from heat exhaustion when they ran out of water.

One hiker died and five others suffered heat exhaustion and dehydration among a group of 10 hikers rescued Monday in the Malibu Hills, the Los Angeles County Fire and Sheriff's Department said.

Hiker Dies, Several Others Suffer Dehydration and Heat Exhaustion in Malibu Hills

 

[Nerissa]

I don't know BT's personality

I'd like to know why RT NEVER mentioned her being tired, thirsty, stressed or acting odd or disoriented if there is some possibility that she was indeed experiencing those states...

He said he wanted her to 'stay' while he took pictures: she didn't: he says he saw her round a corner of rocks & that was the last he ever did see of her

Nothing in his narrative suggests a woman suffering from any health or mental issues

That doesn't mean she didn't become disoriented within view of the RV, being a well-versed hiker of desert environments & comfortable in her bikini with a beer in her hand notwithstanding: sure: it could have happened

But: according to RT there was NOTHING to indicate that outcome
In fact, he could only figure she was abducted because men become ravening beasts when a woman in a bikini is to be seen - OR - a serial killer/rapist was just happening by.....

Again: that doesn't mean BT didn't have a health/medical event....but: there's no reason to believe that according to RT's account & beliefs........

Fact is: we are trying to piece it together that way because his versions of events make no sense

JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I agree. We are all looking at possible reasons for BT to disappear.

My earlier post about disorientation mentioned alcohol and dehydration. We can take the alcohol out of the equation and dehydration causing disorientation is still a possibility.

Dehydration is a very serious condition. Yesterday a hiker in the Malibu Hills died and others suffered from heat exhaustion when they ran out of water.


Hiker Dies, Several Others Suffer Dehydration and Heat Exhaustion in Malibu Hills

RT said the two of them hiking or walking together to take pictures or observe rock formations had a gallon of water (in addition to 'beer' and his camera). And they were 'experienced' in desert hiking. A gallon of water for two 'experienced desert hikers' going on a 2 mile walk/hike' in 90+ degree weather, even with a beer 'in hand' would not put them in a 'serious condition' IMO. And MOO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Sure, but theories and hypotheses involve making some assumptions. It's been confirmed that Barbara does like to drink beer, so I can't see any disrespect in going with that as one possible theory.

Where has it "been confirmed that Barb does like to drink beer"? TIA

 

[Tripod]

HH road runs about 25 miles until it gets to the I-40 at Fenner. There are some old mine buildings about half way, but this is not the type of road you'd find 5th wheels on, too narrow and off-road like, too easy to get stuck. It would take a lot of space and skill to turn around a 5th wheel on a dirt road like that. If someone intended to do harm, they would more likely unhook, and drive over there without a trailer. We were camped on one of the smaller turnouts on it with a truck camper (which is much more agile than a trailer), but I only checked the first mile and the rest through Google Earth.

Thanks for that info, sroad. Makes perfect sense that unhooking a 5h wheel would have to be done, and what I would expect. IMO, I'd like to see HH Rd. included in further searches.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

DBM

 

[Lilibet]

Where has it "been confirmed that Barb does like to drink beer"? TIA

Her nephew @dbdb11 confirmed that early on and posted at least one photo of BT apparently holding a beer can (could be a soda, of course). If you look back in his earlier posts you’ll find it.

That being said, only RT has stated that she had a beer with her when she was walking, so who really knows? Either way, it’s a pretty minor detail IMO and would not likely have contributed to her getting lost or abducted (if she did).

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Her nephew @dbdb11 confirmed that early on and posted at least one photo of BT apparently holding a beer can (could be a soda, of course). If you look back in his earlier posts you’ll find it.

That being said, only RT has stated that she had a beer with her when she was walking, so who really knows? Either way, it’s a pretty minor detail IMO and would not likely have contributed to her getting lost or abducted (if she did).

There may be a photo of BT with a 'beer can' in her hand, as well as a photo of her 'in a bikini', but there's no 'confirmation' that 'she liked to drink beer' or regularly 'went hiking in a bikini' in the desert when it was super hot. Nor that that was typical for her under the circumstances. Not a 'pretty minor detail' IMO, when her husband, the only person who was with her when she disappeared, stated those (bikini and beer) as 'reasons' as to why he thought she had 'disappeared' / 'she must have been abducted' due to these factors. JMO, MOO.

 

[BeachSky]

I don't know BT's personality

I'd like to know why RT NEVER mentioned her being tired, thirsty, stressed or acting odd or disoriented if there is some possibility that she was indeed experiencing those states...

He said he wanted her to 'stay' while he took pictures: she didn't: he says he saw her round a corner of rocks & that was the last he ever did see of her

Nothing in his narrative suggests a woman suffering from any health or mental issues

That doesn't mean she didn't become disoriented within view of the RV, being a well-versed hiker of desert environments & comfortable in her bikini with a beer in her hand notwithstanding: sure: it could have happened

But: according to RT there was NOTHING to indicate that outcome
IIn fact, he could only figure she was abducted because men become ravening beasts when a woman in a bikini is to be seen - OR - a serial killer/rapist was just happening by.....

Again: that doesn't mean BT didn't have a health/medical event....but: there's no reason to believe that according to RT's account & beliefs........

Fact is: we are trying to piece it together that way because his versions of events make no sense

JMO

Wayyyy too convenient that he can say anything
cause there will never be a BT to say otherwise. JMO

Love the Prosecutor story where he has the missing wife’s husband on the stand.
Prosecutor says “ look there’s your wife walking in the door!” as he points to back of the courtroom everyone turns around, stares at the door ...except the husband.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree. We are all looking at possible reasons for ratedBT to disappear.rated

My earlier post about disorientation mentioned alcohol and dehydration. We can take the alcohol out of the equation and dehydration causing disorientation is still a possibility.

Dehydration is a very serious condition. Yesterday a hiker in the Malibu Hills died and others suffered from heat exhaustion when they ran out of water.


Hiker Dies, Several Others Suffer Dehydration and Heat Exhaustion in Malibu Hills

Dehydration and heat stroke are distinct though. You can die of heat while hydrated. Dehydration speeds up heat stroke of course.

 

[Cherwell]

I don't know BT's personality
I'd like to know why RT NEVER mentioned her being tired, thirsty, stressed or acting odd or disoriented if there is some possibility that she was indeed experiencing those states...
He said he wanted her to 'stay' while he took pictures: she didn't: he says he saw her round a corner of rocks & that was the last he ever did see of her
Nothing in his narrative suggests a woman suffering from any health or mental issues
That doesn't mean she didn't become disoriented within view of the RV, being a well-versed hiker of desert environments & comfortable in her bikini with a beer in her hand notwithstanding: sure: it could have happened
But: according to RT there was NOTHING to indicate that outcome
In fact, he could only figure she was abducted because men become ravening beasts when a woman in a bikini is to be seen - OR - a serial killer/rapist was just happening by.....
Again: that doesn't mean BT didn't have a health/medical event....but: there's no reason to believe that according to RT's account & beliefs........
Fact is: we are trying to piece it together that way because his versions of events make no sense

We only have access to a limited version of his "narrative". We don't know what else he has said directly to the police and others.

 

[Cherwell]

There may be a photo of BT with a 'beer can' in her hand, as well as a photo of her 'in a bikini', but there's no 'confirmation' that 'she liked to drink beer' or regularly 'went hiking in a bikini' in the desert when it was super hot. Nor that that was typical for her under the circumstances. Not a 'pretty minor detail' IMO, when her husband, the only person who was with her when she disappeared, stated those (bikini and beer) as 'reasons' as to why he thought she had 'disappeared' / 'she must have been abducted' due to these factors. JMO, MOO.

BIB - I'll take her nephew's word for that.
It's hardly an outrageous claim - millions of people like a beer, why would you question it?

As for the rest, neither I nor @Lilibet mentioned "hiking in a bikini", so why bring that up? Straw man argument.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

RT said the two of them hiking or walking together to take pictures or observe rock formations had a gallon of water (in addition to 'beer' and his camera). And they were 'experienced' in desert hiking. A gallon of water for two 'experienced desert hikers' going on a 2 mile walk/hike' in 90+ degree weather, even with a beer 'in hand' would not put them in a 'serious condition' IMO. And MOO.

Has it been confirmed that she drank any water?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Has it been confirmed that she drank any water?

No.

 

[MsBetsy]

Has it been confirmed that she drank any water?

No. I have always heard that it is necessary to drink plenty of water before becoming dehydrated.
At least this is what my daughter's coaches have always said.
I also know that as we become older it is easier to become dehydrated and not realize it, because older people naturally have less water in their bodies, and don't feel as thirsty as younger people do when their body needs water.
Heat exhaustion can come on pretty quickly. As I mentioned before my aunt had it but kept insisting she was fine right up until she had to be taken to the hospital. She didn't recognize the symptoms and never even felt thirsty.
So I do think being dehydrated is a possibility, especially if Barbara was drinking beer and had not had enough water. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

BIB - I'll take her nephew's word for that.
It's hardly an outrageous claim - millions of people like a beer, why would you question it?

As for the rest, neither I nor @Lilibet mentioned "hiking in a bikini", so why bring that up? Straw man argument.

Yeah, it doesn't sound strange at all.
For me it's similar to being at the beach in a bikini and drinking beer.
The only difference is there is no ocean to cool off in.
People take walks on the beach, play volley ball or frisbee but that doesn't stop anyone from having a few beers.
Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

There may be a photo of BT with a 'beer can' in her hand, as well as a photo of her 'in a bikini', but there's no 'confirmation' that 'she liked to drink beer' or regularly 'went hiking in a bikini' in the desert when it was super hot. Nor that that was typical for her under the circumstances. Not a 'pretty minor detail' IMO, when her husband, the only person who was with her when she disappeared, stated those (bikini and beer) as 'reasons' as to why he thought she had 'disappeared' / 'she must have been abducted' due to these factors. JMO, MOO.

According to the VI, this was typical for Barbara.

Robert didn't just mention what she was wearing and holding, he also said that she had to cross that road in order to get to the RV. Maybe he believed that since she was near the road a car must have picked her up.

It's hard to just go by a few sentences that we heard in an interview from almost two months ago. He knew they had searched the area completely and there was no sign of her. If he thought she had not gotten lost, I'm not sure what else he could think.
We don't know what other evidence they have found or what else Robert knows. He may no longer believe she was abducted, for all we know. Imo