CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

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  • #81
He’s never thought she was lost.
He feels somebody out there has her.
That's what he said almost two months ago.
I would really like to hear what his thoughts are now that all this time has passed. I wonder if he has spoken to LE again. I really wish he would do an interview, surely the local news would be interested?
So many have contacted news sources and still we hear nothing? It's not like there is a gag order on the case. Wouldn't we have heard about that?
What about LE? Why haven't they given the public an update? They asked for help finding her in the beginning, I wish they would least give a short update. Imo
 
  • #82
I’ve been in a very similar situation to this where I got separated from my husband in the desert. We were almost back to truck but somehow I was hopelessly lost and panicking. No cell service. Him honking the horn repeatedly saved the day and kept me from wandering the wrong direction until we found each other about 30 minutes later.
I have no idea if he waved his arms during that time but I doubt it because he didn’t know where I was. That would have been weird! Lol.
BBM Yes that sounds like something that happened to BT. My memories looking out at the desert 50 years ago from my grandparents winter place made me think I would never want to go out there. Everything looked the same. It was endless.
 
  • #83
"I just want my wife back and if somebody out there has her, which I feel somebody does, please drop her off at a safe place where she can contact us and that's it," he said.

The husband of a woman who disappeared while hiking in the California desert a week ago insisted he is innocent after failing a lie detector test


His voice inflection in the taped interview.
This part above “which I feel somebody does”
I don’t know this man. Someone mentioned Sales.
I wonder if he conducts his verbiage in this fashion in past conversations
trying to let you know he is right.

He says IF somebody out there has her.
Then he says he FEELS somebody DOES.
Those 2 things do not go together IMO

It comes across that it’s more important that we believe him than find her.
Just my take.

All MOO
“He says IF somebody out there has her.
Then he says he FEELS somebody DOES.”

The way he says these two sentences, it sounds like he knows who kidnapped her.
 
  • #84
It gives context. In fact, if the awning was deployed, that supports RT's narrative. That's why it would have been good to get a BOLO out for Barbara right away and ask locals (especially from the southern side of Mojave NP) if they saw an RV parked there. Long shot, yes.

It supports RT's narrative because most couples would feel okay about one of them taking a 5 minute walk alone to a place that had shade. Even if the key had been disturbed or required getting down to look under the truck or was otherwise a bit difficult to grab, there would be shade.

If RT thought it was only a 5 minute walk or that he'd be only 2-3 minutes behind her, there's no reason for him to take the water out and have her carry it or drink some before setting out. If the awning was out and there were folding chairs, perhaps there was a bottle of water, too? Since he did not offer her the water or insist on her taking the remainder of it, he surely thought she would be safe and comfortable at the RV. If the awning was already out, it would be much less hot than if they waited to get back and open it.

If it really wasn't open, then he used that detail to convince family that he had planned well and the fact that she didn't make it across the road (to safety) was not his fault.

There was little to no shade cast by the RV at that time of day (it was about 2 pm-ish, almost high noon by the sun). There would be maybe about 1-1.5' of shade right at the base of the vehicle, requiring a person to sit in the dirt, very close to the RV (and the RV would be reflecting heat onto the top of the person's head, IMO). To really get into shade (if she needed to), she'd have to lie down next to the RV. In her bikini. In the gravel and dirt.

The awning is, in this case, a safety and comfort thing. If he insists it was open, then he had every reason to believe that his own actions (dawdling, taking longer than 1-2 minutes putting away his gear) would not affect her much. She would have shade while she searched for the key. She would be cooling down already and could sit and rest her head if she was feeling dizzy (most desert people know to sit and put their head down if feeling dizzy).

If you don't believe RT in the first place, then it doesn't matter much, that's for sure. But at the time he included that detail (to family), it would have given family the idea that they were not acting irresponsibly in the desert, they had planned, and would come back to their RV safely. Like normal people.

If you believe him, then it's very strange indeed that she never got across the road. No sign of her travel cup. What would her reaction be to a slowing car? To smile? The abductor(s) would have to get out of the car to put her inside it. Did they simply pause and act like good Samaritans? Grab her and her cup and thrust her inside their vehicle?

Most of us would be very unhappy if a panel van or other larger vehicle stopped in the road in the desert, when we were alone (male or female). Since she would be pausing on the west side of Kelbaker, the car would either have to be going southbound or it would have had to cross lanes (very suspicious) to pull up alongside her. If, as some have claimed, Barbara knew about shady business dealings, would she not have been immediately startled? Even if she couldn't cry out, I think she would have turned and tried to run, dropping the cup.

If it was a sedan and the people acted like they were lost, then she would not flee. Most people would be very wary of a single man, especially a young one, pulling over while we were waiting by the side of a desert highway.

But he or they still would have had to get out of their car - a very frightening moment if she was trying to help them.

All of this had to take place within about 5 minutes or less (according to RT, he was practically right behind her - only a couple of minutes behind on a 5-10 minute walk). Barbara did not cry out, did not drop her cup (or if she did, these fast-thinking abductors picked it up).

It could have been just one person, but unless they pulled over from the northbound lane, the driver would have been away from Barbara and she'd have had some time to react if the lone driver got out in the middle of the road. Which is a really dumb thing for an abductor to do, given that cars go by every couple of minutes. I think that requires two people.

During all of this, RT heard nothing. He doesn't seem hearing impaired during his interviews, but it's hard to say.

Sorry for the length. Hopefully it's helpful for someone just joining (but I do think every clue is important until this case is solved).
One point is that since we don't know if the awning was deployed or not it's hard for me to conclude that deploying it at the end of the walk vs at the beginning matters at all.

Secondly if they didn't deploy the awning at all it doesn't tell me much of anything. Maybe they planned on doing it when they both got back to the RV and when RT found that BT wasn't there he was concentrating on her and not the awning. JMO
 
  • #85
BBM Yes that sounds like something that happened to BT. My memories looking out at the desert 50 years ago from my grandparents winter place made me think I would never want to go out there. Everything looked the same. It was endless.
Everything does look the same and it is SO easy to get lost in the desert! I have no problem thinking she could have gotten lost even if it looks pretty straightforward in the pictures. At first I was sure this is probably what happened, but there are so many red flags and weirdness that I’m not so sure anymore.
I just want Barbara to be found and the truth to be known, whatever that may be. I just can’t stand her just being gone. It’s so sad.
 
  • #86
Everything does look the same and it is SO easy to get lost in the desert! I have no problem thinking she could have gotten lost even if it looks pretty straightforward in the pictures. At first I was sure this is probably what happened, but there are so many red flags and weirdness that I’m not so sure anymore.
I just want Barbara to be found and the truth to be known, whatever that may be. I just can’t stand her just being gone. It’s so sad.
 
  • #87
RV's have ladders to the roof.
RT is still in shape to get up there to look out over the area for his wife.
Does not seem like he did.
 
  • #88
RV's have ladders to the roof.
RT is still in shape to get up there to look out over the area for his wife.
Does not seem like he did.
Maybe he did after awhile and by then BT was too far away to be seen.

I didn't think of doing that until you mentioned it and I've been on many RV trips with trailers and motor homes that have the ladders that you describe.

I can see RT not thinking to do that right away. JMO.
 
  • #89
Maybe he did after awhile and by then BT was too far away to be seen.

I didn't think of doing that until you mentioned it and I've been on many RV trips with trailers and motor homes that have the ladders that you describe.

I can see RT not thinking to do that right away. JMO.
would've been the FIRST thing i would have done after getting back and not finding her there, and i would be up there doing the family birdcall (yup, we have a 'unique' birdcall that my kids and dogs respond to, and works over significant distances. used very effectively in shopping malls, hiking trails, the beach, disney, frisbee golf course etc, though it does get a strange look when done loudly).

shouting, whistling, birdcalling, honking to be sure.
 
  • #90
Maybe he did after awhile and by then BT was too far away to be seen.

I didn't think of doing that until you mentioned it and I've been on many RV trips with trailers and motor homes that have the ladders that you describe.

I can see RT not thinking to do that right away. JMO.
Would have been too hot. The roof would have blistered his skin.
 
  • #91
Would have been too hot. The roof would have blistered his skin.
Perhaps. I guess he could have put some gloves on to protect his hands and put long pants on to protect his legs after thinking it may be a good idea to get up on the roof of the RV to take a look. JMO
 
  • #92
I have never given statement analysis much weight in any of the cases that I've followed here on Websleuths.
There just isn't enough scientific basis for me to accept it as a meaningful tool in finding the truthfulness or other facts when looking at what someone is saying.
In fact a well know statement analysis "expert" named Peter Hyatt is not an allowed source here on Websleuths because of that unreliability. JMO
I completely agree. People see and hear what they want to see and hear, IMO.
"He wouldn't look at the camera, so he must be lying."
"He looked straight at the camera, so he must be lying."

And so on.
 
  • #93
I completely agree. People see and hear what they want to see and hear, IMO.
"He wouldn't look at the camera, so he must be lying."
"He looked straight at the camera, so he must be lying."

And so on.
There also was not much to go on in terms of body language or specific gestures.
Words alone can be interpreted in many different ways.
No tears does not necessarily point to no emotion.
Even the experts agree that people show grief in different ways. Imo
 
  • #94
Well it might have been better for him to guess horses, rather than zebras, when he heard those hooves run by.

If he had acted as if she were lost, she might be found by now. So many things he could help with. She was an active woman, apparently, and could have walked quite a distance if it were more than 5 minutes.

If he truly was just 1-2 minutes behind her, then when he got to the truck and yelled, she should have heard him (would surely have heard the horn). To go directly to abduction (with no beer container on the road or anywhere near by) is another one of his odd thinking errors (using "she had a beer" as an explanation for her abduction is, as @1&2&3 pointed out, a thinking error since no one could have known what was in her cup). Was he himself experiencing confusion that day? If a person does experience heat-related confusion, they won't notice it at the time and may never notice their odd thinking (although seeing oneself on video might make a person cringe at what they said, once they're back to a normal state).

If he never thought she was lost, then surely he didn't search as thoroughly as he might have. If he was unaware that she was angry at him for some reason (and lord knows that can happen between marital partners), then her actions might have been mysterious to him.

He ought to have tried flagging people down to help in the search. People that I know who are out that way (including ourselves) would certainly have helped. Someone could have stayed at the RV while others covered east and west, and then north and south a bit more.

Because once it is dark, there really are issues with animal predation...and if she was still out there and truly lost and scared and dehydrated, she could have walked quite a distance before collapsing. I would assume my partner was still alive and lost as the first hypothesis. Go to abduction later, once LE is consulted.

AFAIK, no cadaver dogs went out. AFAIK, sniffer dogs were used in a standard search protocol (where the handlers take them to a place where the missing person was known to have been). RT made no mention of the dogs or of discussing how to best use them. He was asked to leave the area, in fact...he said.

BBM. Interesting. That odd thinking error persisted for several days at least.
 
  • #95
Hello again @kay74 :)
After you exited store and started looking for him, and before you saw him----
- Did he walk away from car, toward you, in your gen direction?
- Did you walk further away from the store, toward him, in his gen direction?

If neither of you walked toward ea other, then he was within your eyesight the entire time, but you did not 'notice' him initially. I'm going to leave it at that. jmo.
He was not in my eyesight ok? I looked out at the parking lot and aisles and was walking straight ahead and turned thankfully to my right and saw him by the car with his hands raised and waving them!
 
  • #96
I do not know why some people are going on and on abut RT. I don't see him being arrested. He is most likely grieving and suffering and who knows what else. I think it was a simple case of her being lost, unfortunately. That desert is scary.
 
  • #97
I guess that I'm not as prepared to do the right thing as you are during a crisis. JMO.

Being prepared for a desert emergency is supposed to be part of "experience" in the desert and hiking. I wouldn't expect someone who was just casually visiting the Mojave for the first time to know to do any or much of the right thing in an emergency. That's why I tell new visitors to California that maybe they should not go there. No services in an emergency (no one will arrive for a couple of hours) etc.

But someone who goes out there often should be discussing what to do in an emergency in the area where they're at. It's a really good idea to do this if going to any national park or preserve, they are all areas where people go missing or die from misadventure. People who don't go often, though, rarely are as prepared as those who go frequently (this was not RT and Barbara's first RV, apparently, and of course, they lived in the desert).

Hopefully, one of the big benefits of WS is that we all learn more about what to do in a missing person emergency. We were traveling this summer and my husband dropped something into a grate in a big city. It was *not* his phone, but for a second there, I thought it was and was so glad we were right next to each other.

Thank you so much for joining this thread. What an asset to have you here. RT is a little difficult to read. Than you!

Thank you! I'm going to go over the RT material with a group of student linguists, one of whom has some experience in body language analysis (that's where we usually start) and we'll look at the research on microexpressions. I'm interested in what they have to say, knowing nothing about the case, compared to what I might say. I've already shown part of the driveway interview (where he first comes walking out) to people who don't know the topic at all. They say he looks "like a new RV owner" who is "proud and happy with his rig" and "wants people to look at it." This is because he seems to cast a kind of casual warm glance at his rig and (normal) people always notice gaze direction. I would say he's just very relaxed and casual, walking past his new rig. It's pretty obvious that it looks new (kept in top condition if not) but it's true that his walk and his demeanor at that point absolutely doesn't look unhappy, anxious, tense, worried or anything. Most people would be a little nervous just about being interviewed, much less with the subject matter at hand.

Maybe he's just trying not to look toward the camera, maybe it calms him to look at the RV. He is very calm in the interview.

It's possible that RT constantly has a relaxed, calm demeanor and doesn't actually feel particularly tense or anxious. In folk language, that's called being cool; if the same person becomes a criminal, it's called "cold-blooded," an excess of cool, a lack of anxiety that underpins our feelings of caring and responsibility.

I just learned that it's okay under WS TOS to comment on any MSM appearances or utterances of non-suspects. I was feeling a bit anxious about posting about it. Most of us do feel some anxiety when we break rules - or even might break an important or meaningful rule.

In other pictures of RT, his face is very expressive. So, it's odd that even when showing the love notes, he is still fairly unexpressive. It's possible he's taking mild sedation. The interview at the Sheriff's Office is equally calm, but he doesn't appear otherwise sedated to me (I believe that's where the indoor interview is, but I don't have proof of it; I'm thinking my best bet is to contact Lisa P, the reporter and ask).

After all, he drove that RV from the Mojave back to his house, it's unlikely he was sedating himself at the time. And he had to drive to get to the polygraph. And he says he stayed up all night a couple of nights (wouldn't do that with even a bit of xanax, I'd think). So, I'm going to go with he's tired, but not sedated.
 
  • #98
BBM. Interesting. That odd thinking error persisted for several days at least.

Excellent point. It does pop up again. The "turning over rocks" statement after Barbara has been missing for about 3 days is another case of saying something odd that the listener is supposed to figure out on their own. He does make him sound like a he-man in the desert though. We have to assume these are smallish rocks (so...why is he looking under them?)
 
  • #99
I do not know why some people are going on and on abut RT. I don't see him being arrested. He is most likely grieving and suffering and who knows what else. I think it was a simple case of her being lost, unfortunately. That desert is scary.
Well it’s hard not to be suspicious when the only person on this entire thread who knows these people (our VI) is suspicious and does NOT think Barbara got lost. MOO.
 
  • #100
Well it’s hard not to be suspicious when the only person on this entire thread who knows these people (our VI) is suspicious and does NOT think Barbara got lost. MOO.
Hmmm, there is that! IMO ITA and hope someone is working on getting answers.
 
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