CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[Nikynoo]

I've worked the timeline a few different ways. Today, I will start here:

There are 7+ hours between 8:30 AM, when they left their house, and 3:36 PM, when the 911 call appeared in the call log.

It takes roughly 1 hour and 45 minutes to drive from Bullhead City, AZ to Kelbaker/Hidden Hills Rd., CA, according to Google maps. We know RT stopped for ice. I'm guesstimating 2 hours for sake of argument.

That leaves roughly 5 hours, 15 minutes, not including the time it took for LE to arrive.

Where and when they allegedly stopped and walked, took pictures, ate lunch, whatever, is unclear and unsubstantiated.

How long was the walk? We don't know. Where and when were photos taken? We don't know. So we are all guessing at how those critical 5 1/4 hours were spent.

IMHO

Carry on.

ok, no worries

 

[MsBetsy]

possibly if it forms part of the investigation.

Yes, it's part of an investigation that LE is involved in.

That does not mean it is a criminal investigation.

The status has always been, and is still, a missing persons investigation, as far as we know. Imo

 

[LietKynes]

I dont want to be picky, but wasn't it established the the hat was red and white? Red at the front and white panels on the sides?

^^^ It could have been

I was referring to a second or third missing persons' flyer for Barbara that changed the hat to 'white'.
I think it was also the flyer that changed her clothing to reflect black underwear, as opposed to the bikini description.

My thoughts are -- who talked to the reporters ; and changed the description or misled them ?

 

[Nikynoo]

^^^ It could have been

I was referring to a second or third missing persons' flyer for Barbara that changed the hat to 'white'.
I think it was also the flyer that changed her clothing to reflect black underwear, as opposed to the bikini description.

My thoughts are -- who talked to the reporters ; and changed the description or misled them ?

it was the AG office Barbara Thomas, who have the Sheriffs Office as a point of contact.
ETA link

 

[LietKynes]

it was the AG office Barbara Thomas, who have the Sheriffs Office as a point of contact.
ETA link

Thanks for the link !

So possibly just misheard the sheriff, and it was an easy mistake to make.

I feel like I'm jumping on clues that aren't important.
Does it matter what exact color of hat or if it was a black bikini or underwear ?

I've brought up that no one seems to know what she was carrying and what type of shoes. Maybe that's immaterial.

The timeline is important but has unexplained gaps.
Wish LE would release any footage of them where they stopped for lunch or wherever. If they have any.

 

[LAhiker]

this is from the VIs post - the text from his sister that mentions the hill and the 360 photo
"she took a 360 picture that morning from on top of a hill and the photo included a parking lot with some vehicles in it "
I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but this makes me think that they stopped somewhere between the gas station and HH.

BTW I also think the sister misheard or mis-remembered the time, noon, when RT said two. Which would also tie in with the VI's deleted post that the last photo of Barbara was taken around 2.

It's not clear to me why the VI would've deleted that post if he thought the info in it was accurate, unless there was something else in it he wanted to delete. Maybe he can clarify this at some point.

I think there are still two possible timelines, an earlier one (closer to what @dbdb11s sister's remembered RT as saying) and a later one (closer to what he's said to the press). One question in relation to how much extra time there was is whether the 360 photo that RT said BT took from a hill (whose existence I don't think LE ever specifically confirmed to our VI) was taken on the walk near Kelbaker/Hidden Hill (as @10ofRods has argued is likely) or whether it was taken on an earlier walk before they got to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. JMO

 

[Nikynoo]

Thanks for the link !

So possibly just misheard the sheriff, and it was an easy mistake to make.

I feel like I'm jumping on clues that aren't important.
Does it matter what exact color of hat or if it was a black bikini or underwear ?

I've brought up that no one seems to know what she was carrying and what type of shoes. Maybe that's immaterial.

The timeline is important but has unexplained gaps.
Wish LE would release any footage of them where they stopped for lunch or wherever. If they have any.

I agree, immaterial whether underwear or bikini. I think the colour of the hat less so, more likely to fall off and perhaps being red and white more easily seen? Wearing boots, again immaterial as less likely to come off if Barbara fell.
IMO they 'camped' out for lunch, utilizing the facilities of the RV .

 

[Nikynoo]

It's not clear to me why the VI would've deleted that post if he thought the info in it was accurate, unless there was something else in it he wanted to delete. Maybe he can clarify this at some point.

I think there are still two possible timelines, an earlier one (closer to what @dbdb11s sister's remembered RT as saying) and a later one (closer to what he's said to the press). One question in relation to how much extra time there was is whether the 360 photo that RT said BT took from a hill (whose existence I don't think LE ever specifically confirmed to our VI) was taken on the walk near Kelbaker/Hidden Hill (as @10ofRods has argued is likely) or whether it was taken on an earlier walk before they got to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. JMO

I am thinking the same.
IMO, the 360 photo was taken in the am by Barbara. The photo mentioned by the VI, I seem to recall, featured Barbara and was taken at 2pm, (or perhaps I'm remembering someone else saying this?) I wish the VI hadn't deleted that post!

 

[MsBetsy]

YEs, I agree.

And that is my original point. Why won't they release the 911 call to Barb's nephew, when he formally submitted a FOIA request?

If it was being considered a missing hiker, who got disoriented and lost in the desert, why not release the call?

Not releasing it, makes me think they are considering this as a possible criminal case. JMO

I'm sure they have been considering a criminal element to the case. It's too early to rule that out, imo.
They are obligated to follow through with all leads.
The only leads we can speculate on are those tips which the family has provided.

The frustrating part is that we don't know if the status has changed to a criminal investigation because they have not said and we haven't seen any evidence yet.

We have yet to see a single warrant, which is usually easy to find as it is public information.

We have a good idea of what the family suspects, as there have been many general statements and scenarios in regard to RT being involved.

We know that it involves the company he worked for, and that a criminal organization and kidnapping and drugs may be involved. We know that the family fears for their lives if they were to get involved. Some have suggested witness protection may be a factor. But we are not allowed to speculate on this theory unless it is reported in MSM.

So I guess the question is, what clues can we look for that LE is investigating this angle? Barbara's son seems to be determined that RT is involved and it is connected to his past involvement in nefarious activities. LE has to investigate.
So what have they found?
We just don't know. Imo

 

[Jo in Calif]

I am thinking the same.
IMO, the 360 photo was taken in the am by Barbara. The photo mentioned by the VI, I seem to recall, featured Barbara and was taken at 2pm, (or perhaps I'm remembering someone else saying this?) I wish the VI hadn't deleted that post!

Unless I missed that our VI said pic was at 2:00 I don’t think it was him that said the time.
There is a closed FB page where someone else said 2:00 and that post was deleted, along with everything else he said. I think someone posted it was our VI, on WS and I don’t think it was.

 

[MsBetsy]

^^^ It could have been

I was referring to a second or third missing persons' flyer for Barbara that changed the hat to 'white'.
I think it was also the flyer that changed her clothing to reflect black underwear, as opposed to the bikini description.

My thoughts are -- who talked to the reporters ; and changed the description or misled them ?

And what about the mystery of the sunglasses?
Didn't Barbara's son consider that significant since they left that out? I'm not sure why, though. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Unless I missed that our VI said pic was at 2:00 I don’t think it was him that said the time.
There is a closed FB page where someone else said 2:00 and that post was deleted, along with everything else he said. I think someone posted it was our VI, on WS and I don’t think it was.

It must have been, because I thought I saw the same post here by the VI stating the picture was taken at 2:00 pm.
I have never seen the FB pages, unless they were posted here. Imo

 

[Kapua]

It's not clear to me why the VI would've deleted that post if he thought the info in it was accurate, unless there was something else in it he wanted to delete. Maybe he can clarify this at some point.

I think there are still two possible timelines, an earlier one (closer to what @dbdb11s sister's remembered RT as saying) and a later one (closer to what he's said to the press). One question in relation to how much extra time there was is whether the 360 photo that RT said BT took from a hill (whose existence I don't think LE ever specifically confirmed to our VI) was taken on the walk near Kelbaker/Hidden Hill (as @10ofRods has argued is likely) or whether it was taken on an earlier walk before they got to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. JMO

I think there are more than two possible timelines, because the actual time of the photos, if there actually are legitimate photos, could be even earlier than 12.
MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

I think there are more than two possible timelines, because the actual time of the photos, if there actually are legitimate photos, could be even earlier than 12.
MOO

I agree, the photos (or lack thereof) would impact timelines.

 

[Cherwell]

And if they stopped for lunch, Barbara should've been seen on camera.
At the very least the dog kennel should have security cams.
Where is the footage from the dog being dropped off ?
When Sandra Cantu went missing, the news media played the last sighting of her, out in the street -- walking by a neighbor's home.
The clip was shown over and over.

But it's a very different situation when someone goes missing from a populated area. There could potentially be countless opportunities for witnesses to spot them, so there is a point to releasing videos. This isn't the case when someone disappears in a desert or similar remote place.

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM
Excellent comment, @wary !

And if they stopped for lunch, Barbara should've been seen on camera.
At the very least the dog kennel should have security cams.
Where is the footage from the dog being dropped off ?

When Sandra Cantu went missing, the news media played the last sighting of her, out in the street -- walking by a neighbor's home.
The clip was shown over and over.

We don't even know if the photo of Barbara in the bikini top and red hat (later changed to white) was taken that day.

Right, but the dog kennel was not the last place she was seen, and it is about two hours from the area where she went missing in the desert.
So it may not help much in terms of the investigation. Imo

 

[LietKynes]

But it's a very different situation when someone goes missing from a populated area. There could potentially be countless opportunities for witnesses to spot them, so there is a point to releasing videos. This isn't the case when someone disappears in a desert or similar remote place.

Emph mine

Agreed about possible witnesses who may have driven by them or noticed the pair out walking.
Wish they'd come forward.
Even if they only saw RT. At least potential witnesses could place him at a certain area and at which time.

Afaik, @sroad was at that location taking photos, and said that cars were driving by every few minutes.
So maybe not as remote as we were told ?

And I do think any video evidence would be helpful at this time.
That's just my opinion --- am grasping at straws.
It's been 2 months and nothing.

Just hoping more clues will be revealed by LE or anyone working at places who would have possibly captured them -- or just RT -- on security cameras.

It's like she vanished.
Except I don't think she became lost-- so where else does that leave us ?

 

[LietKynes]

Right, but the dog kennel was not the last place she was seen, and it is about two hours from the area where she went missing in the desert.
So it may not help much in terms of the investigation. Imo

BBM

Oh, ok. I must have missed that.

Thinking that I've caught up here in Barbara's thread... but maybe not ?
Where else was she seen ?
I was thinking it's not the gas station, as RT just stated that she was in the truck and he couldn't move or manage without her help-- but the attendant saw him jog or sprint back to the truck and (the employee) thought it was odd.

The dog kennel footage was important, imo , as it would show what she was wearing that day.

 

[10ofRods]

about 2 hours I think @10ofRods would know

It was about 5:30 (and I believe it's in the NIXLE report on PommyMommy's media thread). They also tweeted about it (SBSCO did).

So 3 hours total that she was missing before the search started if we count RT's one hour of searching. Given that people are not always good at estimating time, and RT has made no mention of checking his watch, I'm guessing that it's "roughly an hour" that he looked.

 

[10ofRods]

BBM

Oh, ok. I must have missed that.

Thinking that I've caught up here in Barbara's thread... but maybe not ?
Where else was she seen ?
I was thinking it's not the gas station, as RT just stated that she was in the truck and he couldn't move or manage without her help-- but the attendant saw him jog or sprint back to the truck and (the employee) thought it was odd.

The dog kennel footage was important, imo , as it would show what she was wearing that day.

I couldn't remember at first, either. But there's the neighbor's surveillance video, taken after the run to the dog kennel, apparently showing the two of them getting into their truck and leaving around 8:15.

It was a Friday morning in July, probably lots of RV's out on I-40 that morning, good chance traffic was a bit slower than usual. But unless they stopped somewhere besides for ice, it sure seems that 11 am to 11:15 am would be a late arrival date.

What then? That's the big mystery.