CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[Cubby]

Thank you, believe09. What I was thinking, more specifically, is if Bob had spent some time with Georgia after the rest of the family left and before the funeral home or coroner picked her up to prepare her for 'burial'. Bob was all over that house, even if Georgia was unable in her final months.

Considering the above, if a cadaver dog hit in Bob's home, what would differentiate a hit being applicable to Bob's case as opposed to someone saying something like, 'Of course the dog hit, Georgia passed away in that home just over a year previous to Bob's disappearance'?

IOW, I imagine there is some kind of difference between a cadaver dog which specifically detects human decomp and a dog which could track something specific to Bob's case by way of drains, pipes, etc.

I agree it would be great if Oriah could shake the grapevine and get the proper type of dog to go through Bob's home. An excellent idea and avenue to pursue.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, she died not long before Bob, didn't she? Another thought that occurred to me - when I worked with people with dementia/ alzheimer's, if someone died we would always wash them and make sure they were presented nicely. If that was done in this case, that would mean scent that wasn't Bob's down the drains as well.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, no. I've just thought of two other things too. Is a bedroom community a term for a retirement one? If so, did the previous occupants 6 years before move or pass?

And any other search might have to depend on LE co-operation. It would be such a waste of resources to bring in SAR, only to find LE had removed all the drain traps in last year's search.

 

[Cubby]

I don't know if Georgia would have been washed (after death) in the home or at a funeral home, zwiebel. She was cremated and her ashes scattered at sea. With cremation, I'm not even sure washing after death is necessary if there is not going to be a viewing.

 

[Cubby]

I had to look it up, but a bedroom community also refers to a community of commuters. Residents who commute a significant distance to work. It does not refer to a 55+ or retirement community.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-bedroom-community.htm

 

[zwiebel]

I'm such a rubbish sleuther. Why didn't it occur to me to look it up? Thanks!

 

[Cubby]

I'm such a rubbish sleuther. Why didn't it occur to me to look it up? Thanks!

Ah, no worries! I am like a preschooler with the questions, lol. I always say the only dumb questions are the ones never asked. ;p

 

[GrainneDhu]

I'm sure no one dragged Georgia's body through the house, what an awful thought..... I didn't mean to imply anyone dragged her remains through the house and I'm sorry if it came across that way. :blushing:

I was thinking along the lines of it not being uncommon to hold the hand of someone as they pass or hug and kiss them goodbye after they have passed but before the coroner has picked them up from the home. If that occured with anyone in the home at the time of Georgia's passing, how would that affect the scent of human decomp within the home?

I'm still unclear on the definition of HR scent and still unclear on how a scent dog could differentiate between human decomp between different people. The dog handler in Bianca Jones case testified it could not be done and the dogs could only detect human decomp. Not whose decomp, age, gender etc. Hope that makes sense. I'm just trying to cover all bases here with understanding how the SAR dogs work.

Oh, no, no, I didn't think you were thinking that someone had moved Georgia's remains all over the house. I was thinking ahead to a possible court case in which counsel for the defence paints a picture of a distraught Bob carrying Georgia's remains all over the house (two bad knees and general decline in strength due to old age notwithstanding) and "that, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is how the scent may have been deposited all over the home. My client had nothing to do with those results."

I am probably way behind the times and Oriah is definitely up to date and is working dogs currently.

My understanding is that it takes 2-4 hours for a cadaver to develop decomposition scent. If Georgia's remains were removed from the home before decomposition scent developed, then no decomp scent to be concerned about.

As I understand it (and I may well be wrong) deposition of decomposition scent from the hands of someone who touched human remains is minimal.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes, she died not long before Bob, didn't she? Another thought that occurred to me - when I worked with people with dementia/ alzheimer's, if someone died we would always wash them and make sure they were presented nicely. If that was done in this case, that would mean scent that wasn't Bob's down the drains as well.

You're English, as my beloved mama was.

The English are more sensible about such things than many (most?) USAns are. In the US, the normal thing to do when someone dies at home is to call 911 or the family doctor or the funeral home. The body ends up at the funeral home and it is the job of the funeral home to do whatever preparation is required.

For an interesting take on it from a very interesting author read The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford.

 

[zwiebel]

You're English, as my beloved mama was.

The English are more sensible about such things than many (most?) USAns are. In the US, the normal thing to do when someone dies at home is to call 911 or the family doctor or the funeral home. The body ends up at the funeral home and it is the job of the funeral home to do whatever preparation is required.

For an interesting take on it from a very interesting author read The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford.

The Mitford sisters! I knew there had to be another family out there with worse dynamics than sending attorney's letters to each other. Let's see - Unity stalking Hitler across Germany and shooting herself in the head; Nancy secretly writing to Churchill saying Diane was a security risk and should be jailed; very odd relationship with their father....and more.

I read that book a long time ago GrainneDhu and a little bit's coming back to me. Like cloudajo, I am full of facts. Sadly, most unlike cloudajo, I cannot remember or find them when I need them!

 

[Angelo]

Yes, she died not long before Bob, didn't she? Another thought that occurred to me - when I worked with people with dementia/ alzheimer's, if someone died we would always wash them and make sure they were presented nicely. If that was done in this case, that would mean scent that wasn't Bob's down the drains as well.

Daughter JuM posted that after her mother's death they bathed her, and straightened her linens.

 

[zwiebel]

Daughter JuM posted that after her mother's death they bathed her, and straightened her linens.

Thank you Angelo. You and cloudajo are very, very, good.

 

[zwiebel]

So it may be that even if a dog could pick up two scents, and differentiate, in court it would be very difficult to prove. You would need additional evidence such as DNA or bone or blood to prove something happened to Bob, with the scent of entirely legitimate HR already in the house. Sigh.

 

[zwiebel]

Statements/comments from LE seem to be few and far between in this case, but I'm trying to put a list of all of them we have together, without the padding of the surrounding story they usually come with in MSM. I want to do it because I'm convinced there is something very different from the norm in the way Bob's case has been handled and I would like to try and pinpoint what it is.
If anyone can direct me to relevant links/posts, I'd be very grateful.
I'm not trying to compile a criticism by the way, just a list of exactly what's been said - and maybe that will shed light on what has NOT been said. Am I making any sense here?

 

[believe09]

You're English, as my beloved mama was.

The English are more sensible about such things than many (most?) USAns are. In the US, the normal thing to do when someone dies at home is to call 911 or the family doctor or the funeral home. The body ends up at the funeral home and it is the job of the funeral home to do whatever preparation is required.

For an interesting take on it from a very interesting author read The American Way of Death by Jessica Mitford.

O/T I went to a class she taught as a guest professor once. It was amazing, and eye opening.

 

[believe09]

Daughter JuM posted that after her mother's death they bathed her, and straightened her linens.

I dont believe that for a hot minute. I have nothing to base this on except for instinct and opinion, I hasten to say.

If it is true, I find it very very curious.

 

[zwiebel]

O/T I went to a class she taught as a guest professor once. It was amazing, and eye opening.

believe09, I am in awe! If you ever want to blog about it, you'll have at least one avid reader.

 

[believe09]

Oh I am not a writer, zwiebel-I doubt I would hold your interest for long!!

 

[zwiebel]

Oh I am not a writer, zwiebel-I doubt I would hold your interest for long!!

Ha! You captured my attention when you read me like a book after I'd made three posts!
Going back to the bathing though, what's curious? I'm not doing the English irony thing here, I really don't know......think there might be one of those transatlantic cultural gaps. Is it really unusual in the US to wash someone when they die, and comb their hair and maybe change their clothes?

Obviously, I only mean if they have died an expected, natural death.

 

[shana]

snip & bolding, mine

Going back to the bathing though, what's curious? I'm not doing the English irony thing here, I really don't know......think there might be one of those transatlantic cultural gaps. Is it really unusual in the US to wash someone when they die, and comb their hair and maybe change their clothes?

Obviously, I only mean if they have died an expected, natural death.

NO.

~jmo~