CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

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  • #921
Along with that dialogue, more questions would have come up, "did you look for him?" "Did you canvas the neighborhood??" "Why didn't you CALL me?" "Did you call the freaking police?"

Then there would have been some major cuss words. LMAO
 
  • #922
Oh zwiebel, that was terrific. If only it had happened that way. In that case, we might not be having this discussion, but here we are. We are all still trying to bring Bob home. Well, I'm just reading here and praying, as my search skills are pretty-much nil. I sure do admire all of you folks who are doing the "real" work here.
 
  • #923
PB says she called and talked to Bob, the favorable reply call. JeM is said to have left, then he returns a short time later to find CL on the porch. At most a 45 minute trip, right and possibly 30 minutes. Using JuM's best guess from the following day, after she surely had compared notes with her husband, Bob's disappearance falls within the 12PM mark. That is unless he disappeared with the CL and JeM inside of the house.

OK, if you are one to completely discount the favorable reply phone call, the bracket of time seems to be a non family call around 10AM that was answered by Bob...actually answered by him. So we are looking at a 2-3 hour window. The Disappeared teaser showed JeM arriving in the Ridgeline carrying a store bag. He finds CL on the steps. JeM needed time to make that purchase, right? So the timeline is even shorter.

If we knew what store he stopped at prior to arriving at Carnation and finding the CL, I wonder if we would be any closer to finding Bob? Because, if you believe JeM has something to do with this disappearance he had a really busy couple of hours there.
 
  • #924
I was telling hubby about this case, and he asked me if anyone in the family had a boat. I told him there was no water around to dump the body in that day. He suggested that the body wasn't dumped that day.

What he is thinking is that someone could have taken Bob from the house, killed him and put him in a boat and covered him up. Then maybe the next day or day after, taken the boat to the ocean, taken it out and dumped him at sea.

I don't know enough about this case to know if that's even plausible but I thought I'd throw that idea out there.

I had also thought that maybe Bob was killed that day, the body hidden temporarily close by, then on a subequent day, whoever murdered him went back and got the body and was then able to bury it when their whereabouts and timeline for an alibi weren't going to be scrutinized. Just more thoughts..........
 
  • #925
Oh zwiebel, that was terrific. If only it had happened that way. In that case, we might not be having this discussion, but here we are. We are all still trying to bring Bob home. Well, I'm just reading here and praying, as my search skills are pretty-much nil. I sure do admire all of you folks who are doing the "real" work here.


Opie, you don't need skills, just being here is enough! The more people looking out for Bob, the better.
 
  • #926
I was telling hubby about this case, and he asked me if anyone in the family had a boat. I told him there was no water around to dump the body in that day. He suggested that the body wasn't dumped that day.

What he is thinking is that someone could have taken Bob from the house, killed him and put him in a boat and covered him up. Then maybe the next day or day after, taken the boat to the ocean, taken it out and dumped him at sea.

I don't know enough about this case to know if that's even plausible but I thought I'd throw that idea out there.

I had also thought that maybe Bob was killed that day, the body hidden temporarily close by, then on a subequent day, whoever murdered him went back and got the body and was then able to bury it when their whereabouts and timeline for an alibi weren't going to be scrutinized. Just more thoughts..........

Yes, in normal cases. But a family member suggested early on Bob may have been dumped in a lake, so I'm allergic to that theory now!
 
  • #927
PB says she called and talked to Bob, the favorable reply call. JeM is said to have left, then he returns a short time later to find CL on the porch. At most a 45 minute trip, right and possibly 30 minutes. Using JuM's best guess from the following day, after she surely had compared notes with her husband, Bob's disappearance falls within the 12PM mark. That is unless he disappeared with the CL and JeM inside of the house.

OK, if you are one to completely discount the favorable reply phone call, the bracket of time seems to be a non family call around 10AM that was answered by Bob...actually answered by him. So we are looking at a 2-3 hour window. The Disappeared teaser showed JeM arriving in the Ridgeline carrying a store bag. He finds CL on the steps. JeM needed time to make that purchase, right? So the timeline is even shorter.

If we knew what store he stopped at prior to arriving at Carnation and finding the CL, I wonder if we would be any closer to finding Bob? Because, if you believe JeM has something to do with this disappearance he had a really busy couple of hours there.

He stopped at a Cv store/pharmacy? I mapped them in the last thread, I think. They are mostly strung along a line leading to a place called San Bernardino, in the mountains.
 
  • #928
Family members live in the area of San Bernardino, including SIL, officially the last person to see Bob that day.
 
  • #929
OK-I bet PPD would be grateful if you would employ it on their behalf. ;)

All they have to do is arrange for the suspect(s) to be locked into a room with me. I'll take care of the rest.

There is actually some social science behind the Stare of Doom. Human beings generally are very nervous about silence in a conversation. If the Stare of Doom is used long enough, the human on the receiving end will start babbling just to fill the silence. And since most people cannot ad lib effective babble, they are left with babbling out the truth.

To their inner horror, I say as a victim of the Stare of Doom in my childhood.

So how it works is you chit chat with the target, seem warm and gullible, keep the talk to subjects where the target has no reason to lie. Then when the target is starting to show signs of relief (they're thinking "oh good, THAT SUBJECT isn't going to come up"), you steer the target around to the subject of interest and at the very first inkling of a lie (say, their lips are moving), employ the Stare of Doom.

Tangential thought: most humans can't come up with an ad lib rant either. They end up relying on a few cuss words and lots of repetition, which is not impressive. In order to get the sort of rant a good drill instructor in the Army produces, they actually have to be practised ahead of time. The poor trainees at whom such rants are directed are subconsciously impressed with the sort of brainpower it would take to ad lib such a rant.

Attitude and being prepared. Works for drill instructors and mothers everywhere.
 
  • #930
I love the 'stare of doom', can I borrow it, for an indefinite period?

Of course! You are married, there are surely times when it is required even with the most obliging of spouses.
 
  • #931
PB says she called and talked to Bob, the favorable reply call. JeM is said to have left, then he returns a short time later to find CL on the porch. At most a 45 minute trip, right and possibly 30 minutes. Using JuM's best guess from the following day, after she surely had compared notes with her husband, Bob's disappearance falls within the 12PM mark. That is unless he disappeared with the CL and JeM inside of the house.

OK, if you are one to completely discount the favorable reply phone call, the bracket of time seems to be a non family call around 10AM that was answered by Bob...actually answered by him. So we are looking at a 2-3 hour window. The Disappeared teaser showed JeM arriving in the Ridgeline carrying a store bag. He finds CL on the steps. JeM needed time to make that purchase, right? So the timeline is even shorter.

If we knew what store he stopped at prior to arriving at Carnation and finding the CL, I wonder if we would be any closer to finding Bob? Because, if you believe JeM has something to do with this disappearance he had a really busy couple of hours there.

Unless JeM had bought something before he arrived at Bob's house the first time that day. Something he knew he would need but would seem odd or suspicious to Bob if carried into the house at that time.

Like... cleaning supplies?
 
  • #932
All they have to do is arrange for the suspect(s) to be locked into a room with me. I'll take care of the rest.

There is actually some social science behind the Stare of Doom. Human beings generally are very nervous about silence in a conversation. If the Stare of Doom is used long enough, the human on the receiving end will start babbling just to fill the silence. And since most people cannot ad lib effective babble, they are left with babbling out the truth.

To their inner horror, I say as a victim of the Stare of Doom in my childhood.

So how it works is you chit chat with the target, seem warm and gullible, keep the talk to subjects where the target has no reason to lie. Then when the target is starting to show signs of relief (they're thinking "oh good, THAT SUBJECT isn't going to come up"), you steer the target around to the subject of interest and at the very first inkling of a lie (say, their lips are moving), employ the Stare of Doom.

Tangential thought: most humans can't come up with an ad lib rant either. They end up relying on a few cuss words and lots of repetition, which is not impressive. In order to get the sort of rant a good drill instructor in the Army produces, they actually have to be practised ahead of time. The poor trainees at whom such rants are directed are subconsciously impressed with the sort of brainpower it would take to ad lib such a rant.

Attitude and being prepared. Works for drill instructors and mothers everywhere.

Grainne, I read a book recently and though I'm too tired to go to the study and get it now, it exactly echoes what you say. A doc who has made a lifetime study of murderers and psychopaths in jail. I will try and find it later.
 
  • #933
Cubby, is it possible to put a link to the SAR thread in a signature or something here? I think people are missing it.



It's down in a members only area. Instead of adding the link to a siggy line, I added a tag with the post # with the link.

hth
 
  • #934
Sorry Grainne, I was tired yesterday. I had spent all day trying to solve a mathematical problem without doing any math, because I hate it. I was confusing two books there. The one I found the 'ever narrowing circle' approach in was 'The Jigsaw Man', by Paul Britton. He's a criminal psychologist most famous for the awful Rachel Nickell case in England -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ears-partner-son-rebuilt-shattered-lives.html

- although sadly, that case proved to be his undoing over an entrapment. In his other cases he was very good though, and if I remember correctly he kind of said that it's not just law-abiding citizens who are horrified by murders; often the killer cannot face what they've done either, or has to come up with a twisted justification for it. *So he'd start out talking to them about their childhood, maybe - a long way away from the actual crime- and slowly draw in towards the murder and what happened.

Some of his criminal profiles for the police proved amazingly accurate. I'd love to hear him interviewed on Tricia's radio. I'd love him to contribute here, in fact, because he is also very good at indicating areas where suspects are likely to live, and where they may have disposed of a victim.
 
  • #935
PB says she called and talked to Bob, the favorable reply call. JeM is said to have left, then he returns a short time later to find CL on the porch. At most a 45 minute trip, right and possibly 30 minutes. Using JuM's best guess from the following day, after she surely had compared notes with her husband, Bob's disappearance falls within the 12PM mark. That is unless he disappeared with the CL and JeM inside of the house.

OK, if you are one to completely discount the favorable reply phone call, the bracket of time seems to be a non family call around 10AM that was answered by Bob...actually answered by him. So we are looking at a 2-3 hour window. The Disappeared teaser showed JeM arriving in the Ridgeline carrying a store bag. He finds CL on the steps. JeM needed time to make that purchase, right? So the timeline is even shorter.

If we knew what store he stopped at prior to arriving at Carnation and finding the CL, I wonder if we would be any closer to finding Bob? Because, if you believe JeM has something to do with this disappearance he had a really busy couple of hours there.

I can't recall which article it was in now, but there are quotes from Detective Loomis about the CL's alibi checking out, and JeM being where he said he was.
That indicates to me that he told LE about both the store visits and which ones he visited, so they were able to go there and confirm that.

Just guessing, but I suspect LE has a good few maps of their own that would really interest us.

Something I forgot about completely but the Brittney Woods case reminded me; do you think all people connected to this case allowed LE access to their cell phone records? Or could LE just pull them without permission? Phone pings would almost certainly help with sorting out who was where, and when. It also might help to see who was calling who, and when. I suppose it's too much to hope for.

One other thing; as JeM seems to have been a bit of a slow worker, and the repairs had been left to the last minute, does anyone think it's possible he may have brought someone along to help? And maybe dropped them off during his morning store trip? That's where a cell phone ping or two might really come in useful. If he did have someone helping him initially, I wouldn't wonder at them keeping quiet, or JeM protecting them, with all the attention that has been generated since.

I am really not sure if anyone could be insane enough to do that though, because how suspicious would that look if LE found out? Unless they are relying on JeM to back them up and explain their innocence, should disclosure become unavoidable.

IMO it's unlikely, I think, but not entirely impossible.
 
  • #936
I can't recall which article it was in now, but there are quotes from Detective Loomis about the CL's alibi checking out, and JeM being where he said he was.
That indicates to me that he told LE about both the store visits and which ones he visited, so they were able to go there and confirm that.

Just guessing, but I suspect LE has a good few maps of their own that would really interest us.

Something I forgot about completely but the Brittney Woods case reminded me; do you think all people connected to this case allowed LE access to their cell phone records? Or could LE just pull them without permission? Phone pings would almost certainly help with sorting out who was where, and when. It also might help to see who was calling who, and when. I suppose it's too much to hope for.

One other thing; as JeM seems to have been a bit of a slow worker, and the repairs had been left to the last minute, does anyone think it's possible he may have brought someone along to help? And maybe dropped them off during his morning store trip? That's where a cell phone ping or two might really come in useful. If he did have someone helping him initially, I wouldn't wonder at them keeping quiet, or JeM protecting them, with all the attention that has been generated since.

I am really not sure if anyone could be insane enough to do that though, because how suspicious would that look if LE found out? Unless they are relying on JeM to back them up and explain their innocence, should disclosure become unavoidable.

IMO it's unlikely, I think, but not entirely impossible.

IIRC, the statement by PIO Loomis referred to the 3PM Home Depot receipt, but I could be wrong. :)
 
  • #937
I think you're right there. I remember quoting part of that statement now, where there was a reference to LE checking if JeM was alone or not.

So do you think the story about the visit to the other store surfaced after any initial statement? If indeed JeM ever made a statement. As far as I can see, the only firm evidence that any family member talked to LE is for AH, because it's in the first police report.
 
  • #938
Did JeM drive all the back to Running Springs to tell his wife JuM that her father was missing and NOT call her on the phone and have her come to the house???

If my father was missing and my husband had been at the house before he was missing, I would expect a phone call, I would expect him to tell me as soon as it happened and i would get in the car and GO TO the place my father was last seen and I would make sure people were out looking for him. I would smack the bejesus out of my husband if he just drove home and TOLD me he had disappeared from the house while he was there that day.
 
  • #939
BBM
Did JeM drive all the back to Running Springs to tell his wife JuM that her father was missing and NOT call her on the phone and have her come to the house???

If my father was missing and my husband had been at the house before he was missing, I would expect a phone call, I would expect him to tell me as soon as it happened and i would get in the car and GO TO the place my father was last seen and I would make sure people were out looking for him. I would smack the bejesus out of my husband if he just drove home and TOLD me he had disappeared from the house while he was there that day.

He did. JuM did go to the house though. But only to 'change the linens'. And she waited until the next day.
 
  • #940
As the issue of elder abuse has been raised a lot in this case, I thought I should do a little research on this too. No stone left unturned, as they say. I found an interesting and extensive study, released by the US Government's Bureau of Justice Statistics, in June this year. Report was compiled by BJS statistician Erica Smith.

Quoting from the press release as I can't post copies from this device:

'Perpetrators of elder abuse were often related to the victims.'

'A family member was identified as the perpetrator in half of violent victimizations against the elderly during the five-year period. The victim's child or grandchild was the offender in nearly a third of the victimizations.'

'Despite a lower rate of reported violence, elderly victims were more likely than
victims younger than age 65 to be murdered or to be robbed.'

'The majority of violent victimizations ( 63.6%) against persons age 65 or older took place inside a residence....The victim's child or grandchild was identified as the perpetrator in a third of the violence against elderly males in a residence and in nearly half of the violence against elderly females in a residence.'

'Offenses committed by the elderly victim's child or grandchild were most likely to result in an arrest (59.7%).'

Here is a link to the press release, which has a link to the complete report at the bottom of the page.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/press/vcerlem0509pr.cfm#top

ETA Here's the link to the full report too, as it is a bit faffy to find:

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vcerlem0509.pdf
 
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