CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 4

[cloudajo]

Interesting, I see daughter R is also a member of the forum sister J posts on.

R posted she had an ex-husband that "disappeared" for a time and then resurfaced.

http://www.rimoftheworld.net/discuss/169/19431?page=0

Thanks. So she's had some experience with a missing person. I see from this other post that they knew each other for 32 years and always cared deeply for each other. That being the case, she must have been involved in some way in the search to find him when he went missing?

http://rimoftheworld.net/discuss/169/5530?page=3

 

[believe09]

I hate to be a fly in the ointment here, but couldn't there be some innocent explanations for the properties?

On another case I've been working, we have found a number of homes owned by "family trusts," but it's not been possible to determine who is living in those homes.

From a personal perspective, my boss owns a couple of "investment" properties. In one lives a family member. In the other he's had a couple of horrific renters. Theoretically speaking, both tenants should be paying rent. The family member is someone he can take to task on a personal level. With the other, he must take legal action, which has been costly and frustrating.

Is it possible that Bob and Georgia purchased these homes as investments and preferred they be occupied by their own family members? Do we know whether the family members were paying rent? I assume the accountants, attorneys and LE know.

I'm no expert on this stuff, so IDK. My husband's family has a trust, but we bought our own house!

I think the key point is the rent or mortgage paying stuff. Cubby's source has indicated the no mortgage has been paid on the grandson's property for 18 mos or so, and formal eviction proceedings are beginning. We will post what we find from any public records searches as that process winds it's way through the courts.

I guess the x-factor then is the property in Monrovia. If no rent had been paid on it since, say, May or June 2009, then I would think that could be viewed as financial support of that family member. At a minimum. If there were other promissary notes or gifts of cash that others were witness to (for either the grandson or the adult child) for the payment of property taxes etc, I would think we could safely confirm that financial support was in place. Especially if the loans were not paid back.

I dont care what Bob did with his money prior to July 27,2009, tbh. But we have been asked to provide proof of certain information, and I am doing my best to set everyone's minds at rest that the documentation exists for this part of the story. KWIM?

 

[believe09]

So I am intrigued about the post regarding the ex...she may just be using the term disappeared in a way that is different from when we use it on this board. I am certain that a MP report on him would be available should that have been the case. I am confident in PPD that they would have that information.

It does kind of throw someone else into the mix though...

 

[Angelo]

Thanks. So she's had some experience with a missing person. I see from this other post that they knew each other for 32 years and always cared deeply for each other. That being the case, she must have been involved in some way in the search to find him when he went missing?

http://rimoftheworld.net/discuss/169/5530?page=3

BINGO!

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Angelo]

In August of last year, daughter R posted that the daughters of Bob Harrod were working to coordinate efforts with the court and the police department to hopefully be able to offer some kind of reward for Mr. Harrod's safe return. R asked the forum to please pray that they wouldl be able to do this for their father.

This post coincided with a petition filed in Orange County Court August 7, 2009 by daughters PB and RB for Appointment of Conservatorship of Estate Only of Robert Merle Harrod.

Daughters PB and RB were named as Co-conservators of the Harrod Estate and Co-trustees of the Harrod Trust in May 2010.

As of today I do not have any information that the daughters have followed-through with their plan to offer a reward.

 

[believe09]

Bummer about the reward-I know this is a source of frustration. We know the estate is substantial-why not kick a little towards the recovery of the man who earned it?

Tough to swallow.

 

[believe09]

Like to welcome the guests viewing the thread!! Take a leap and join in the conversation!

 

[Montjoy]

At the very least, offering a reward buys a missing person's family a bit of media exposure (before even a cent of it needs to be paid out, too). It can mean an opportunity to get Bob's story out again, to update the details on any posters, etc., they might want circulated. It can mean re-awakening public and LE interest in a case. If not with the trust money, could they not have put together some reward on their own? (Also, I've seen news releases for when rewards are increased, so starting with a lower sum is not even the worst thing; the public may want to make donations to it.) And if it was a matter of Bob's family not having any money on their own, how about fundraisers? These can help with money and exposure.

Why were none of these steps taken, even though offering a reward had been part of the alleged reason for the immediate attempts to control the trust? Did Bob's daughters completely fail to read anything on how families of missing people can try to help? Did not one daughter also work for a police department? I would have thought she, at least, would have some idea.

It makes me think that Bob's daughters are the last people who should be making 'blood money' accusations against him.

 

[Cubby]

At the very least, offering a reward buys a missing person's family a bit of media exposure (before even a cent of it needs to be paid out, too). It can mean an opportunity to get Bob's story out again, to update the details on any posters, etc., they might want circulated. It can mean re-awakening public and LE interest in a case. If not with the trust money, could they not have put together some reward on their own? (Also, I've seen news releases for when rewards are increased, so starting with a lower sum is not even the worst thing; the public may want to make donations to it.) And if it was a matter of Bob's family not having any money on their own, how about fundraisers? These can help with money and exposure.

Why were none of these steps taken, even though offering a reward had been part of the alleged reason for the immediate attempts to control the trust? Did Bob's daughters completely fail to read anything on how families of missing people can try to help? Did not one daughter also work for a police department? I would have thought she, at least, would have some idea.

It makes me think that Bob's daughters are the last people who should be making 'blood money' accusations against him.

When one looks at the steps, or perhaps 'stops' is a better word, which have been taken I think it paints a clear picture. It has left me personally questioning whether Bobs bio family wants him found and wants this case solved, or if they are just buying time until the 'old man' is declared deceased and they have full access to his assets. It may be harsh, but it is how I truly feel and see this incredibly heartbreaking case.

JMVHO

 

[believe09]

Rewards are never too late either...I mean you will always get crazies coming out of the woodwork, but LE can sift those pretty quickly. It would be so very nice if the money was incentive for someone to come forward with that key piece that will help get him home.

I just had a thought-why not contact the Mason's and see if they would like to raise some money to go towards this? I bet I can get Crimestoppers to match it...as long as he is not a drug dealer, abuser, criminal or pedophile they are usually willing to participate. wouldnt that be a kick??

We would have to make it enough money to bring out legitimate tips and incent people who might have relevant info to come forward. BRB.

ETA-I just contacted a resource there...I will post what I hear!

 

[Fairy1]

When one looks at the steps, or perhaps 'stops' is a better word, which have been taken I think it paints a clear picture. It has left me personally questioning whether Bobs bio family wants him found and wants this case solved, or if they are just buying time until the 'old man' is declared deceased and they have full access to his assets. It may be harsh, but it is how I truly feel and see this incredibly heartbreaking case.

JMVHO

But....wouldn't it be to their advantage to have Bob found ASAP? How long before a family can have someone declared deceased?

 

[believe09]

But....wouldn't it be to their advantage to have Bob found ASAP? How long before a family can have someone declared deceased?

You know Fairy, I was with you on that thought for a while, but it only took them until May or so this year to get the co-conservatorship executed. The question is whether or not the court is overseeing the conservatorship and the expenses being paid out from the trust. We have at least two children who are retired/not working according to their posts elsewhere...they probably can draw a salary of some kind for their time and expenses. We know they have at least 3 properties to maintain...so I am wondering if their lifestyles were impacted at all by the disappearance of their dad, financially speaking. Only financially speaking, mind you.

So if they now have access to a trust that previously they had no access to, why would dad need to be found at all?

 

[Fairy1]

You know Fairy, I was with you on that thought for a while, but it only took them until May or so this year to get the co-conservatorship executed. The question is whether or not the court is overseeing the conservatorship and the expenses being paid out from the trust. We have at least two children who are retired/not working according to their posts elsewhere...they probably can draw a salary of some kind for their time and expenses. We know they have at least 3 properties to maintain...so I am wondering if their lifestyles were impacted at all by the disappearance of their dad, financially speaking. Only financially speaking, mind you.

So if they now have access to a trust that previously they had no access to, why would dad need to be found at all?

Well, you're right. Do they have access to the funds? Does Fontelle also?

I really don't know how all this complicated financial stuff really works. We try to keep it pretty simple round here. Probably never will be considered wealthy, but then again, no one will be killing us for our $$$!

 

[carterkatt]

I know this is out in left field... but I just watched a show on TV (and someone deleted it at the end on the TiVo, so I can't give you more details)... but I think it was recorded Fri night.. I THINK it was Dateline (with Ann Curry from TODAY??)... first hour was about a realtor, young gal in her 20s in Canada that was murdered. The second hour was about a young man that was missing (carjacked) in Michigan.

My point is... while I was half watching it, and trying to carry on a conversation with others, I think they mentioned a new Dateline unsolved mysteries team of investigators that looks at cold/unsolved cases. One of the team members is a CSI woman from Las Vegas that was a model for a CSI character. (This team was investigating the realtor's murder.)

Did anyone else see this, hear this? I immediately thought of Bob's case and how it would be great if a team like that could look into it.

 

[believe09]

Well, you're right. Do they have access to the funds? Does Fontelle also?

I really don't know how all this complicated financial stuff really works. We try to keep it pretty simple round here. Probably never will be considered wealthy, but then again, no one will be killing us for our $$$!

Fontelle never made it onto the trust docs...any correspondence or statements about it disappeared with Bob...I dont know enough about CA law to know if verbal or written statements to that effect are legally binding. She has some standing in terms of staying in the home until it is all sorted out because she is his wife. And she is not his wife of 29 days or whatever...the clock is still ticking. Because he is a missing person.

The co conservators would typically be determining buying, selling, liquidating accounts and holdings. There are expenses they can claim, sometimes including their time and effort on behalf of the trust. There is still the ByPass trust to deal with...let's say there were holdings belonging to both Bob and Georgia at the time she passed and when the bypass kicked in. The bypass is a vehicle that would prevent Bob from having to pay taxes on Georgia's estate while still having control over the money. Typically the bypass would have provisions...jewelry maybe, art, real estate to be distributed etc. But Bob had control of it and could give or take money from it as he liked. The rules are pretty liberal. This is my understanding.

However, it was likely that there were holdings that needed to be split between the Harrod Trust and the Bypass trust in order to get the Tax benefit. I do not know if the split was done before he disappeared.

I wondered in a previous post who was taking care of the expenses on Carnation. It should be the Harrod Trust-I wonder if there has been provision made in the court appearances in the last year and if the money has been paid for mortgage and upkeep etc...

 

[Fairy1]

Fontelle never made it onto the trust docs...any correspondence or statements about it disappeared with Bob...I dont know enough about CA law to know if verbal or written statements to that effect are legally binding. She has some standing in terms of staying in the home until it is all sorted out because she is his wife. And she is not his wife of 29 days or whatever...the clock is still ticking. Because he is a missing person.

The co conservators would typically be determining buying, selling, liquidating accounts and holdings. There are expenses they can claim, sometimes including their time and effort on behalf of the trust. There is still the ByPass trust to deal with...let's say there were holdings belonging to both Bob and Georgia at the time she passed and when the bypass kicked in. The bypass is a vehicle that would prevent Bob from having to pay taxes on Georgia's estate while still having control over the money. Typically the bypass would have provisions...jewelry maybe, art, real estate to be distributed etc. But Bob had control of it and could give or take money from it as he liked. The rules are pretty liberal. This is my understanding.

However, it was likely that there were holdings that needed to be split between the Harrod Trust and the Bypass trust in order to get the Tax benefit. I do not know if the split was done before he disappeared.

I wondered in a previous post who was taking care of the expenses on Carnation. It should be the Harrod Trust-I wonder if there has been provision made in the court appearances in the last year and if the money has been paid for mortgage and upkeep etc...

So then, how/why are the expenses on the home where Fontelle is living being paid? I suppose there is no mortgage on the house, but what about A/C, heat, water, sanitation, etc.?

 

[believe09]

So then, how/why are the expenses on the home where Fontelle is living being paid? I suppose there is no mortgage on the house, but what about A/C, heat, water, sanitation, etc.?

If not the trust, then it must be Fontelle that is paying them. That has to be quite a different price point than MO I would think.

 

[Cubby]

But....wouldn't it be to their advantage to have Bob found ASAP? How long before a family can have someone declared deceased?

Nah, not if one doesn't profit from a crime and banking on an old mssing 81 yr old man is most often not making news. Usually IIRC it is 5-7 years to have someone declared deceased. I can think of a few cases family were able to bypass the 5-7 yr wait to have someone declared deceased. Young father in IL with minor child, Dekalb IL- Brad Olsen case.... Brads mother succesfully had him declared deceased - but is not able to get SSDI for his minor child- the sole purpose for pushing to have him declared deceased before the usual time.

I think, the Steve Fosset case and having someone declared deceased quickly and easily may be a hinderance for those wishful thinking in this case.

I don't think when all is said and done the money is gonna be flowing freely as some might have anticipated.

Hmmm... Lest we forget this is all about Bob and ONLY about Bob.
I will not forget who this thread is about.


JMO

 

[Sharyne]

I didn't get back here in time to post on the last closed thread, but saw this post and can't reply to it, so will link to it:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5592773&postcount=532 which contains a statement of 2 sources of those cleared.
The latest date that of reference to being cleared was Feb 2010
However, in looking back for CA_Exile's blog link, I came across this post:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5447627&postcount=64 This says no one has been cleared as of 07-26-2010 at 08:14 AM.

So now, which is correct?

 

[believe09]

Hi, Sharyne-for WS purposes, Hairdresser and husband are cleared and their child is a minor. There is no wiggle room on it because LE in a media statement firmly said that these people were cleared of any direct involvement in the case.

So we cannot resurrect any of them. Hope this helps!