CA - California couple accused of tricking women into carrying babies through surrogacy; 21 children seized

[Dotta]

Were there any babies missing? I haven't read that anywhere yet. From what I see they were accumulating their own babies for themselves. I don't believe that is illegal. More likely there is some kind of insanity at work here.

Were the babies registered as their children?
It was reported in my link upthread
that cars were coming and going there at night.

Why at night???

Quote:

"A neighbor, who asked not to be named, said
he suspected the couple were operating some sort of 'maternity house' for years -
and would see
cars driving in and out at all times of night."

Millionaires' twisted baby factory in California mansion exposed

From the outside, the imposing castle-like design and gated exterior made the $4.1 million mansion appear like a fortress. But behind the walls lurked a dark secret.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Cedars]

Unfortunately if the babies were not well loved and attended to, they may grow up with severe psychological problems.

 

[Stunned]

So they were baby hoarders?

 

[mickey2942]

It is a mystery. But I don't understand the "Daily Mail" calling it a "House of Horrors" or "Twisted Baby Making Factory". We really don't have the facts for this as far as I know. We have seen much worse on WS.

 

[seasideForest]

It is a mystery. But I don't understand the "Daily Mail" calling it a "House of Horrors" or "Twisted Baby Making Factory". We really don't have the facts for this as far as I know. We have seen much worse on WS.

DM, while allowed on here, does tend to use a whole lot of exaggeration in headings. That sells newspapers...
MOO

 

[AngTxGal]

I am not a fan of "surrogacy". It is not unlike prostitution to me, and that is illegal in most places. The whole thing is exploitative. Rich folks, paying women to use their bodies as a nine month incubator.

Are all of the babies linked genetically to this couple? Or is it an even deeper scenario?

Wow, how on earth is surrogacy like prostitution?
It has been pretty common for college students to donate sperm and now eggs for the purposes of research and in vitro or artificial insemination. I knew a handful of guys that helped pay for their college tuition/expenses doing this in the 1980’s.
The guys who donated had a file- so you could choose sperm of an A student who was an athlete and scored high on the SATs.
Same with the files of women who donate eggs.
Same with the files of women who give a child up for adoption.
Are the files honest, truthful and informative to a couple? No idea, but I know people who have adopted, and others who have used IVF and may have used donated sperm or eggs or both?

I do not know anyone personally who has been a surrogate or has a child who was gestated (I think that is a word) in a surrogate.
Could I be a surrogate? No, and I probably would not encourage my daughter to do such a thing. This is only because the emotional toll and bonding of the process of carrying a child. I would not want to simply walk away.

The possibilities are pretty amazing for couples who cannot conceive. We have to realize that couples today can include two married men, or two married women- and they themselves alone cannot conceive. So, I assume the demand is greater now? I don’t know.

I have no issues with the process, so long as it is completely transparent and the rights of all involved are recognized.

Would I use a surrogate if I could not conceive and carry a child- I don’t know. It would seem a lot of kids could find homes if adoption was chosen. But… I have two kids of my own that I carried for nine months. I hold zero judgment for a couple who cannot, it would be stressful in ways I cannot imagine.


IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

DM, while allowed on here, does tend to use a whole lot of exaggeration in headings. That sells newspapers...
MOO

I wouldn’t call abuse of babies/ toddlers - exaggerated at all.
That is exactly what was caught on camera. A nannie was hitting a child.
That baby was shaken, hit, and is in the hospital.

Maybe you didn't know that?
But… IMO speaking LOUDLY for children who cannot defend themselves, and those who do not have a voice would be exactly what the press should be doing. And doing it often and not stop until someone is held accountable.

Do I think the headline is inaccurate? No
Do I think the goal is to sell papers- Hmm I read the DM online and I haven't sent them a penny.

Do I think keeping such events private and quiet so they do not get the public’s attention is a better idea? No Way! That is exactly how monsters get away with abuse.

Do I worry about the headlines making people uncomfortable? No- we should be uncomfortable about abuse.

If a person does not want to be informed about cases of child abuse- why come to this thread?
That is what the case is about

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

When there are 21 children, too many for the home so they send some kids to live in other places- that is not treating children as if they are young humans. It shows a lack of understanding of what is needed to supervise and care for a child.

Do I think it is because these two parents love children and want to have many of them? No. The interview I saw with a surrogate said the couple did not act loving toward the baby at all- they didn’t hold it or care for it as if they had been waiting and wanting a child terribly badly. She said they were ‘cold’. She thought it was a cultural thing- now she wants custody so she can raise the baby herself.
They lied to her- they presented themselves as a couple wanting a second child.

Bringing babies into the world so they can be raised as if they are in an orphanage in a less developed nation is not ok. That isn’t my opinion- it is how people in civilized nations think and behave toward children.
There are laws- you can’t just have a litter of babies without adults to care for them.
3 infants 12 months or younger per adult
4 toddlers 12-35 months per adult
No more than 8 toddlers in a group together- two adults
3 year olds- the limit is 7 per adult
4-5 year olds- the limit is 8 per adult

Did they meet these expectations for child to adult ratios? If not, what other short cuts were they taking? And for what? A love of children and wanting a big family? Nope- I don’t buy it.

Why would you need so many babies near the same age at the same time?
How long had they been doing this?
Is the total number of children larger than 21?
Did they keep the children who were two, three, four, five years old?
If not- where did they go?

I’m guessing trafficking- and if that is the case, and the home that looks like a motel on the inside would be accurately described as a House of Horrors.

Time will tell, maybe the high blood pressure I’m currently feeling and the sickness in my gut is completely wrong here. I sure hope so
IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

That's not what I said! Not at all.

iirc it is not yet known that the couple ran a 'baby-making factory' in their home, so IMO putting that in the heading is a way to sell newspapers. DM writes in a way that tugs at people's heart-strings while slightly exaggerating and/or adding words that create a picture which may not be quite the truth. I know it is acceptable media on here, but I do not rely solely on DM for my information.

All MOO

Maybe you haven’t see all the other articles related to this situation and how they are titled- some are horrific. To me the situation seems pretty horrific.

I’m sure there is more to the story, a baby was shaken and hit and is hospitalized.
Innocent couple that just wants a big family is not what anyone is speculating.

Renting a womb’ Behind California’s underground baby farm industry‘ News Nation

21 Children removed from California home amid abuse claims and surrogate mothers being misled- CNN

IMO

 

[Dotta]

Time will tell, maybe the high blood pressure I’m currently feeling and the sickness in my gut is completely wrong here. I sure hope so
IMO

I'm afraid it is only the TIP of the iceberg.

And IMO!!!!
It looks exactly like a FACTORY of babies.
Or a "breeding farm" of human beings.
All signs indicate trafficking/illegal selling IMO

Red flags flapping

JMO!!!

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Some posts have been removed due to bickering, rudeness and personalizing.

Discuss this case in a respectful manner or Time Outs will be issued.

 

[AngTxGal]

Were there any babies missing? I haven't read that anywhere yet. From what I see they were accumulating their own babies for themselves. I don't believe that is illegal. More likely there is some kind of insanity at work here.

As the FBI is involved I’m sure we will find out eventually.
Yes it is illegal to misrepresent to surrogats
Child abuse was found on video camera footage in the home

In this interview they are finding connections between the city to the state and other states and other countries

The 2 month old baby was ‘violently shaken” and hit- has suffered traumatic brain injury. The nannie is at large

I’m not thinking insanity, I’m thinking human trafficking

ABC7 News

IMO

 

[Tee7077]

Yeah this is a headscratcher. What's the motivation for this? God complex?

I think they were running an illegal baby fighting ring.

 

[Bounceycat]

I think they were running an illegal baby fighting ring.

I'm sorry, WHAT?!

 

[LadyL]

I wouldn’t call abuse of babies/ toddlers - exaggerated at all.
That is exactly what was caught on camera. A nannie was hitting a child.
That baby was shaken, hit, and is in the hospital.

Maybe you didn't know that?
But… IMO speaking LOUDLY for children who cannot defend themselves, and those who do not have a voice would be exactly what the press should be doing. And doing it often and not stop until someone is held accountable.

Do I think the headline is inaccurate? No
Do I think the goal is to sell papers- Hmm I read the DM online and I haven't sent them a penny.

Do I think keeping such events private and quiet so they do not get the public’s attention is a better idea? No Way! That is exactly how monsters get away with abuse.

Do I worry about the headlines making people uncomfortable? No- we should be uncomfortable about abuse.

If a person does not want to be informed about cases of child abuse- why come to this thread?
That is what the case is about

IMO

o/t but clicking on their links creates revenue for them
but I agree the children were in a house of horrors if one or more people were abusing them

 

[Knox]

Were the babies registered as their children?
It was reported in my link upthread
that cars were coming and going there at night.

Why at night???

Quote:

"A neighbor, who asked not to be named, said
he suspected the couple were operating some sort of 'maternity house' for years -
and would see
cars driving in and out at all times of night."

Millionaires' twisted baby factory in California mansion exposed

From the outside, the imposing castle-like design and gated exterior made the $4.1 million mansion appear like a fortress. But behind the walls lurked a dark secret.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Very interesting about the vehicle mention. I’ll see if I can find a way to talk about what I found when running a people search report.

 

[Knox]

o/t but clicking on their links creates revenue for them
but I agree the children were in a house of horrors if one or more people were abusing them

That’s not an if, it’s fact. In one of the stories up thread. LE stated there were other instances of abuse in the home caught on video, by other nannies. That’s another reason they were ALL removed.

 

[AngTxGal]

That’s not an if, it’s fact. In one of the stories up thread. LE stated there were other instances of abuse in the home caught on video, by other nannies. That’s another reason they were ALL removed.

And if a nannie was caught shaking and hitting a two month old baby, then anyone would assume what was caught on camera was not the only incident.

That baby now has traumatic brain injury- wasn’t taken to the hospital for two days.

The Nannie is on the run- LE is trying to find her.

IMO

 

[Dotta]

This case hit headlines in my country in Europe

​

"Couple Had 21 Children Through Surrogacy. ​

Possible Human Trafficking in California.​

Documents show that the couple's villa was once home to a company
called Mark Surrogacy Investment LLC.

The company's Tsurrogacy services license expired in June.
ABC7 reported that Zhang and Xuan owned the company.

The FBI has been involved in the investigation.
Experts say they suspect 'human trafficking'."

Para miała 21 dzieci z surogatek. Możliwy handel ludźmi w Kalifornii

Władze przejęły opiekę nad 21 dziećmi urodzonymi przez surogatki dla kalifornijskiej pary - Silvii Zhang i Guojuna Xuana. Do śledztwa zaangażowano FBI. Eksperci mówią o podejrzeniu "handlu ludźmi".

wiadomosci.wp.pl

"Key facts:

• American media describe the unusual story of a couple from Arcadia, California.
• A few months ago, 38-year-old Silvia Zhang and 65-year-old Guojun Xuan were arrested in connection with injuries found on their child's body. The couple has since been released. However, their case remains under investigation.
• As it turned out, the couple are parents to as many as 21 children, most or all of whom were born to surrogates.
• The couple maintain they simply wanted a large family. Police are investigating whether the case is connected to human trafficking."

21 dzieci, w większości urodzonych przez surogatki. Rodzice objęci dochodzeniem

Policja w Kalifornii prowadzi śledztwo w sprawie pary, która miała pod swoją opieką 21 dzieci. Większość z nich zostało urodzonych przez surogatki. Śledczy sprawdzają, czy kobiety nie zostały celowo wprowadzone w błąd. Badają też motywacje małżeństwa i jej ewentualne powiązania z handlem ludźmi.

tvn24.pl

 

[stonedgnome]

I think they were running an illegal baby fighting ring.

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not, but I hope it was a joke because the mental image of a baby fighting ring made me laugh.