CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[morphee]

Is it possible that there actually was another individual in the video that would have been edited out or erased, intentionally by LAPD, to not expose a potential witness or suspect?

 

[Xavier]

Here's what gets me; if there were no signs of trauma on the body, then why the water-tank? It would be so much easier to just toss her from the roof, especially if she was still alive.

The only motive I have left for the water-tank was not to hide a body, but to contain a threat. If he considered her a threat, then why didn't he just take her down to the lobby and turn her in? Well, he wouldn't if he believed they weren't trustworthy either, meaning he's a paranoid schizophrenic, and Skid Row just happens to be filled with them.

He had this threat, and didn't know what to do with her, so he locked her in the water-tank.

In his mind, he didn't do anything wrong. His defense would be, "hey, I told her to leave. Heck, I gave her 20-seconds. What was I supposed to do?"

Very possible FUTZ and makes sense

The hotel's location in skid row, plus the residents, some were/are folks with major disabilities/mental illness makes you theory stick

I wonder if LA LE is getting a vibe to investigate the residents of the Cecil

 

[morphee]

Just because it was brought up on the board as a possibility... cloaking technology makes a splash at the TED2013 conference, just today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-cloak-TED2013-conference--says-did-fun.html

 

[GlobalGirlyGirl]

I wonder if LA LE is getting a vibe to investigate the residents of the Cecil[/B]

I hope they are going through the residents, security, and hotel staff with an extra fine-tooth comb. I really believe that she was a victim of foul play, and the person knows that hotel inside (cameras) and out (water tank).

 

[BuzzieCat]

[snipped for space by me]

View from the Elevator - Common area shower / bathroom, and another door with red plaque. What's it say?

To me it looks like the red plaque says "shower," but I can't make out the black plaque. Maybe the two rooms together are two toilet rooms?

 

[skyfitsheaven]

T

Someone wanted to know why she was staying at the Cecil Hotel in the first place. I think the reason is that the Fashion District is located right behind the hotel, and this would help to explain the comment made by an acquaintance of hers in an earlier post, that she would never wear such fancy heels as seen in the elevator.

Except Elisa isn't wearing heels. She's wearing flats. You can see them clearly when she jumps out of the elevator.

 

[Xavier]

Maybe she was being stalked?


We dont know that there was no one down the hallway that she was gesturing to. What is really, really weird is how the elevator doors won't close after a short while, despite her manically and repeatedly pushing the buttons. Why was the elevator stuck so long without moving?

Was someone holding the elevator buttons?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMP1UfPnVaw"]A New Video Released by Police Shows Elisa Lam Pressing Several Buttons in an Elevator - YouTube[/ame]

 

[BunnyHop]

I'm late but I wanted to point out that I'm pretty sure that it's not a reblog of a post made in October but a reblog of a post from two days ago (which itself was a reblog of a post made in October). This post is the one reblogged, it's a pain because they don't have dates on their layout but when I look at where it would be on my dashboard it comes up as February 25th. So yes, someone else must have reblogged it.

I also wanted to add that I don't find it odd that she had so many posts in her queue, I know people who have their queue filled or scheduled posts for months in advance but as I said it's not possible with this post.

I don't understand Tumblr, but that's creepy.

 

[morphee]

To me it looks like the red plaque says "shower," but I can't make out the black plaque. Maybe the two rooms together are two toilet rooms?

Right looks like TOILET to me:
http://screencast.com/t/APCWGN1lj

 

[samevo8]

From the video, she presses 7 buttons, the bottom one being the Door Hold button. From what I read of the Door Hold test (conducted by some of the Chinese folks making videos), the door will stay open for 2 minutes.

Maybe she was being stalked?


We dont know that there was no one down the hallway that she was gesturing to. What is really, really weird is how the elevator doors dont auto-close after a few seconds, despite her frantically and repeatedly pushing the buttons. Why was the elevator stuck so long there without moving?

Was someone holding the elevator buttons?

A New Video Released by Police Shows Elisa Lam Pressing Several Buttons in an Elevator - YouTube

 

[manlet]

Can I just say there's a big difference between the 4th floor and 14th floor. IMO there's no way someone forgets they're on the 4th floor and ends up on the 14th floor...unless they were drugged or hallucinating or didn't go up there by choice. I don't care how blind you're you would know right away that something is off because the elevator would take longer to go up 10 more floors... She would also notice the color difference on the walls and other signs she's on the wrong floor as well. Also the Stay hotel rooms have a key card, not a real key like the Cecil rooms do. There's no way for her to accidentally try to enter another room on that floor since she doesn't have a key and there's no key card slot. She also doesn't appear to be holding a key card which is odd unless it's it in one of her pockets. I've also known blind people who can easily find their way up a hotel elevator to the floor they're on, and this girl gets lost? I don't believe it and feel WE CAN RULE OUT THAT SHE ENDED UP BY MISTAKE ON THE 14TH FLOOR. Because nobody ends up 10 floors away from the floor they're on by mistake unless they went up there for a particular reason on their own or were brought up there by gunpoint/threat/etc.

I also doubt she would be looking for a bathroom/shower to use on another floor, especially a floor 10 floors up from her room, come on! After all she doesn't have any towel/washcloth/soap/toilet paper/purse with her or a change of clothes. So we can rule that out..

No footage was released of her going up the elevator to the 14th floor, so I assume she took the stairs up there? Perhaps she was just wondering around the hotel late at night because she couldn't sleep. Perhaps she wanted to go to the roof and see the stars/moon/view, but couldn't get the fire escape window open and made loud noises trying to get it open which woke someone up on the floor who got pissed at her or who helped her go to the roof?

I don't believe she was sleep walking , but I really don't understand the whole sleep walking syndrome and how that works, and don't sleepwalkers always have their arms out like a walking zombie? or is that just in the movies? I believe we can rule out sleep walking IMO as she seems to aware in the elevator footage. She may be in some drugged out daze, but I don't think so as she seems really aware and awake to be dreaming or drugged and to be hashing out those moves in the elevator. She seems very aware to me and not in fear.

Just my opinions..we all got them.

 

[Xavier]

I hope they are going through the residents, security, and hotel staff with an extra fine-tooth comb. I really believe that she was a victim of foul play, and the person knows that hotel inside (cameras) and out (water tank).

I agree 1000% ... IMO The perp is very familiar with the hotel

And why choose something so odd, remote and bizarre as an outdoor water cistern, especially if they were supposed to be locked and very high to get to the top, maybe 10 feet high

This youtube.com video discusses letters from EL to her friend, mentioning Lam's fear of some crazy Italian, Mexican stalkers

The death of Canadian tourist Elisa Lam remains a mystery, but police have narrowed the list of suspects to employees at the Cecil Hotel, particularly those who have access to the room keys and the rooftop door.




[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOaXm4KJli8"]Elisa Lam's killer suspect - YouTube[/ame] /B]

 

[BuzzieCat]

Right looks like TOILET to me:
http://screencast.com/t/APCWGN1lj

I think I see it now that you said that. Makes sense there would be two toilets since that would be a more urgent and frequent need than the shower rooms. So two toilet rooms and a shower, probably.

 

[samevo8]

I don't know much about sleep walking, but I have heard that people can do quite complicated tasks while sleep walking. For example, this lady who drove to work in her sleep (until she crashed.)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-drove-work-pyjamas-drinking-bottle-wine.html

I don't believe she was sleep walking , but I really don't understand the whole sleep walking syndrome and how that works, and don't sleepwalkers always have their arms out like a walking zombie? or is that just in the movies? I believe we can rule out sleep walking IMO as she seems to aware in the elevator footage. She may be in some drugged out daze, but I don't think so as she seems really aware and awake to be dreaming or drugged and to be hashing out those moves in the elevator. She seems very aware to me and not in fear.

Just my opinions..we all got them.

 

[FutzBucket]

Maybe she was being stalked?


We dont know that there was no one down the hallway that she was gesturing to. What is really, really weird is how the elevator doors won't close after a short while, despite her manically and repeatedly pushing the buttons. Why was the elevator stuck so long without moving?

Was someone holding the elevator buttons?

A New Video Released by Police Shows Elisa Lam Pressing Several Buttons in an Elevator - YouTube

It is confusing, but it's a combination of both. There's a suspect in the hall to the left, and he's got control of the hallway's elevator button. EL has control of the elevator buttons, but she mistakes "HOLD DOOR" for "CLOSE DOOR" and she keeps accidentally holding the doors open.

When EL first enters the elevator, she has control and the doors are about to shut, but she accidentally hits "HOLD DOOR". Then the suspect enters left of the camera, holds the button, and orders her out in the hall.

After shaking her down in the hallway, he allows her back into the elevator and gives her 20-seconds to leave, and she desperately tries to, but she keeps hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button.

After 20-seconds, the suspect hits the hallway button and orders her back out.

 

[medsleuth]

The sign makes it even more obvious that Stay hostelers were not supposed to be roaming the upper floors. There's no video of her getting up to the 15th floor so looks like young adventuring through the old haunted hotel.

Hotel Cecil Warning Sign - "Awful place! Just got escorted out by security because I was visiting a friend in a room. Apparently there's NO VISITORS ALLOWED ANY TIME. They told me I had to just show my ID downstairs and I would be fine. And then they told me I had to leave and wouldn't even let me go back for my bag!"

 

[FiveFelines]

Hi! I’m another newbie/former lurker. I’ve been obsessed with this case and have read all of the prior threads here on it. So much good sleuthing.

I am fairly flummoxed by the video, and since we don’t know how soon she died after that video (minutes? hours), I decided to focus mainly on how she ended up dead in a rooftop water tank. These are the major possibilities I came up with. Please add or refute as you see fit!

How does she get up on the roof?

1. She knows about the fire escape access (or a new friend tells her about it) and climbs up there on her own.
2. She knows from previously trying or from a new friend that the fire door is unlocked and alarm doesn’t work.
3. Someone lures her up there, whether by force (unlikely, IMO) or with the promise of socializing, fun, view of skyline, whatnot.

These first three options mean she goes up on the roof alive and dies there, either by accident, suicide, or homicide. Or she’s dead/unconscious:

4. She is assaulted in her room or elsewhere in the hotel by an employee with roof access through the door (key), or who knows that the door is unlocked/alarm doesn’t work and that the roof is unoccupied. Then she’s brought to the roof by this person, either unconscious or already dead.
5. She is assaulted in her room or elsewhere in the hotel by a fellow guest or longtime resident who knows that the door is unlocked/alarm doesn’t work and that the roof is unoccupied. Then she’s brought to the roof by this person, either unconscious or already dead.

IMO, the least likely scenario is:

6. She is assaulted in her room or elsewhere in the hotel by an employee, resident, or guest and brought up to the roof, either unconscious or dead, to the fire escape. Unless you’ve got two perps, this seems too physically difficult.

How does she get into the water tank?

1. She researches the hotel ahead of time, knows there are tanks, and goes up to the roof with the intent of either playing around in them or killing herself.
2. She is up on the roof, either at the time of her death or earlier, sees the tanks, and decides to climb into one, either playing around or with the intention of killing herself. If an accident, she could be alone or with other people (assuming it’s a game or she’s hiding from someone
3. She is murdered elsewhere and placed in the tank (either view ladder or by dropping her from above).
4. She is murdered on the roof and placed in the tank. (Judging by the new pics of beer bottles, etc., on the roof, it’s clear this was a party place. Maybe she interrupts an employee/resident party, they assault and kill her, and put her body in the tank.)
5. She falls/overdoses/dies accidentally and is placed in the tank by the people she’s with.
6. She is placed in one of the tanks alive and dies then or later on (presumably from hypothermia, suffocation (if the hatch is closed), or drowning (was this absolutely ruled out?).

BTW, I did a search for people who have died in water tanks. The results I found were either by accident or suicide. The accidents seem to involve children who fell in ground-level tanks or workers who fell in while cleaning a tank. The suicides range from people hanging themselves outside the tank, to drowning themselves inside them (not on rooftops, though, as far as I can tell), to jumping off the outside of tall water tanks. Apparently there is quite a problem with water tank-related suicides in India, but nothing like what we see in this case.

Arguments for/against manner of death:

Accident:
Pro: She sounds free-spirited (solo travel) and friendly. Could have made new friends and tried to climb and enter the tank on a dare. Or she could have tried to hide in it, either from someone chasing her or as the result of a game (it does appear that she could be playing elevator tag in the video). The tank’s latch was apparently unlocked and she could have accessed the roof as described above.
Con: That’s a pretty specific accident to have. I also think that if she died accidentally near the tank, it’s relatively unlikely that her “friends” would have gone through the trouble to put her in the tank. Maybe they’d drag her in back of something or just leave her on the roof, but I would think that if they were freaked out, they’d want to take off asap.

Suicide:
Pro: She’s admittedly depressed, bipolar, confused about her future, and an insomniac. Some of her posts on her pre-Tumbler blog seem rather bleak. A tank seems like a weird place to die, but there have been stranger suicides. As someone here noted earlier, there was also a case of a NJ man who committed suicide in a water tank. People go off into the woods and kill themselves, never to be found—they don’t want to be found right away or ever—so I can see why she might do this.
Con: Why the tank when she could just jump off the roof, hang herself, or presumably OD on prescription meds/drugs in her room? It doesn’t seem like a foolproof way to go. Unless she went into the tank, didn’t die right away, changed her mind, and then couldn’t get out. Plus, could she have closed the hatch to the tank? Also, she was very active on social media and didn’t leave any kind of farewell post, not that this is especially common.

Homicide:
Pro: She’s friendly, outgoing, slightly loopy/silly according to some, a woman, relatively small, and possibly either experiencing a mental break or on some kind of mind-altering medication or drug in the video. All of which is to say, she makes a pretty ideal victim. The hotel has a fairly large population of questionable residents who know the building, as well as short-term international travelers who could make a quick escape. Plus, it has security guards and presumably maintenance men, who may have keys to all the rooms. (I have read about cases where women were raped/murdered in their own apartments by security guards/maintenance men.) BTW, I’m aware that there are at least two sex offenders in the hotel, but they are both pretty old and their convictions were for child rape/molestation. Not saying they couldn’t do this, but she may not be their target victim. Of course, there could be all sorts of other nefarious characters in the hotel.
Con: I think this was a homicide, simply because of the logistics of getting her in the tank. It could be that she was killed accidentally or intentionally. Maybe smothered by pillow mid-assault? However, the killer would have to be someone familiar enough with the building to get up on the roof sight unseen and/or without setting off alarms. I would guess that taking her (dead weight) up the fire escape ladder would be too difficult. Why not just throw her off the building then?

What is she doing in the elevator?

I have no idea, but I lean toward her being drugged on something (either intentionally or not), including Ambien. Google “sleepwalking on Ambien”. It can make you do some crazy stuff—I’ve seen it in my friends and mother, who takes it. I do question the presence of her sandals, etc., if that’s the case, but I suppose if you can drive a car on Ambien, you can put on some shoes and a hoodie.

My other guess is that she’s fooling around or playing elevator tag with someone. If this is the case and she intends to go on the roof later, it might explain the hoodie.

Her glasses: We have no idea what her prescription is, how often she wears them, etc. I wear glasses mainly for distance but tend to take them off if I’m just walking around inside, socializing, etc. The fact is, we just don’t know how bad her eyesight is. If she really can’t see without them, then that could explain her button-pushing behavior, but not really anything else (including how she could climb up a fire escape and/or into a water tank at night if she went willingly).

What I don’t think happened:

- cult sacrifice
- inside job to get publicity for the hotel

The first is intriguing because all the weird coincidences people have mentioned here, but I just don’t think it’s likely.

The second seems less plausible because the new owner (who did the renovations and added Stay) has been very vocal about trying to demonstrate that the Cecil/Stay are not crappy, dangerous, etc. If you read the online reviews (tripadvisor, people’s blogs) he comments and refutes their complaints. Seems like the last thing he would want is bad publicity. Of course, you could argue that someone has it in for him and killed her, but that seems like a bit of a stretch.

In the end, I suspect that, if this case is solved, it will show one of the simpler explanations: She was killed by a resident/employee/guest because they saw an easy mark, tried to assault/rape her, murdered her, and then needed to hide the body because they couldn’t keep it in their room.

JMO, of course. Eager to keep seeing everyone’s ideas!

 

[skyfitsheaven]

Hi! I’m another newbie/former lurker. I’ve been obsessed with this case and have read all of the prior threads here on it. So much good sleuthing.



In the end, I suspect that, if this case is solved, it will show one of the simpler explanations: She was killed by a resident/employee/guest because they saw an easy mark, tried to assault/rape her, murdered her, and then needed to hide the body because they couldn’t keep it in their room.

JMO, of course. Eager to keep seeing everyone’s ideas!

GREAT analysis! I hope you keep posting

I think she was killed on the roof and then put into the water tank. Carrying her up to the water tank would have been too risky. Don't think it was a resident, but frequent visitor who knew the place well. I've read that the Cecil is often a holding spot for parolees. That seems to be an obvious place to look.

 

[bobmeier]

I'm late but I wanted to point out that I'm pretty sure that it's not a reblog of a post made in October but a reblog of a post from two days ago (which itself was a reblog of a post made in October). This post is the one reblogged, it's a pain because they don't have dates on their layout but when I look at where it would be on my dashboard it comes up as February 25th. So yes, someone else must have reblogged it.

I also wanted to add that I don't find it odd that she had so many posts in her queue, I know people who have their queue filled or scheduled posts for months in advance but as I said it's not possible with this post.

I just checked out the archives of the tumblr "magrittesque" which is the link you posted & where Elisa reposted this image from. Luckily, Tumblr archives are
always dated and magrittesque reposted the image herself from yet another user on Dec 31st, 2012. It is thus likely that Elisa saw back then it then and queued it to be posted now. It is also obvious that her posts are becoming less and less so that shows that the number of posts she auto qeued is coming to an end.
So it might seem creepy to people not used to tumblr, but to me it is just a little sad but, by itself, is not suspicous at all.

 

[samevo8]

I think it would be a stretch to say that EL knew of any particular stalkers.

From her Jan 27th entry "I’m going out tonight

I really hope no creeper comes near me

Seriously though

those Italian and Mexican guys go after you STRONG

Show the slightest inclination and they hound you"
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/41581697593/im-going-out-tonight-i-really-hope-no-creeper

Sounds more like generalization than concern for particular "stalkers." I'm sure it's just a girl on her own expressing their thoughts on creepy or agressive guys. Given some previous Tumblr entries from EL, where she says she's comfortable judging people from where they're from, it seems to be in line with generalizations about people (Mexicans and Italians in this case) in the posting on the 27th.

I think the Youtube clip is a bit sensationalistic. Cool computer graphic re-enactments, however. I wonder about that Left 4 Dead reference that they throw in.

I agree 1000% ... IMO The perp is very familiar with the hotel

And why choose something so odd, remote and bizarre as an outdoor water cistern, especially if they were supposed to be locked and very high to get to the top, maybe 10 feet high

This youtube.com video discusses letters from EL to her friend, mentioning Lam's fear of some crazy Italian, Mexican stalkers

The death of Canadian tourist Elisa Lam remains a mystery, but police have narrowed the list of suspects to employees at the Cecil Hotel, particularly those who have access to the room keys and the rooftop door.




Elisa Lam's killer suspect - YouTube /B]