CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[Joe Friday]

I'm sure I've read other conflicting media accounts, but no matter.
I'm wondering why we've been shown dark, oily black water remnants
in the tank, been treated to details of black water coming from pipes,
and yet the maintenance guy can see clear as day to the bottom of
the tank.

I don't recall if it was mentioned how full the tank was when the maintenance worker first looked into the tank. It could have been nearly empty.

I think if the water was dark or black enough to obscure Elisa's body from being seen at the bottom of the tank, the water being used would have remained dark and not cleared up after a few seconds according to the guests who were interviewed in the story below.

Where did you see the dark, oily black water remnants from the tank being shown?

"The shower was awful," Sabina Baugh said. "When you turned the tap on, the water was coming black first for two seconds and then it was going back to normal."

The tap water "tasted horrible," Baugh said. "It had a very funny, sweety, disgusting taste. It's a very strange taste. I can barely describe it."

But for a week, they never complained. "We never thought anything of it," she said. "We thought it was just the way it was here."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/21/us/california-hotel-water-corpse/index.html

 

[RhiannonR]

It's only human to want to see patterns everywhere.
We want to make sense of the world. So we go looking for patterns, similarities, etc.

Its like when you look in hindsight, it seems ironic that the last bookstore Elisa went to is called the "Last Bookstore". If she was alive and well now, nobody would think anything of that bookstore other than it had an unusual name.

Since we've lost so many bookstores here in L.A. over the last few decades, it really is one of the last ones downtown...

 

[anansie]

I don't recall if it was mentioned how full the tank was when the maintenance worker first looked into the tank. It could have been nearly empty.

I think if the water was dark or black enough to obscure Elisa's body from being seen at the bottom of the tank, the water being used would have remained dark and not cleared up after a few seconds according to the guests who were interviewed in the story below.

Where did you see the dark, oily black water remnants from the tank being shown?

I've heard reports saying the tank was 3/4 full. Wonder if someone might be able to dig up that report.

 

[FiveFelines]

IF Elisa were to have written the graffiti herself (which I think is extremely unlikely), she would have had to either: carry a spray can up the elevator in her pockets, found one on the 14th, 15th or roof lying around, or someone gave it to her.

She would need to know Spanish.

She would need to have no qualms about writing the word "C*nt".

If she was referring to herself, she would have been referring to herself in 3rd person.

She would need to have some sort of connection to 2012, even though it's 2013.

The spray paint can would need to be either clogged in the water pipes, potentially leaking dangerous chemicals, or lying around somewhere on the roof.

Most of all, she would need a reason. Has she written graffiti before? Why start now?

I think the graffiti is disturbing, but most likely unrelated for the reasons you cite here. It looked more like it could be connected until someone here found the photo of the 2012 graffiti.

Did we confirm that it's in Spanish or Latin? IIRC, Elisa's pre-Tumblr blog (linked earlier) had a post with a Latin heading, but that means little because most people know basic Latin sayings.

There is one tiny (I mean, really tiny) part of me that associates the EL graffiti with the "She saved him, can you save her?" note in the Rebecca Zahou case. Like it's some weird suicide message (or murder message, if you're so inclined). Highly unlikely though.

 

[FiveFelines]

I've heard reports saying the tank was 3/4 full. Wonder if someone might be able to dig up that report.

I remember that too. Although, I think it may have been the same report that said all her limbs were broken, which I think is in dispute.

 

[RhiannonR]

There's all kinds of wacky graffiti and taggings in L.A., trust me!

 

[anansie]

Okay found one news report that quotes the 3/4 full tank thing. Its from a Canadian source. I hope "The Star" is a legit newspaper

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2..._canadian_tourist_found_in_la_hotel_tank.html

"LAPD Sgt. Rudy Lopez called it suspicious and said a coroner’s investigation will determine Lam’s cause of death.... ... Lam’s body was found Tuesday morning at the bottom of one cistern that was about three-quarters full of water, Lopez said."

There are many other news channels saying the tank was 3/4 full :

http://www.examiner.com/article/elisa-lam-update-body-found-tank-decomposed-for-as-long-as-19-days

"Elisa Lam's body was found at the bottom of the one cistern that was about three-quarters full of water, according to Los Angeles Police Sgt. Rudy Lopez."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-where-missing-canadian-woman-was-found-dead/

"Lam's body was found Tuesday morning at the bottom of one cistern that was about three-quarters full of water, Lopez said."

If you Google "elisa lam three quarter" you'll find a load of reports from various news sources saying the same thing...

So I believe this "3/4 full tank" thing is official.

 

[Borris]

I had been wondering why the maintenance worker would respond to complaints about low water pressure when the hotel was designed for low water pressure due to the tiny bathrooms. This thread shows that the cold water was actually blocked on some floors.

I was in The Cecil hotel the day they found Elisa Lam's body AMA (self.IAmA)

submitted 4 days ago by helohelo
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[–]thetebe 2 points 4 days ago

For the sake of IAmA: Proof should be given.

What are your feelings about it? Do you fear tapwater now?

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago

I'd be happy to give it I'm just not sure how I would go about giving proof. Well as far as right now I'm a little tramutized by the whole situation, though I know in a couple of weeks it will be a great travel story.

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[–]thetebe 1 point 4 days ago

Not sure either. A receipt from the hotel, maybe? I do belive you on a personal level though, based on your answers given.

Do you know anyone else that stayed there or where you alone and how did they react if so?

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago

I am on my ipad so a recipt may be hard to publish. I was by myself but I did make a few friends whilst I was there. It was funny though everyone's first thought was shock but after a while we just all got drunk and had a good laugh about it. I think it was one of those moments where this terrible situation brought everyone together.

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[–]thetebe 1 point 4 days ago

That's cool. You have proof then if needed.

That seems like healthy reaction to it. Have you talked to anyone of them since then?

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago

Just Facebooking and what not. We were all joking around and talk about sueing them then going to Vegas and have a huge blowout.

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[–]TapatioDoritos 1 point 2 days ago

You LAUGHED about it? A woman died.

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[–]MissMeowMix 2 points 4 days ago*

Did anyone recommend the guests get some sort of health check?

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[–]helohelo 3 points 4 days ago

Not at all. From what we were told the water was properly filtered so the bacteria would of been killed. Apparently some have done some check ups and have found nothing wrong with them.

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[–]TheOfficialBestower 3 points 4 days ago*

I, The Official Bestower, bestow upon you the award of "Corpse Tea Drinker."

Congratulations on your newest achievement.

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[–]milpooooooool 1 point 4 days ago

Did you take a shower or drink any of the hotel water?

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[–]helohelo 3 points 4 days ago*

Well the first day I tried the water and it tasted feral. I just assumed it was California water that tasted like that. As far as showers go I had about 3 showers whilst I was there. Also washed my clothes and cleaned my teeth.

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[–]MissMeowMix 0 points 4 days ago

Fereal?

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[–]helohelo 2 points 4 days ago

Feral sorry. So like really disgusting

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[–]MissMeowMix 1 point 4 days ago

Ewww. Did it look or smell weird?

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago

Not it all the only evidence we had is that there was hardly any water flow from it.

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[–]Charlesm313131 1 point 4 days ago

How was the water?

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago*

It tasted feral. Other people told me that Cali water tasted disgusting so I assumed it was that. I drank bottled water for the rest of the trip

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[–]AssuredNarwhal 1 point 4 days ago

I was at the Cecil from the 1st to the 4th, didn't drink the water but I did shower in it and brush my teeth. Didn't find out until after I was home and read it in the news that there was a dead body in the water supply.

What floor did you stay on?

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago

I stayed on the 4th if I remeber correctly. My taps were the ones that wouldn't turn on.

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[–]AssuredNarwhal 1 point 3 days ago

My shower worked, but the sink had no cold water... only hot. I was on the 12th floor.

To be honest, the place is ancient and creepy, but in a cool way. I really kinda liked it. I had this huge gas pipe running floor to ceiling about a foot into the room, which made the dresser sit in the middle of the room. Made me laugh.

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[–]kelris 1 point 4 days ago

Do the lifts need a key card to operate and do the doors not close unless you press the buttons?

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago

Actually no. If before 10 at night anyone can walk in and go to any floor they want.

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[–]bobmeier 1 point 4 days ago

So if I am correct, there is both a Hotel (Cecil) and a hostel (The Stay) inside the building, even sharing the same elevators... you would have been able to enter both then?

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[–]boredmommy 1 point 4 days ago

Please tell us any rumors you had heard so far about this case.

One I heard, this is an inside job. The killer knew the hotel well so got a way to hide the body. and He/She is still in the hotel.

For me, this case looks like 2 "abnormal" strangers encountered something abnormal and it turned out one is dead.

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[–]helohelo 2 points 4 days ago*

Well as far as "gossip" from the hotel goes we kinda have this thought that it was a staff memeber. The thought was that the roof of the hotel was were staff memebers "partook" in drug use. We believe that next they see this attractive young girl invited her to take drugs with him/her or them then while the were all drug up and what not she decided to go for a swim and drowned in the water. A really good point to this story is that there are security cameras in every hallway meaning there must be more footage of Elisa after she was in the elevator which was never revealed.

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[–]boredmommy 1 point 4 days ago

cameras in every hallway

Well..this is the suspicions I hold at the first glance of the news. Whythere is only 1 cameras released on news.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions in one way!..This whole case sounds very strange..but it might be really a simple case, easy to dope out..

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[–]Alechs 1 point 4 days ago

Is it possible that the cameras were fake (just to discourage crimes)? I dont know how common this is in the USA.

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[–]razorbladecherry 1 point 4 days ago

Have you been ill at all from drinking the water?

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[–]helohelo 2 points 4 days ago

I didn't get sick but I did break out in rashes. There no longer there and I don't know if its related but I only had them while I was staying there.

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[–]razorbladecherry 1 point 4 days ago

Eww. Are you feeling fine now?

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago

Perfectly fine

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[–][deleted] 4 days ago

[deleted]

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[–]helohelo 1 point 4 days ago

i don't drink coffee but had watered oatmeal and it was fine. People have to remeber there are 4 water tanks meaning that there was a 75% chance you weren't drinking that water.

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[–]DyedInkSun 1 point 4 days ago

Have you been screened by LAPD or any law enforcement regarding your stay?

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[–]helohelo 2 points 4 days ago

None at all.

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[–]TChuff 1 point 4 days ago

Where are you going backpacking? Why come to LA vs. Alaska for example? What is the best city in Austrailia? Have you ever been to Perth?

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[–]Alechs 1 point 4 days ago

Is it easy to get access to the roof? Fire escape staircase or whatever...?

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[–][deleted] 4 days ago*

[deleted]

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[–]helohelo 1 point 3 days ago

1.It's such a big place it's hard to say. I assume people in the higher floors could hear things going on the roof if they were REALLY loud. 2. They claimed that it was but they were a little slack on some things. There's a slight chance that they never locked it and were just back peddeling so they don't get sued 3. VERY VERY easily. They had security but they would rarely ask to see your key. 4. The main entry closes meaning you have to use your key to get inside the hotel. 5. It was very safe I thought going up and down the stairs and I mean you could visit other floors but unless you knew someone on these floors there was really no point.

 

[four_seasons]

I've heard reports saying the tank was 3/4 full. Wonder if someone might be able to dig up that report.

Could it be that the water wasn't so full when EL died and she was struggling in there and stirred up all the murky water on the bottom of the cistern? and that's what caused the black water to come out of the showers?

 

[FiveFelines]

I think you could see a body in that. From what I have read, the water was black-ish, but not like a thick, black sludge. You could probably still see a body in there, especially if the person was nude, as reports suggest Elisa was.

Someone here (forgive me--can't remember who) brought up an interesting point earlier: Many online reviews of the hotel complain about the water situation (weak water pressure, no hot water, etc.) months and even years before Elisa died. So why did this maintenance man suddenly go up to the roof this time? Because of the water's appearance/smell? Or did he go every time someone complained about the water?

ETA: Thanks, Borris. You read my mind.

 

[anansie]

Well many people have posited the possibility of a hotel staff member being the culprit. If the hotel water pressure has always been low, then it does seem strange that staff would suddenly think to check inside the tanks to "fix" the water pressure 19 days after Elisa disappeared.

 

[anansie]

I had been wondering why the maintenance worker would respond to complaints about low water pressure when the hotel was designed for low water pressure due to the tiny bathrooms. This thread shows that the cold water was actually blocked on some floors.

Its interesting that the guy on the thread (who says he stayed at the Cecil when Elisa Lam went missing) says

"Well as far as "gossip" from the hotel goes we kinda have this thought that it was a staff memeber. The thought was that the roof of the hotel was were staff memebers "partook" in drug use. We believe that next they see this attractive young girl invited her to take drugs with him/her or them then while the were all drug up and what not she decided to go for a swim and drowned in the water. A really good point to this story is that there are security cameras in every hallway meaning there must be more footage of Elisa after she was in the elevator which was never revealed."

So basically he says that there are cameras in every hallway of the hotel.

This contradicts quite a few other people's reports.

The few Chinese amateurs who went there on separate visits said they tried looking everywhere in the hallways of the 14th floor and couldn't find a single surveillance camera.

And in the Chinese news video Doruk posted on page 8 here

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8952957&postcount=188"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4[/ame]


Where they interviewed Andrew Smithson, the LAPD's PR spokesperson, he said on the news himself that he doesn't think there are any surveillance cameras outside the elevator on the 14th floor.

Could it be the guy on the thread is wrong about there being surveillance cameras in the hallway? Or could it be he was staying on a different floor and he was only speaking for the floor he stayed in, and he'd never been to the 14th floor so he didn't know there weren't any cameras outside the elevators there?? :waitasec:

 

[kingsway]

Haha... it could be a name.

But judging from the sort of people that loiter around Cecil Hotel - drug dealers and drug addicts most notably - I am inclined to think that "Fecto" has something to do with drugs. Like a "well-rolled joint"... LOL

Also look... beer bottles were found on the rooftop too.. so clearly whoever frequents there also likes drinking.

Drugs, alcohol and sex (which explains the "C***" word on the graffiti)... not very odd preoccupations for someone in that area anyways. And certainly very typical preoccupations for even multi-millionaire rockstars, rappers, musicians, etc.

But say, since Fecto can be a surname, I hope the LAPD has looked into people who are known to live or loiter in the area who have links to families with Fecto as a surname.

So who would be up on the roof drinking, and writing graffiti? Hotel guests? Hotel staff? or people who've snuck into the hotel? Are there regulars on the roof, or are these totally separate people?

Maybe some of these "regulars", stopped showing up after her disappearance. A change in pattern.

It would be interesting if you could plant a microphone and/or hidden camera on the rooftop to hear their conversations.

 

[dotr]

Okay found one news report that quotes the 3/4 full tank thing. Its from a Canadian source. I hope "The Star" is a legit newspaper RBBM
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2..._canadian_tourist_found_in_la_hotel_tank.html

"LAPD Sgt. Rudy Lopez called it suspicious and said a coroner’s investigation will determine Lam’s cause of death.... ... Lam’s body was found Tuesday morning at the bottom of one cistern that was about three-quarters full of water, Lopez said."

There are many other news channels saying the tank was 3/4 full :

http://www.examiner.com/article/elisa-lam-update-body-found-tank-decomposed-for-as-long-as-19-days

"Elisa Lam's body was found at the bottom of the one cistern that was about three-quarters full of water, according to Los Angeles Police Sgt. Rudy Lopez."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-where-missing-canadian-woman-was-found-dead/

"Lam's body was found Tuesday morning at the bottom of one cistern that was about three-quarters full of water, Lopez said."

If you Google "elisa lam three quarter" you'll find a load of reports from various news sources saying the same thing...

So I believe this "3/4 full tank" thing is official.

Toronto Star is a major newspaper with numerous awards, thanks for the links!
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/05/14/star_wins_three_national_newspaper_awards.html

 

[mjak]

This is a repost from elsewhere, hope that's ok. It's from a man who knew her growing up. Sad.

<modsnip>


http://www.reddit.com/r/depression/..._lam_found_dead_in_a_water_cistern_on_top_of/

Oh My reading this brought tears to me eyes. May Elisa Rest in piece.

mjak

 

[anansie]

So who would be up on the roof drinking, and writing graffiti? Hotel guests? Hotel staff? or people who've snuck into the hotel? Are there regulars on the roof, or are these totally separate people?

Maybe some of these "regulars", stopped showing up after her disappearance. A change in pattern.

It would be interesting if you could plant a microphone and/or hidden camera on the rooftop to hear their conversations.

In fact they should have planted cameras on the rooftop prior to this, then Elisa's death wouldn't be such a mystery.

If the management were decent, they should look into planting cameras on the roof now after a dead girl has been found there.

Seriously, the security at this hotel is a complete joke.

 

[Doruk]

IF Elisa were to have written the graffiti herself (which I think is extremely unlikely), she would have had to either: carry a spray can up the elevator in her pockets, found one on the 14th, 15th or roof lying around, or someone gave it to her.

She would need to know Spanish.

She would need to have no qualms about writing the word "C*nt".

If she was referring to herself, she would have been referring to herself in 3rd person.

She would need to have some sort of connection to 2012, even though it's 2013.

The spray paint can would need to be either clogged in the water pipes, potentially leaking dangerous chemicals, or lying around somewhere on the roof.

Most of all, she would need a reason. Has she written graffiti before? Why start now?

First, you don't need to know Spanish to copy someone else's graffiti.

Second, high schools in the US are required to take foreign language classes. I assume Canada too?

Third, it looks like chalk, not spray paint. In any case, things like these may have been left behind by other roof top users.

Finally, IF and only IF EL was as high as a kite and had written the graffiti on tank which resembles her handwriting, then it's not hard to imagine she might have copied the other graffiti, rearranging the words and putting a creative twist on it too.

 

[FiveFelines]

In fact they should have planted cameras on the rooftop prior to this, then Elisa's death wouldn't be such a mystery.

If the management were decent, they should look into planting cameras on the roof now after a dead girl has been found there.

Seriously, the security at this hotel is a complete joke.

Agreed. It's ironic how the new (as of 2008) owner seems to have wanted restore the hotel (he added "Stay" if I'm not mistaken), help gentrify the area, etc. In his responses to some of the many online complaints about the Cecil/Stay (pre-Elisa), he comes off as pretty defensive, like "that was the old Cecil; now it's under new ownership, etc."

But when you think about it, it appears that they just slapped a fresh coat of paint on the rooms, tried (unsuccessfully) to remove some of the long-term residents, and added Stay (which looks nice on the website but is still located within the Cecil). Did he increase security, add cameras, or do anything else to actually make the place safer? Not that I can tell.

 

[Doruk]

In fact they should have planted cameras on the rooftop prior to this, then Elisa's death wouldn't be such a mystery.

If the management were decent, they should look into planting cameras on the roof now after a dead girl has been found there.

Seriously, the security at this hotel is a complete joke.

I posit that the hotel employees who frequent the roof may have intentionally disengaged cameras on the 14th and 15th floor in order to avert notice of whatever illegal things they are engaged in, drugs, climbing out window, etc. But I don't think cameras were stalled on rooftops itself.

 

[littlegreycells31]

I think you could see a body in that. From what I have read, the water was black-ish, but not like a thick, black sludge. You could probably still see a body in there, especially if the person was nude, as reports suggest Elisa was.

Someone here (forgive me--can't remember who) brought up an interesting point earlier: Many online reviews of the hotel complain about the water situation (weak water pressure, no hot water, etc.) months and even years before Elisa died. So why did this maintenance man suddenly go up to the roof this time? Because of the water's appearance/smell? Or did he go every time someone complained about the water?

ETA: Thanks, Borris. You read my mind.

Yikes, if the water has been doing that for years i Hope they checked the other water tanks too. :what: