CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[kunibob]

Then please explain to me how last nite strangemercy posted a screenshot that showed the Hermit was reblogged from magri** on Feb 25 and another name of forest**enchantment underneath it.

(Note: strangemercy has since crossed out their original info and deleted the screenshot of the page)

No clue about that -- you'll have to ask strangemercy. :waitasec: But I checked the source when it was first posted, and just checked again now, and it's still December 31st.

Still not sure if I can post the link, but /archive/2012/12 after the magri** URL.

 

[No Joe Friday]

Houndstooth and Kaliste,

Yes, she might have been wearing her contacts, and yes, she might not even need glasses (I can't find anything proving that she actually needed to wear glasses, other than some pics of her wearing glasses), and if she did need glasses, I agree that it's strange that she's walking around without contacts or her glasses.

Yes, it's strange, but it's the only explanation. This is how she ended up on the 14th floor, this is how she didn't know which floor she was on, this is why she kept hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button, this is why she hit all the floors in the middle row, and this is how the killer was able to get her into the water-tank with little trouble.

She was practically blind.

Where are you getting that she was practically blind without glasses? How can you assert this as fact?

 

[No Joe Friday]

She likes well-dressed men. Further evidence she's a good girl.

Yes, obviously no woman who likes well-dressed men could ever get herself in a bad situation. Evidence!

 

[kunibob]

You're right, I just looked at the archive and it does date back to December 31st. I'm just wondering why on my dashboard (I have the Missing E plugin), it shows this. (Not sure if I'm allowed to link.)



Maybe it's an inconsistency in the Tumblr plugin? It's normally accurate though, so I can't say for sure about it, but crossed it out just to avoid misguidance.

Ahhh okay, I think the mystery is solved. The last update broke a bunch of missing e's functionality (I uninstalled it because of that). (I was pretty choked at how many of my plugins got broken by that last update, but this isn't the place to rant about that. )

 

[Conductor71]

I really don't know much about forensics. I'm trying to reconcile what you say with what he says, though. It seems a little different. Woudln't there be obvious differences in the lungs between a body of someone who drowned and one that was dead long before entering the water...

I'm not making any strong assertions here. I don't know enough to express an opinion about this. I'm just asking questions... Actually, I've decided to get some books on forensics to try to get a better understanding of what's going on here...

Actually from what I have read it is not always easy to determine whether the victim alive when body is found submerged in water. Even if she had been put inside alive, she would most likely sink and her lungs fill with water after two weeks. There is no official test that proved cause of death as drowning, but rather key signs that are present (or not). It is determined in the end by exclusion; hence, the toxicology report.

Key signs of drowning are a white or pink foam present around mouth/nose;
presence of vomitus in airway or in water; person found grasping something in desperate effort to pull themselves up to surface (like plant); eyes have a glistening quality...there are more but this is what stands out. Here is the source.

Bodies from Water- University of Dundee Dept. of Forensic Medicine.

Bessie made a great link to an FBI source earlier in this thread.

Personally, I think she was either dead or unconscious. The need for air is primal whether she was given a drug or not. If she was lucid enough to try and work the elevator; she would have been kicking and screaming in that tank. The scary thing is given the "warm and fuzzy" environment she may have just been doing that and ignored.

 

[Sillybilly]

and here on here, you're sillybilly and I'm bunnyhop........
just screen names. :floorlaugh:

okay funny bunny

Let's pretend my name IRL is Cedric Swartzkopf and I want to post anonymously on tumblr. I could use a nick that doesn't relate in any way to my real name (i.e. LaptopLouis) or a combination of over 600 potential two-letter, totally non-identifying combinations, other than CS. If you are trying to remain anonymous, why use anything that even comes close to your real initials. As far as we know, Elisa didn't go by Lisa, so I just find the choice of those two initials a bit intriguing.

Like i said, it is only a mild observation. Not really expecting any answers (although i will admit, yours was a good one).

 

[Socrates]

Actually from what I have read it is not always easy to determine whether the victim alive when body is found submerged in water. Even if she had been put inside alive, she would most likely sink and her lungs fill with water after two weeks. There is no official test that proved cause of death as drowning, but rather key signs that are present (or not). It is determined in the end by exclusion; hence, the toxicology report...

Bessie made a great link to an FBI source earlier in this thread.

Thanks to Borris and Conductor. It does sound rather more complicated in the Dundee link (which I just read) the Dr. Lee made it sound. Anyway, I'll think about this some more later, and read up on it, including the link from Bessie, which I somehow missed earlier.

I still have a lot of questions about it, including, crucially, what happened to her clothes? I think the coroner and the police must have a good deal more information relevant to this question than they are releasing as yet.

 

[Borris]

Yes, and the reporter just tossed in that one-liner with nothing to back it up. I'm much more inclined to go with a quote from LE than a reporter who didn't bother to substantiate their info or attribute it to an official source.

JMO

Whatever manner she was blogging - either cell phone or computer. As I stated, I have assumed she did not blog with her phone, but even the links you provide support that the LE have her cellphone.

My point is that she could have hit the depths of a bipolar depressive cycle and stayed in bed for 2 weeks. But even had she done this, her MO is to continue blogging through her dark periods, unless the item that she used to blog with was stolen.

 

[Sillybilly]

No clue about that -- you'll have to ask strangemercy. :waitasec: But I checked the source when it was first posted, and just checked again now, and it's still December 31st.

Still not sure if I can post the link, but /archive/2012/12 after the magri** URL.

Yes, I have seen it in the archives under Dec 31, but I saw the Hermit card screenshot with my own eyes when strangemercy posted it last nite with the Feb 25 date. Now there are no dates whatsoever on the nouveau page that shows the Hermit card. If something is simply being reblogged from another account by queuing, it can't change the settings on the nouveau account to reflect the date one minute and not the next. IMO, only someone with access to the account could change those settings to NOT reflect a date.

ETA: I now see that strangemercy was posting a pic of their own dashboard, not nouveau's. So is it the case that their dashboards can appear different according to unique settings within their own tumblr accounts?

strangemercy:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=14oc040&s=6

nouveau:

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/44129845296

 

[Borris]

This is a repost of Websleuths said to be written by her friend - that she was last seen wearing a purple shirt - what color is her shirt that's under the red hoodie in the video? I can't tell.

"ELISA Lam missing in #LA seen feb 1st AM purple tshirt and black shorts. No glasses."

 

[Sillybilly]

Whatever manner she was blogging - either cell phone or computer. As I stated, I have assumed she did not blog with her phone, but even the links you provide support that the LE have her cellphone.

My point is that she could have hit the depths of a bipolar depressive cycle and stayed in bed for 2 weeks. But even had she done this, her MO is to continue blogging through her dark periods, unless the item that she used to blog with was stolen.

Well, if she stayed in bed for 2 weeks, she didn't check out of the Cecil, and they didn't find her in her room, hunkered down under the sheets.

And no, LE didn't say they have her phone ... only that they wouldn't speak about it.

 

[Sillybilly]

@Borris ... i'm not disputing that they have her cell phone (i believe they probably do and hope that is the case). What i'm disputing is that you keep stating it as though it is an established fact when it can only be an assumption. LE didn't say "We have her cell phone".

Sorry, the longer one is around WS, the stickier one gets on detail.

 

[BunnyHop]

okay funny bunny

Let's pretend my name IRL is Cedric Swartzkopf and I want to post anonymously on tumblr. I could use a nick that doesn't relate in any way to my real name (i.e. LaptopLouis) or a combination of over 600 potential two-letter, totally non-identifying combinations, other than CS. If you are trying to remain anonymous, why use anything that even comes close to your real initials. As far as we know, Elisa didn't go by Lisa, so I just find the choice of those two initials a bit intriguing.

Like i said, it is only a mild observation. Not really expecting any answers (although i will admit, yours was a good one).

I agree SB. Glad I got a laugh out of you.
My point being that here on the interwebs, unless you are posting a real name... nics are just nics. Levity is good. JMHO. :seeya:

 

[zappy]

So what was the list and what symptoms were they treating?

Hello. I still have to read 2 6 pages of thread but I wanted to answer this as best as I could.

I have put the more recognized brand names of these pills in parentheses.

1) Venlafaxine (Effexor) 75 mg - she says it's the only depressant that has worked for her.

2) Venlafaxine (Effexor) 150 mg - see above

3) Bupropion (Wellbutrin) - *still researching this. She says her student plan doesn't cover it which leads me to believe she was taking the brand name. I'm trying to find pictures that match the one of hers. It's kinda hard because hers looks like a white oval that is shorter and I can only find "longer" white ovals. It could be the angle though. Also I am not sure if Canada's pills differ from the ones in the US. Another interesting thing is that the FDA recalled a certain Bupropion XL in late 2012 (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_131971.html) but, again, I am not sure if this effected Canadian generics, or if she was even on the generic. I can't even tell when that blog was written. I loathe Tumblr with a fiery passion. Anyway I think the Wellbutrin acts as a "boost" of sorts, to the antidepressant medication. At least that is how it was described to me when I was prescribed it, along with Prozac. She does not specify what this medication is for, so we can only guess.

4) Dexedrine spansule (which isn't the same thing as Adderall like she said, but whatever) - she says it is for ADHD/to help her concentration

5) Lamotrigine (Lamictal) - she says this is for her bipolar

I'll either edit this post or make a new one, if I figure out which Wellbutrin pill is pictured in that blog. Also i might try to figure out more specifics about the Dexedrine spansule and the Lamotrigine.

 

[Borris]

@Borris ... i'm not disputing that they have her cell phone (i believe they probably do and hope that is the case). What i'm disputing is that you keep stating it as though it is an established fact when it can only be an assumption. LE didn't say "We have her cell phone".

Sorry, the longer one is around WS, the stickier one gets on detail.

I appreciate that you're trying to keep us on track with what are known items and what are journalist rumors, even if the possession of her cellphone by the LE is something to have been reported by more than one news-source and in video as well as print. I think you can argue that what the LE says is fact, and what the news says is rumor, until it is verified by the LE - like my arguments with "nude", and "3/4 full" but it's missing the point of my posts which was to follow Xavier's line of reasoning to it's conclusion.

Xavier was trying to reconcile the date of her last sighting --- Feb 1, with the estimated time of death, or time entering the water tank -rumored to be Feb 14-16 by LE - Xavier wrote:

If LAPD believes ELisa time of death might've been Feb 14-16, then she was kept alive somewhere


If the LE is correct, and Feb 14-16 is the true time of death, then Xavier asks, 'what was happening with her within those two weeks?'

So I decided to build a scenario in which going off her meds through a hotel robbery could lead to suicide. In this scenario, we see her bizarre behavior as she retraced her steps to jog her memory and remember where she put her pills. Without meds, this could lead to a 2-week depression and suicide.

But then I realized that she would blog while she was very depressed, because this was the Hermit's link to the outside world. At the very least, she would tell her parents and request help - unless her cellphone and/or blogging device were also stolen.

LE states that they are treating this as robbery/murder, but at the same time report that they are in possession of her personal items, which may include a cellphone.

Whether they have the cellphone or not, isn't the point. Whether they have her computer or not isn't the point. It's whether she could have gone off her meds and lead herself willingly to the water tank. My question is if she would have "dried out" of her prescriptions willingly or unwillingly - did they get stolen or not.

If it was willingly, then the bizarre behavior has nothing to do with any robbery, but perhaps a mix behavior of some medications going "offline" and part of her bipolar issues taking over.

Do you know how 2 weeks or more without medication might affect her personality? Is it enough time to crash and burn so-to-speak?

 

[Borris]

Hello. I still have to read 2 6 pages of thread but I wanted to answer this as best as I could.

I have put the more recognized brand names of these pills in parentheses.

1) Venlafaxine (Effexor) 75 mg - she says it's the only depressant that has worked for her.

2) Venlafaxine (Effexor) 150 mg - see above

3) Bupropion (Wellbutrin) - *still researching this. She says her student plan doesn't cover it which leads me to believe she was taking the brand name. I'm trying to find pictures that match the one of hers. It's kinda hard because hers looks like a white oval that is shorter and I can only find "longer" white ovals. It could be the angle though. Also I am not sure if Canada's pills differ from the ones in the US. Another interesting thing is that the FDA recalled a certain Bupropion XL in late 2012 (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_131971.html) but, again, I am not sure if this effected Canadian generics, or if she was even on the generic. I can't even tell when that blog was written. I loathe Tumblr with a fiery passion. Anyway I think the Wellbutrin acts as a "boost" of sorts, to the antidepressant medication. At least that is how it was described to me when I was prescribed it, along with Prozac. She does not specify what this medication is for, so we can only guess.

4) Dexedrine spansule (which isn't the same thing as Adderall like she said, but whatever) - she says it is for ADHD/to help her concentration

5) Lamotrigine (Lamictal) - she says this is for her bipolar

I'll either edit this post or make a new one, if I figure out which Wellbutrin pill is pictured in that blog. Also i might try to figure out more specifics about the Dexedrine spansule and the Lamotrigine.

Hi Zappy,

Please continue your research and if you enjoy researching this, then please don't look at the top of page 30 in this thread, as I've already done the work. It would be good if we both arrive at the same conclusion and to reconcile any differences as that will increase the accuracy of the knowledge being shared. (I think I may have made a mistake, not familiar with pharmaceuticals.)

 

[Sillybilly]

Oh zappy ... i loathe tumblr along with you :toast:

from tumblr advanced post options:

http://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/advanced_post_options#backdate-can

How do I backdate posts?
1.Go to an existing post and click "edit."
2.Edit the date or time to something in the past.
3.Click "Save post."

 

[bobmeier]

I have been following pretty much every post here, but I seem to have missed the bit about the Investigators believing her body to have entered the Tank between February 14 and 16. Is there a source for this (and if so, how do they argue this) or is this just a theory? Thank you in advance.

 

[BLACKBRIT]

There have been a few thoughts expressed on this forum that she was alive when she went into the tank.

Assuming there was a perpetrator, and she didn't kill herself, I think this is a very unlikely scenario.

I have to believe that whoever put her in the tank knew about the tank before hand.

I really can't believe that someone killed her, scrambled around the hotel looking for a place to put the body, went up to the roof and "Excellent, I'll put the body in a water tank that I found by accident. That has a ladder, and a lid that isn't locked".

Someone who knew about the tank before the killing would also know that the roof was relatively easy to access, not just by them, but by staff testing the water, graffiti artists, young guys looking at the view and balancing on beams, drinking beer and generally hanging out.

I don't think Elisa was alive when she was put into the tank, even if she was unconscious, because the perpetrator would be concerned that she would make noise after he left and possibly alert other visitors to the roof. Nor would he wait until she was dead.That would take some explaining also.

I agree 100% with your assessment.

 

[necco]

okay funny bunny

Let's pretend my name IRL is Cedric Swartzkopf and I want to post anonymously on tumblr. I could use a nick that doesn't relate in any way to my real name (i.e. LaptopLouis) or a combination of over 600 potential two-letter, totally non-identifying combinations, other than CS. If you are trying to remain anonymous, why use anything that even comes close to your real initials. As far as we know, Elisa didn't go by Lisa, so I just find the choice of those two initials a bit intriguing.

Like i said, it is only a mild observation. Not really expecting any answers (although i will admit, yours was a good one).

My guess would be that LL are her Chinese initials. Most Chinese people I know, even if not born in China have both a Chinese and an "English" name. The other possibility is that the first L is a play on people calling her "El" short for "Elisa"

just a thought (or two)