CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[houndstooth]

Okay, now you're talking stage-right and stage-left. In that case, yes, she enters from stage right, and so does the suspect.

Unless I'm still confused.

What suspect?

 

[FutzBucket]

Hi all, new to here, been reading since thread 1, but have a hard time catching up every post since #3, so please pardon me for repeated comments.

And I sincerely hope my first post won't come across as party-crasher.

My points:

1) the cheekbone of the woman in the video seems much wider than EL's. Though it could be the effect of the camera angle.

2) purely a guess - from what I learned from her tumblr posts and accounts from people claimed to be her friends, I have a hard time matching my stereotype of her personality with the slouchy posture of the woman in the video. FWIW, my stereotype stems from my acquaintances with CBC friends during my years there (specifically CBC female of Cantonese descent, into literature and movies, with family running a restaurant... etc, believe or not, I met three in 10 years, LOL).

3) LE could have released the video by mistake or on purpose and silence on the family (or were they?) could all be explained.

I actually hope someone can help refute my observations and confirm it was indeed EL in the video, as we don't have much info to go with on this case. I recall someone (EL's friend?) here initially said it wasn't her, but the discussion was focused on the shoes style and died off (on that note: I also agreed the woman in the video was wearing flipflop, not heels).

It's becoming a common thought that this girl isn't Elisa, but I refuse to accept that belief, based upon how discrediting the identity of this person will destroy any ability to solve this case.

Yes, I choose to blindly accept what information the police are willing to give, because by not doing so will only discredit any possible and logical explanation.

I believe the reason why people are saying this, is because it's simply easier to think this is just some girl no one cares about. See, if you discredit her, then it's okay to laugh at her strange behavior.

Take the youtube comments for example. I post my concept and people send me negative messages telling me that I'm somehow hurting her family. For some reason though, it's perfectly fine to just say, "she's on drugs, lol".

People are going to discredit her. They are going to say she's on drugs, crazy, or even ghosts are involved. They are doing this, so they can laugh at her.

 

[houndstooth]

Hi all, new to here, been reading since thread 1, but have a hard time catching up every post since #3, so please pardon me for repeated comments.

And I sincerely hope my first post won't come across as party-crasher.

My points:

1) the cheekbone of the woman in the video seems much wider than EL's. Though it could be the effect of the camera angle.

2) purely a guess - from what I learned from her tumblr posts and accounts from people claimed to be her friends, I have a hard time matching my stereotype of her personality with the slouchy posture of the woman in the video. FWIW, my stereotype stems from my acquaintances with CBC friends during my years there (specifically CBC female of Cantonese descent, into literature and movies, with family running a restaurant... etc, believe or not, I met three in 10 years, LOL).

3) LE could have released the video by mistake or on purpose and silence on the family (or were they?) could all be explained.

I actually hope someone can help refute my observations and confirm it was indeed EL in the video, as we don't have much info to go with on this case. I recall someone (EL's friend?) here initially said it wasn't her, but the discussion was focused on the shoes style and died off (on that note: I also agreed the woman in the video was wearing flipflop, not heels).

Welcome.
You'll find agreement with me that the person shown in the video bears no particular resemblance to the photos shown of EL.
Length, shape, angles of the face seem totally off.

 

[FutzBucket]

What suspect?

Sorry, in my concept she's interacting with a suspect in the hallway. It's a concept I've been working on, and I've nothing to back it up, but speculative concepts to explain her behavior.

Still, I think it's a pretty solid concept, but others here really don't.

 

[FiveFelines]

Okay, now you're talking stage-right and stage-left. In that case, yes, she enters from stage right, and so does the suspect.

Unless I'm still confused.

But she arrives at and finally leaves the elevator from one side (R) yet directs most of her attention toward the other side (L) . If the "suspect" followed her from his room, he is presumably on the L but we never see he cross in front of the elevator.

 

[houndstooth]

Sorry, in my concept she's interacting with a suspect in the hallway. It's a concept I've been working on, and I've nothing to back it up, but speculative concepts to explain her behavior.

Still, I think it's a pretty solid concept, but others here really don't.

I was just saying the video gives no indication of her being "followed".
Or she would have focused her attention in the opposite direction than
what she does.

 

[FutzBucket]

But she arrives at and finally leaves the elevator from one side (R) yet directs most of her attention toward the other side (L) . If the "suspect" followed her from his room, he is presumably on the L but we never see he cross in front of the elevator.

Okay, I think I'm starting to understand your confusion, you mean this part at 1:59?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM&feature=player_detailpage#t=119s"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

 

[No Joe Friday]

Sorry, in my concept she's interacting with a suspect in the hallway. It's a concept I've been working on, and I've nothing to back it up, but speculative concepts to explain her behavior.

Still, I think it's a pretty solid concept, but others here really don't.

Reading the posts, I think the biggest problem most have here is not with your concept but with the way you present is as fact and shut down everyone else's ideas. You complain about people not buying into your concept, but I saw you reply to someone else's theory in thread #4 with a curt "Sorry, no."

Why should you expect any different?

 

[FiveFelines]

Okay, I think I'm starting to understand your confusion, you mean this part at 1:59?

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

Thanks. Yes. And also, if the "suspect" has a gun on her from the R, why would she walk toward him?

 

[FutzBucket]

Reading the posts, I think the biggest problem most have here is not with your concept but with the way you present is as fact and shut down everyone else's ideas. You complain about people not buying into your concept, but I saw you reply to someone else's theory in thread #4 with a curt "Sorry, no."

Why should you expect any different?

I believe I explained why it didn't work, and it was how it didn't work in my concept.

I understand I'm not the clearest guy in the world, what can I say, this is the first time I ever thought I had an idea that could potentially solve a murder. I don't normally do this sort of thing.

I'm truly sorry if I'm offending anyone.

And, yeah, I think I do have a clear picture of the situation, based upon my many years working in hotels. I've never been to the Cecil Hotel, but I know what kind of place it is.

It's the kind of place if you go knocking on the wrong door in the middle of the night, you'll probably end up dead.

 

[houndstooth]

What I am most confounded by at the moment is why the date/time stamp has been
effectively encrypted? By whom and for what possible motive?

 

[FutzBucket]

Thanks. Yes. And also, if the "suspect" has a gun on her from the R, why would she walk toward him?

I'm sorry, I must have not explained very well, the suspect is on the left with Elisa. She's looking to the right, because the suspect has then flipped her around, grabbed the back of her hair, and has a gun pointed to the back of her head.

Her arm movement is to trigger the sensor to keep the elevator door open, because Elisa is aware that the suspect has let go of the elevator button to grab her hair.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM&feature=player_detailpage#t=115s"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

As for walking to him, I believe it was a combination of her not believing this person would really kill her for going to the wrong door, and I believe her vision was impaired.

Yes, this is all speculation.

 

[houndstooth]

Hi all, new to here, been reading since thread 1, but have a hard time catching up every post since #3, so please pardon me for repeated comments.

And I sincerely hope my first post won't come across as party-crasher.

My points:

1) the cheekbone of the woman in the video seems much wider than EL's. Though it could be the effect of the camera angle.

2) purely a guess - from what I learned from her tumblr posts and accounts from people claimed to be her friends, I have a hard time matching my stereotype of her personality with the slouchy posture of the woman in the video. FWIW, my stereotype stems from my acquaintances with CBC friends during my years there (specifically CBC female of Cantonese descent, into literature and movies, with family running a restaurant... etc, believe or not, I met three in 10 years, LOL).

3) LE could have released the video by mistake or on purpose and silence on the family (or were they?) could all be explained.

I actually hope someone can help refute my observations and confirm it was indeed EL in the video, as we don't have much info to go with on this case. I recall someone (EL's friend?) here initially said it wasn't her, but the discussion was focused on the shoes style and died off (on that note: I also agreed the woman in the video was wearing flipflop, not heels).

I guess I didn't see that. Are you saying even a friend of hers said this wasn't her because of the shoes. The appear to me to be a type of backless mule or sandal. The sole/heel appears thicker than the average flip-flop.

 

[necco]

People are going to discredit her. They are going to say she's on drugs, crazy, or even ghosts are involved. They are doing this, so they can laugh at her.

Respectfully snipped.

Nowhere on here have I seen anyone using mental illness, drugs or ghosts to discredit her. We have debated whether her medication or mental illness could have triggered her behavior. We have wondered if she could be having a weird reaction to a street drug. And people have contemplated the possibility that from her cultural perspective, she could believe in spirits and whether or not she could have been interacting with a spirit, real or perceived.

I think it's extremely important to wonder whether something organic was happening with EL, whether it be a manic episode, a hypoglycemic event or something else. Mental illness is not a means which to discredit someone, it is a chemical glitch, the same way anaphylaxis or diabetes is. As such, people who have a chemical issue in their brain can be vulnerable to unexpected reactions to certain drugs, street or pharmaceutical. (for example, people with ADHD calm down when given stimulants, which spaz most people out.)

Many people of Chinese descent believe in ghosts. There are festivals dedicated to ghosts. There are rituals that keep the spirits fed and entertained. It is not important what others think of such religious/cultural beliefs. What is important for the purpose of analyzing the video is what Elisa believed. This is not to discredit her, but to understand her from a cultural anthropology perspective in case that has a part in her behavior. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosts_in_Chinese_culture"]Ghosts in Chinese culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[No Joe Friday]

And, yeah, I think I do have a clear picture of the situation, based upon my many years working in hotels. I've never been to the Cecil Hotel, but I know what kind of place it is.

It's the kind of place if you go knocking on the wrong door in the middle of the night, you'll probably end up dead.

That's just not true, or we'd have more deaths there over the long history of the hotel. It's a heck of an assumption, presented as a likelihood.

 

[houndstooth]

I'm sorry, I must have not explained very well, the suspect is on the left with Elisa. She's looking to the right, because the suspect has then flipped her around, grabbed the back of her hair, and has a gun pointed to the back of her head.

Her arm movement is to trigger the sensor to keep the elevator door open, because Elisa is aware that the suspect has let go of the elevator button to grab her hair.

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

As for walking to him, I believe it was a combination of her not believing this person would really kill her for going to the wrong door, and I believe her vision was impaired.

Yes, this is all speculation.

There was a video posted a week ago about an unusual room that a person got accidentally issued with a large convention. This was at an upstanding hotel. But, the room looked like it could have been set up for making snuff films in, or blackmail, or torture, with chains on the bed and a two-way mirror.
You would have nutted up for real over that video and been able to conjure up all sorts of scenarios about.

It might not be as uncommon as we think.
Btw, did or does the hotels you have worked at have such a room or two set aside for nefarious activities?

 

[FutzBucket]

That's just not true, or we'd have more deaths there over the long history of the hotel. It's a heck of an assumption, presented as a likelihood.

Yeah, security is usually pretty good, I bet, because the top floors are occupied by crazy people too poor to live in a hospital.

Yeah, I'm basing this on pure speculation, but man...a Hostel by Skid Row? Yeah, it's got some dangerous people living there.

Well, they're dangerous if you go up there in the middle of the night, because they'll think you must be there to hurt them.

In my concept, in the suspect's eyes, Elisa was just some street trash there to rob and/or hurt the suspect. Almost the whole thing was Elisa trying to convince the suspect that she's really just a sweet girl that made a simple mistake.

The suspect gives her 20-seconds to leave, and when she doesn't, the suspect believes this confirms that she's a threat.

I also believe the suspect is a paranoid schizophrenic, which explains his total knowledge and aversion to the camera, and why he doesn't just take her to the lobby.

He chooses the water-tank, because it was the only place he could think to hold her.

 

[tapu]

I played with the idea the police lied about her not having any outside trauma, but I really think they have nothing.

I don't know, man. When I explain it to people face-to-face, they can see what I'm seeing, but for some reason when I type it, nobody can see it.

It's not that I can't "see" what you're suggesting. I can picture the whole thing. The problem in taking it any further than that, for me, is that it is a story about a person that is not in the case, not in the video, not in any evidence that has been released, not... anywhere. And this imaginary person has extremely serious, clinical psychological problems, has a gun, is aggressive upon slight provocation, is so deluded as to run after Elisa Lam in response to perceived threat, gives specific timed instructions to her, has elaborate conversations with her, and then kills her or, fatally, "detains" her. So far, getting away with it.

I'm creative, too. I can make up just as complicated a tale with a completely different made-up character as long as I don't need any more evidence, back-up, or logical reasoning than your story does.

Do you not see that?

 

[paulhellion]

Not sure how to post links on here, but here we go...

http://tccoel.blogspot.com


The Curious Case of Elisa Lam

There is so much to do I don't even know where to begin! Lol.

The blog has great potential — personally, I'd just like these threads to not go into empty spirals of "hey guys where did we nail down that so-and-so is actually Elisa's tumblr?!".

And that got me thinking: what about making a wiki instead? We could save links, articles, photos, and pertinent quotes. Anybody could drop in and edit it. All theories, no matter how seemingly unlikely, could have a page discussing them too.

 

[FutzBucket]

It's not that I can't "see" what you're suggesting. I can picture the whole thing. The problem in taking it any further than that, for me, is that it is a story about a person that is not in the case, not in the video, not in any evidence that has been released, not... anywhere. And this imaginary person has extremely serious, clinical psychological problems, has a gun, is aggressive upon slight provocation, is so deluded as to run after Elisa Lam in response to perceived threat, gives specific timed instructions to her, has elaborate conversations with her, and then kills her or, fatally, "detains" her. So far, getting away with it.

I'm creative, too. I can make up just as complicated a tale with a completely different made-up character as long as I don't need any more evidence, back-up, or logical reasoning than your story does.

Do you not see that?

Oh, yeah, I don't think I'm 100% at all. I'm sure there are things I'm missing. For example, how the heck can I know he has a gun, or even if it's a he?

That's why I'm telling you people, because, frankly, you people are the only ones that will listen to me, and possibly use this information. I also assume the police are monitoring this, and I really hope they are.

What I did was I placed myself in her position, and I imagined another person and what this other person could do to make me behave like this. I did some research into Elisa, and I discovered she was a very sweet and compassionate person.

Heck, if I understand Elisa, the suspect didn't even need a gun. The suspect just needed to be old, and Elisa probably would've had so much compassion for the suspect, that she just kept having faith the suspect would let her go.