CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[noodled1]

To be honest I don't think why the water was slowed to a drip matters. Could her body have plugged up a water line, you bet, could some of her clothes clogged it up, you bet. Does it tell us what happened to her? probably not. I think we can safely assume that her body being in the cistern could have had a negative effect on water supply

I think worrying about the effects of her being in the tank had on the buildings water flow and quality are an after effect of her death and we're more concerned about the before part.

 

[AnotherCanuck]

Anyone have any questions for my friend's friend? Anyone at all? :dance:

 

[four_seasons]

EL's funeral is possibly on Mar 9th.

http://www.chinanews.com/hr/2013/03-04/4611383.shtml
http://www.dushi.ca/tor/news/bencandy.php/fid11/lgngbk/aid95777

according to Singtao daily Vancouver, EL's funeral is possibly on the 9th. EL's father would not comment.

English:

Elisa Lam may be buried on March 9, no comments from family

 

[AlphaWolf]

Anyone have any questions for my friend's friend? Anyone at all? :dance:

What does your friends instict say?....

 

[Conductor71]

Another thing that has me thinking that she met someone she liked (who was well-dressed, if we believe that is her blog) who perhaps convinced her to join him in some unplanned sightseeing in LA is the video. The assessment made by the body language "expert" struck me when he said she is showing emotional extremes. I am not sure of his credentials, but one thing he seemed to get right was her movements with her hands up in the air. No one grabbed he hair; she was playing with it. When a woman plays with her hair it is a sign of sexual attraction when in presence of that certain someone; the body language dude says this is "always" the case. I am not so sure based on that particular hair sweep up gesture, but it fits the rest of the video. IMO, the video shows (at least the beginning pre hand movements) that she is alternately relaxed and then anxious/fearful.

Her Holly Go Lightly entrance..I think she expected him to be right behind her getting on the elevator, so she was moving in a fluid, exaggerated playful way. She pushed the "door hold" button intentionally. When he doesn't appear, she becomes more closed off in her body movement. Yes she lopes out with that wide gait and hop skip back move but this could just be how she moves. I am looking at her arms they stay close by her side and the key thing for me is she backs up into the elevator; that says to me she was feeling uneasy- she does not want to turn her back. IMO, that is one of the most telling behaviors in the video. She likes this person, but is uneasy about liking him. I wish she would have followed her intuition.

When he does appear (from staircase?), she is again exaggerated and then we see the hair preening. Ultimately, she goes off with him.

I know most of you are played out with concepts and theories, but I just joined. Thanks for letting me blather on here anyway.

 

[findinganatta]

Oh, yeah, I don't think I'm 100% at all. I'm sure there are things I'm missing. For example, how the heck can I know he has a gun, or even if it's a he?

Snipped for space...

But using that logic, how can you know any of the things in your story?The details in your scenario are so incredibly specific given the data we have, and many details of the video are ignored or unaccounted for in your scenario. No offense, but working in hotel security doesn't give you anymore credibility that the rest of us in terms of this video and the scenario you've devised.
It's a very, very vague video, and the only people who might be able to decode what happened with above-average accuracy would be best experts in forensic investigation and the various experts they might employ, like FBI-level body language experts (not some guy with a blog, like that one guy that was linked... although his analysis was interesting and made good points, imo).

There is a good reason why skilled investigators approach cases with open minds and are always willing to go where the evidence--not their imaginations--lead them. Do they occasionally follow hunches? I think the idea of the 'hunch' is played up in Hollywood way more than it is actually employed in real life. When I've seen it employed in real-life murder cases (documentaries, shows like The First 48, etc), the hunch is usually not an extensive set of facts that pops into the investigator's head. It's usually a small detail--a person or a place, for instance--that they've been overlooking, or that they intuit based on a lot of data.

Anyway, I think it's best for the users of a forum like this to use the mentality of traditional investigation if they're going to make the most of their collective thoughts and ideas. Imagination is great, but it's pretty much just mental mast****tion in a new case with so few facts. Just my opinion I've found your posts interesting to read, but a little frustrating in their single-mindedness.

 

[Conductor71]

That's a really interesting thought.

Do we know for sure she was traveling by Amtrak though?

I am going by multiple news sources that report she traveled by Amtrak and public transportation.

 

[Xavier]

Looking at the timeline and something struck me that I have not seen addressed here or anywhere else. EL arrived in LA on Jan 26 but did not check into the Cecil until the 28th. Where did she sleep for 2 nights? Why did she switch over to the Cecil? Did she befriend someone on the train who convinced her to stay where he was staying? I am thinking more and more a lot of this hinges on why she changed her itinerary to detour in LA. I also think it no coincidence that she disappeared the night before she was scheduled to check out. Someone knew her itinerary.

The LAPD admittedly know very little hence the release of the video days before the discovery of her body and the tip line. The reason the police are finding so little info is that they should be interviewing Amtrak passengers. I am beginning to think that the perp persuaded her to change her plans and wanted her at the Cecil because he knew that the hotel staff would likely not notice she was missing for days.

Consider this too Conductor. Maybe EL met an Amtrak traveller staying at the Cecil and for 1-2 days stays with him on the 14th floor...maybe her 4th floor room had water issues and she didn't like it there...maybe his room was nicer, so she stays with him, but has her belongings in her room

IMHO Having become close in a short time, enough to spend time to know each other better, trust each other, in his hotel room, the perp would likely know her travel plans & check out time

So on Jan 31 her last night at the Cecil, they check out the rooftop for some romance..it goes too far, EL leaves, forgets her glasses and walks to the elevator trying to get to her 4th floor room...but her vision's impaired..

The perp she was hanging with meets her in the elevator hallway, convinces her with force to go to the rooftop again...she submits and now is dead

That's the best I can do..LOL...I wish we had just a little more to go on

any thoughts on this?

Good stuff Conductor

 

[Conductor71]

The timeline says she was in LA on Jan 26?

Because Elisa was in San Diego until Jan 28.

The timeline here says Jan 26 as does the one on Huff Post Canada along with the LA Times. Where did she sleep for 2 nights?!?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/02/20/elisa-lam-missing-found-dead_n_2727407.html#slide=2126610

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...-tourist-found-in-water-tank-at-la-hotel.html

 

[noodled1]

I am going by multiple news sources that report she traveled by Amtrak and public transportation.

I hadn't read that. can you supply some links?

 

[Conductor71]

Consider this too Conductor. Maybe EL met an Amtrak traveller staying at the Cecil and for 1-2 days stays with him on the 14th floor...maybe her 4th floor room had water issues and she didn't like it there...maybe his room was nicer, so she stays with him, but has her belongings in her room

IMHO Having become close in a short time, enough to spend time to know each other better, trust each other, in his hotel room, the perp would likely know her travel plans & check out time

any thoughts on this?

Good stuff Conductor

Thanks! I traveled alone a lot when I was Elisa's age and this whole case haunts me cause I was street savvy but really naive at the same time. If I met some cool, smart, cute guy on a train he could have easily swayed me to do the same IF I knew had my own room and he his. I am not sure about the room sharing.

This would also explain why she did not tell her family about her change in plans. If she bought a regional pass on Amtrak (you can link it up to Canada Rail) she could just hop on and off whenever she wanted to. There are no assigned seats or reservations required.

 

[Jan]

The hotel had no floor 13. Why is that? It goes from floor 12 to floor 14. There is no elevator button for floor 13 either.

 

[four_seasons]

The hotel had no floor 13. Why is that? It goes from floor 12 to floor 14. There is no elevator button for floor 13 either.

Isn't that a common thing? a lot of building don't have 13th floor because 13th isn't a good number.....

 

[AnotherCanuck]

Isn't that a common thing? a lot of building don't have 13th floor because 13th isn't a good number.....

Yup, very common. My office building doesn't have a 13. Which is so lame because...If you actually count them, there's a 15th floor. They just don't label it as such.

 

[noodled1]

Isn't that a common thing? a lot of building don't have 13th floor because 13th isn't a good number.....

Very common. Most buildings don't have a 13th floor

 

[Conductor71]

I hadn't read that. can you supply some links?

Sure thing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/02/08/bc-missing-elisa-lam.html

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/13/lapd-hoping-new-video-will-lead-to-missing-canadian-woman/

There are more...

 

[No Joe Friday]

Another thing that has me thinking that she met someone she liked (who was well-dressed, if we believe that is her blog)

This well-dressed thing again. Really?

 

[four_seasons]

Yup, very common. My office building doesn't have a 13. Which is so lame because...If you actually count them, there's a 15th floor. They just don't label it as such.

Ok...so i'm not crazy here. I didn't think not having the 13th floor will be a big problem....

 

[Conductor71]

This well-dressed thing again. Really?

Sorry, I was joking. I am not at all convinced that is her blog.

 

[namelesslurker]

Hi,

I'm new but have been reading through all 3 long thread devoted to Elisa Lam case. I might have some clue for those who are interested, I will just copy and paste a long post I just postd minutes ago instead of typing everything over. I find this tidbit invaluable for those who would like to solve this case.

------

After watching the elevator video countless times and reading through all 3 long threads devoted to Elisa Lam, I initially also thought in the video she was in an unconscious, possibly sleep walking or drug induced state of mind that led her to her death, either accidentally suicide or a victim of someone taking advantage of her unstable state.

What I finding interesting today is this very valuable tidbit info. from an online radio show that I used to listen too weekly. I was too occupied with catching up on Elisa Lam thread posts that I neglected listened to it for a week. So to speak, that radio program is based in Kong Kong, they were also very interested in Elisa Lam case. They mentioned there was an unknown tarrot card reader, that posted an message online on Feb. 17th that Elisa Lam was already dead and in the water tank, exactly 2 days before her body was found.

Below is what I will quote from an message that I sent today to an local DJ living in Los Angles,

Hi XX,

Just want to share this piece of info with you, food for thoughts. I just listened to this program online over the weekend, it's dating back to Friday Feb 22 HKT, it's a supernatural ghost encounter show. I was too preoccupied that week with Elisa Lam case so no time to catch up on that. However, they were also trying to find clue on that case and I just listened to the Feb 22 episode today where they asked two, tarrot master -one is an I-ching tarrot reader. Both of them have answer which might clue us in as to what might really happened to Elisa Lam.

If I don't mistaken, the autopsy report came out on Thursday Feb 21 PST, but in HK time that is Feb 22 maybe afternoon? So I find it interesting in their tarrot card reading, where both master saying an individual male that indirectly caused Elisa Lam to be killed, they said it's not an intentional homicide, so it's likely an indirect foul play/accident. And this killer is someone she's briefly met, maybe someone following her blog or someone she's newly met on her trip while she as in L.A. for an meetup. It's possible it's one of the Italian guy that's been stalking her since she's arrived in S. California on her trip. The biggest clue given was that, the killer already left the North and South America continent by Feb 22, that is why (if I'm not mistakenly there's a rumor that law enforcement has asked interpol for help on the case)... so it's likely someone who was traveling met Elisa Lam in the hotel or went by there for an meet up and fled after or before her body was found. That is a very significant clue, check out the names of the people that left the hotel area or left America at the time she was missing or found dead.

Sadly, the two also said the killer might never be catch, and that any clues to the case might take two month (exactly coincide close to the drug test result needing 4-6 weeks IIRC) while the other master said two season (which mean until the fall season). If you would like the link to the program for to hear yourself, I can give you the exact link for those who can understand the language in Cantonese.

Oh, and I forgot why they summoned the tarrot readers it's because they said on Feb 17, two days before Elisa Lam body was found, an unknown tarrot card reader, posted that she was already dead and near/in the water tanks, hence they summoned two different tarrot card readers for more clues on the case.

regards,

----end quote----

additional opinions:
I have an feeling EL thinking it's her last night in L.A. she might like to stay up on the roof to watch the sunrise before she leave the hotel and start packing for her next journey. It's pretty common for traveler to do that before they leave a place before they continue journey on to their next destination, at least commonly on travelogue T.V. episodes, so one might like to imitate.

-my ititial assessment was that she was drugged or sleep walking and someone took advantage of her or died due to overdoes. then my mind changed to possibly to suicide after overdoes on drug in an altered state of mind thinking she was in a game Left4Dead or Ryan Gosling song, "Buried in Water." But after hearing the radio program today and on her blog that she tells people not to suicide because of depression, and her famous quote "you're haunted by the idea you're wasting your life", this tells me it's almost contradicts her sayings.