CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[Godsdog]

Respectfully snipped for space and relevance



Thanks for this. One interesting part of your post that I haven't seen anyone mention here is that you were easily able to walk into the hotel, through the lobby, and into the elevator without any trouble at all. So much for that "no visitors" policy! I realize this was during the day, but I still think it's a great example of how easy it could be for someone to just walk right into the hotel off the street. Does that mean this person would kill a guest and hide the body in a water tank? Not necessarily. But who knows...

Thanks for commenting. I was really surprised myself to be able to wander into the hotel without so much as a comment from another person. It being so soon after the discovery of her body, I thought for sure there would be some kind of security.

 

[MesaVerde]

One issue though is how dark it is at the tanks in the dead of night? Anyone care to physically find out?

January 27th was a full moon so the 31st or so should have been relatively bright. Some people see better in the dark than others. I have found that blue eyed people generally see best in the dark but that near to a full moon, anybody should have been able to see fairly well at least things in their immediate vicinity.

 

[MesaVerde]

besides the most logical way for EL imo to get to the top of that tank is by herself.

What is your reasoning?

 

[AnotherCanuck]

From the looks of the Stay website...I would have stayed there. But I may have done more research into what kind of area it's in...But I have a lot more years of traveling in other countries alone than Elisa did...

 

[noodled1]

Thanks to four_seasons for the links

Thanks to both four_seasons for the articles and yourself for the dynamite translations

 

[Godsdog]

That was me Wasn't that the coolest tour? We learned so much about DTLA and it's sordid history.

Thanks again! It was really a fun tour and I thought the dynamic between the hosts was entertaining. :floorlaugh: I learned a lot about a lot of buildings I have wondered about in the past. The information was so abundant though that I wished we were given note sheets or that I had recorded the entire thing.

I worked on an episode of Lie to Me in one of those hotels, (I think it was called the King George? - the one with the TR inscription above the check-in desk). While we were there one of the employees took me down into the basement and showed me the bricked up entrance to a tunnel that used to run to another hotel. He said there used to be tunnels under much of downtown LA, commonly used for booze running during prohibition. He said that most of them were walled up but that a few remained.

I'm looking forward to some of their other tours, especially the West Adams one and the John Fante one.

 

[AnotherCanuck]

I'm coming back to the forum when the toxicology tests are out.

The cranial capacity on the forum seems to have deteriorated over the last few days.

I'm with you...There's too much speculation and grasping at straws. The toxicology report will either confirm or deny certain things, and there's no real point in arguing about all these things until we hear about it. :banghead:

 

[windbags]

I agree with you that a really crazy person is capable of any sort of craziness. But I don't see evidence that this girl was psychotic. I know you are not saying in this post that she is. But in case people are thinking along those lines.

I work in the mental health profession and Elisa's actions in the elevator, especially her hand motions, are exactly the type of behavior i witness schizophrenics and people suffering mental breakdowns to have. Thats what originally got me interested in the case, I am fairly positive she is suffering from some sort of psychological break with reality in the video.

People seem to have the opinion that a mental illness is somehow shameful, and its disrespectful to Elisa to consider her having one. Its not. The stigma around mental illness is a real problem in this country and it needs to stop. Its a disease that people develop due to no fault of their own. Having cancer or leukemia isn't shameful, neither should having a mental illness. People need treatment for their disease not to pretend it doesn't exist.

Another key factor, if Elisa did have latent schizophrenia, this is precisely the age when it first starts to manifest itself. Its a definite possibility and one that should not be ruled out just because people have an aversion to it.

 

[MesaVerde]

I work in the mental health profession and Elisa's actions in the elevator, especially her hand motions, are exactly the type of behavior i witness schizophrenics and people suffering mental breakdowns to have.

Well, we have to differ on this.

In my experience, her behavior is what I could easily see from somebody pretty frustrated with a piece of mechanical equipment. Maybe someone frustrated and slightly buzzed. I don't see that she had to be full out crazy or out of her mind drunk/high.

She could be sick in the head. But if I was investigating this, I would not assume that based on what people think somebody's hand motions and such mean in a short video without any other history of serious mental illness. I think it is a reckless assumption without any other proof.

 

[Joe Friday]

Not if nothing was tied directly to her. If she were wrapped in something or placed in something, there would be no need to have anything tied to her in a ligature type of way. In fact, I would find that to be a very stupid way to try to pull a dead body.

Do you think maybe she was placed in one of those big Rubber Maid trash cans and then that was hoisted to the top of the tanks or maybe even the roof using a rope?

 

[MesaVerde]

Do you think maybe she was placed in one of those big Rubber Maid trash cans and then that was hoisted to the top of the tanks or maybe even the roof using a rope?

I think that could be done. I don't know if someone would have access to one of those. But I could see one of those laying around in that trashy elevator service room on the roof level. If it was an employee, they would probably have access to one of those somewhere in the hotel. I don't know if the handle to one of those could take 115 pounds or not. I have broken one of those handles before--might have been a cheap trashcan, though.

I think she could easily be stuffed in a suitcase, too, and then a rope or something affixed to that. If it were me, I would rather have her in a suitcase or duffel bag.

 

[noodled1]

I wonder if that maintenance room on top of the hotel is for elevator service? it looks like it's in the right location and it certainly looks tall enough. If it is for this purpose then I can imagine the elevator being able to go all the way up to the roof in some type service mode.

If on the right track then getting her body up to the roof top isn't quite so difficult as we may be making it out to be.

We need to find out where exactly that elevator is in the floor plan

 

[AlphaWolf]

I posted some time ago how I had worked for a number of years as a labourer repairing the old heritage buildings in downtown Vancouver, many of which had ladders like the fire escape ladders on the Cecil Hotel. And yes, I worked on the Cecil Hotel in Vancouver, long before it was torn down.

I carried lots of heavy stuff up and down the vertical ladders. I was really strong then. I cycled, practised Judo, weight trained, and worked as a labourer. But it would have been a real strain for me to carry a 115 lb body up a vertical ladder. You would have to have very strong legs, back, shoulders, arms and hands.

And a second guy wouldn't any help. What would he do? Push on your from below? Pull you hair from above? You have to climb up the ladder at least 2/3 of the way before the second guy could possibly reach down and pull up the body.

Think about it. To carry a 115 lb body up a vertical ladder, you would sling it over your right shoulder. The body is then between you and the ladder, which restricts your ability to climb up the ladder, and the body would push you away from the ladder. Your right leg would keep hitting parts of the body, and you couldn't use you right side and hand much because you are balancing the body to keep it from sliding off your shoulder. So you would be pulling yourself up with your left hand and arm, and stepping up one wrung at a time. And grunting a lot.

Most people can't carry a body up a vertical ladder that has more than a few rungs. Been there.

Next idea is that he can pull the body up the ladder up with a rope.

What rope?

The rope that is kept in a hotel room to pull bodies up to the roof?

100% agree...

 

[Sillybilly]

Thank you. That is interesting. I can't find the current Facebook page. I can find a cache of it with very little on it. I wonder if it no longer exists. It would be good to see what the page said directly about her glasses. Do we know that the page belonged to people in the know and not just some random person?

Her sister's Twitter describes what Elisa was wearing when last seen, and her very next tweet says "no glasses".

FWIW, her sister also says Elisa was last seen the morning of Feb 1

 

[four_seasons]

I wonder if that maintenance room on top of the hotel is for elevator service? it looks like it's in the right location and it certainly looks tall enough. If it is for this purpose then I can imagine the elevator being able to go all the way up to the roof in some type service mode.

If on the right track then getting her body up to the roof top isn't quite so difficult as we may be making it out to be.

We need to find out where exactly that elevator is in the floor plan

see this chinese post: http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-101.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5]

There's a picture of the opened elevator service room. and the following description: 　　3，图片和电视中的顶楼中间的房子，是电梯设备间，分上下两层。上部分门锁住，里面机器轰鸣，是机械房。下部分门没锁，里面黑暗无灯，有大型通风管道，地上有黑色大塑料袋，若干垃圾。

(translation: the one in the middle of the roof is the elevator service room. it's split into 2 levels. the top level is locked and there's loud machinery inside and is the mechanical room. the bottom is not locked, there's no light but has large ventilation system as well as large black garbage bag and a bunch of garbage.)

 

[MesaVerde]

I wonder if that maintenance room on top of the hotel is for elevator service? it looks like it's in the right location and it certainly looks tall enough. If it is for this purpose then I can imagine the elevator being able to go all the way up to the roof in some type service mode.

If on the right track then getting her body up to the roof top isn't quite so difficult as we may be making it out to be.

That is an interesting idea. I saw a video made by people investigating the hotel after her death. They filmed that lower level of that maintenance room with the door open. It seemed full of trash . But maybe the elevator could open at the side where you can't see it. I wonder.

 

[four_seasons]

That is an interesting idea. I saw a video made by people investigating the hotel after her death. They filmed that lower level of that maintenance room with the door open. It seemed full of trash . But maybe the elevator could open at the side where you can't see it. I wonder.

I've looked at the floor plan, and there are only 2 elevators. The buttons inside the elevator doesn't have one that goes to the roof and they didn't report seeing the elevator in there. Is there a way for the elevator to go to the roof without pressing any buttons?

 

[noodled1]

see this chinese post: http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-101.shtml#ty_vip_look[VB%E8%B0%83%E6%9F%A5]

There's a picture of the opened elevator service room. and the following description: 　　3，图片和电视中的顶楼中间的房子，是电梯设备间，分上下两层。上部分门锁住，里面机器轰鸣，是机械房。下部分门没锁，里面黑暗无灯，有大型通风管道，地上有黑色大塑料袋，若干垃圾。

(translation: the one in the middle of the roof is the elevator service room. it's split into 2 levels. the top level is locked and there's loud machinery inside and is the mechanical room. the bottom is not locked, there's no light but has large ventilation system as well as large black garbage bag and a bunch of garbage.)

So from the description if I'm understanding it correctly the red doors lead to the elevator room, with the sounds of machinery being described I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a likely chance the elevator went all the way up to the roof top.

I'd like to know what the layout of the lobby is, when you come in from the street where are the elevators located and more importantly which way are they facing. need more pics! lol

 

[MesaVerde]

Her sister's Twitter describes what Elisa was wearing when last seen, and her very next tweet says "no glasses".

FWIW, her sister also says Elisa was last seen the morning of Feb 1

Thanks, I found it. It seems that she is giving a description of what her sister was wearing. No glasses might just mean that her sister had switched to contacts. Hard to say what the significance could be. If she needed glasses or contacts to see and didn't have them with her, I don't know how she could function at all.

 

[noodled1]

I've looked at the floor plan, and there are only 2 elevators. The buttons inside the elevator doesn't have one that goes to the roof and they didn't report seeing the elevator in there. Is there a way for the elevator to go to the roof without pressing any buttons?

I think for this line of thought while we play it out we can make a leap of faith and say if that is an elevator service room on top then there is a way to get the elevator up there. once we conclude it is in fact a service room we can step back and start breaking down the details