Recovered/Located CA - Cecil Knutson (dec'd), Dianna Bedwell (inj'd), Valley Ctr, 10 May 2015

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  • #81
This is actually at the Deer Springs light at N. Centre City, where they'd have had to turn left to get on 15 NB.

It's also where they'd have had to turn in order to go to the Arco / AM/PM had they seen it exiting or even just seen it heading to go on the freeway.

It shows how easy it is to see the freeway and how hard it would be to accidentally miss it.

The freeway sign is RIGHT there as you turn left for that brief jog on Deer Springs - and it's very clear.

You can even seen it in the SC just beyond the east side little Park & Ride right there.

And if you look just right (looking at it) of the green freeway entrance sign there, in the distance you can see that you can even see the Arco / AM/PM from there, so it's clear you'd know it wasn't far had you noticed it exiting or known you wanted another "pit stop" before getting on the freeway there.

This shows just after they'd have turned left onto Deer Springs to get on 15 NB.

As you can see, the freeway sign is very visible there. And there's the dedicated turn lane to enter the freeway.

17577031145_f78cfdff56_b.jpg


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  • #82
watcher9 said:
I was confused about Deer Springs Road too. It was going out west from I-15.

You are so smart to make all those little symbols and then be able to bring a map into the thread. I still can't do one but I can tell you the way the route looks on my computer using regular Google maps, not earth. I hope you can follow me.

Plugging in the casino and the LaQuinta destination, Google shows two different routes - one goes by interstate and the other one goes the back way, apparently through the mountains. Using the interstate one, the route from the casino is going Lilac Rd and then Old Castle Rd until it dead ends at N Old Hwy 395. Take a rt on N Old Hwy 395 and then left on Gopher Canyon Rd to get to I-15. That I am assuming is their normal route. This looks to be an I-15 interchange north of where you marked your I-15 interchange.

If you would look up or north on 395 just a block or two, you can see the Deep Springs Fire Protection District HQ on the rt. So maybe this interchange is considered part of the Deep Springs community.

Now, if you were to turn down or south on 395 which parallels I-15, the road name changes to Champagne Blvd. You can follow that road all the way down to the Deep Springs Rd we found on the map. I believe that the 395-Champagne Blvd used to be part of the old Deep Springs Rd, maybe before the interstate came and a lot of people may still call it that.
Click to expand...


If you do Lake Wolford Road, which is what the media has been saying they did, it'd be the turquoise route to Deer Springs Road - but there are many variations between the end of Lake Wolford Rd and actually getting to Deer Springs.

Like I said in another post, MOST people I know would NOT go the route on Old Castle b/c it's windier, narrower, and there tend to be issues because it's sort of a more local road and more something locals use.

I personally would also have done Lake Wolford - it's a bigger road through most of it, plus if they're known to make bathroom stops frequently (per their kids) it puts you on a route with many more stop options even just the bit to the freeway.

Also, I think if you put in "Deer Springs Road, San Marcos, CA" as the destination, vs. actually putting it as the freeway entrance, you get the route option of Lake Wolford - or at least that's what I got actually mapping to the 15 that way.

But as I've actually driven it, maybe it shows up that way from the one time I did map it? Now I just drive it.


17391606389_123b962105_b.jpg
 
  • #83
steelman said:
Anybody local there, keep trying to piece together the route they may have taken from what bits and pieces of clues we have. Above are areas mentioned in the MSM


BTW-- Cecil Knutson's daughter is leaving comments at the link below:

Scroll to the bottom of the article to view: user name is Kris TAL K

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...n-Dianna-Bedwell-303304871.html#ixzz3ZrK7UJkQ

Apparently she lives in Florida
Click to expand...

Coachella Valley is basically La Quinta (the destination) - and Valley Center is where Valley View Casino is.

So basically they said they've been searching all the area between that. Which unfortunately doesn't narrow it down anymore. :(

The most helpful was what KNSD was first reporting live last night at 11 pm which gave the specific roads of the initial pings.

That's where they showed the exact exit they left out of, the turns on Lake Wolford, and all of that based on the pings.

Like I said, the unfortunate thing is they didn't specific the route from the end of Lake Wolford TO Deer Springs (which there are MANY options of, like you and I have both said already :sheesh:)

But in some ways, I wonder how important that part is, and if it's not more relevant the span just before and after Deer Springs?

Because we know they got close enough to ping at Deer Springs, so it seems like they can't be somewhere much between Lake Wolford and Deer Springs, except the last bit.

No? :waitasec:
 
  • #84
steelman said:
All I know is this, after looking at the map, there are about 20 different routes they could have traveled to make it over to the I-15 entrance ramp . If they were out putzing around and taking an afternoon drive....better make it 50.

It's no wonder they can't find them. I still say they are within a mile or two of the last phone ping, which apparently was close to the I-15 on-ramp. I assume they were going to head north, but who knows.
Click to expand...

If they are apparently known to be punctual, they were already almost certainly going to be late leaving at just before 2!

ESPECIALLY given what the kids have said about frequent bathroom breaks needing to factor in.

In fact, even if they went the back way (which ALL indications ping-wise show they DID NOT do) it'd have been 2 hours 10 minutes. Get behind a slow car and it could be WELL, WELL over that b/c there are not many places you can pass...and he also doesn't seem like he'd have been an aggressive driver on some tight turns with drop offs.

Had they taken 15, ultimately over to 10 (presumably by way of 215 to 60) which seems to be the intention given the pings at Deer Springs and 15, it'd have taken them more like 2 1/2 hours - though with freeway speeds it could easily be a whole lot quicker depending on where in La Quinta.

I actually do the drive from Escondido (just south of Valley View, really - a few exits further south on the 15) to La Quinta a few times a year personally for a work thing out there, and it is usually about 2 hours, sometimes with a quick stop for a drink...

Factoring in me leaving from closer to the freeway but further south, and them leaving from further north but inland more, it should be pretty close.

All the to say, it makes me wonder if that means dawdling / putzing around, or even stops would be less likely given the VERY tight timelime since we have the known departure time? :dunno:
 
  • #85
KNSD 7/39's 5 pm broadcast:

Showing the freeway places and roads (similar to what I just showed in SC's) showing freeway signs / street names.

Rory Devine at Sheriff station near Valley View saying family has been coming in and out and how rough it has been.

Homicide involved, as is routine in missing person cases, but does NOT mean that they think they are dead, but are leaving no stone unturned.

Tough pill to swallow b/c of word, but they are grateful (per daughter Debbie Apple) b/c their (homicide dept) resources far exceed what there would be otherwise.

Family putting up signs/flyers in gas stations/stores/anywhere there could be foot traffic.

Hoping someone saw Dianne and Cecil also known as Paul (replayed it - they did say Paul)

Left just before 2, were supposed to be there by 4 in La Quinta, did they get in an accident? Something sinister happen? Family not giving up or giving up hope.

Daughter Debbie says someone knows something and they need answers.

So far no word, not any clue.

Even as (SDSO's) Astrea searches by air for the car, nothing.

Showing couple's home in Fullerton to see if there are clues in financial records, if the CC had been used or something. So far nothing that they (family at least) know of - not even a bad clue.

Child in FL set up the 🤬🤬🤬 account for a reward hoping someone might come forward.
 
  • #86
  • #87
  • #88
OK< so they have clear surveillance. So it does not appear they were followed by a car jacker or robber.

I guess they might have driven off the road somewhere and the car is not visible?
 
  • #89
A few other pics just to show some things:

You can see if you head NB on N. Centre City as they'd almost certainly had to do if the pings showing they left via Lake Wolford Road would have meant they ended up on in order to get to Deer Springs, there's a sign clearly showing before the intersection that it is Deer Springs toward the west right there.

(Sorry I'm not great with Mr. Google Man - I've been protesting the new Google Maps b/c it only lets me have two tabs open or it restarts the browser ever.single.time! But Bing isn't as good for doing this! - But it is clear driving IRL, I was just trying to also keep the light / freeway more visible for those of you who aren't familiar with the area)

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I'd also think checking this other (east side of 15) farmstand where they have fresh local strawberries and flowers also being sold.

They'd have virtually hit it coming up N. Centre City Parkway to turn onto Deer Springs as it's at the intersection right by the east side Park & Ride.

Again, worth seeing if they can find out who was manning it as it'd have been another quick and easy spot they could have turned into/through if they missed the light at Deer Springs somehow and continued onto Champagne Blvd (the one that continues parallel to the freeway) and were turning around to go back to the freeway, or a quick stop if they wanted to bring something fresh to family on their way - all without taking but a moment or two.

16958337173_b48ac85e45_b.jpg


It wouldn't take but a moment to see if they (or LE) could contact those working Sunday to ask specifically and not just maybe leave a flyer, etc.

Had they indeed not turned onto Deer Springs and accidentally (or intentionally - perhaps intending to go up to Gopher Canyon entrance for some reason - or the back way at Old Castle to Valley View) as you can see, much of the way on Champagne you can clearly see you're running parallel to the freeway.

17579988025_7b615774bc_b.jpg


There are some areas where Champagne is much lower and out of view, but much of it it's very clear, and even when you can't actually see the freeway itself, you can still tell it's running right there, you're just lower down.

Much of the way along Champagne / Old 395 the east side is pretty parallel to the ground, at least close to the edge of the road, in some places there's some bushier scrub / chaparral / etc.

Then there are a few places like this where you are lower than the freeway (but again you can still see it's up there looking toward the curve further in the distance) and then there's more of a drop off in elevation on the east side of Champagne (the side they'd have been on had they been driving north beyond Deer Springs)

Enough so that at some curves and points there are guard rails.

16958332223_ee0f99bfdc_b.jpg
 
  • #90
  • #91
And if somehow they continued NB on N. Centre City, past Deer Springs / 15 freeway entrance, onto Champagne Blvd toward old 395, the back way to Valley View at Old Castle, or the further north Gopher Canyon on ramp to the 15 here's some photos of what they'd have hit beyond those couple I posted after the farmstand w/ strawberries and flowers, assuming if they missed Deer Springs (intentionally or not - or if they for some reason wanted to go back to Valley View if they'd forgotten something) and if they did NOT turn back toward Deer Springs.

Much of this area is filled with places with SPOTTY cell coverage (so it could be possible, from my own experiences, including at Lawrence Welk Resort w/ no coverage, which is NOT as low as Champagne is in many parts and not blocked/covered with things, obviously, either) that could mean his phone could have last pinged at Deer Springs, but they actually could have gotten further north.

Had they missed Deer Springs (intentionally or not) and continued north, realizing they were almost DIRECTLY parallel to 15 the whole way, assuming they could get on further north but not being sure, one of the only places you could get confused and try is just past Lawrence Welk Resort at this intersection:

17554022786_7e75a534f3_b.jpg


It could look like you could turn and get on the freeway just like at Deer Springs, but there is NO light and NO signage for that direction as it's a private road.

So while you could inadvertently turn hoping to get on the freeway, you'd immediately see the "No Freeway Access" and "No Outlet" signs:

16960042063_e3334c22b6_b.jpg


Had they continued north, the only REAL intersection they'd have hit next from Deer Springs is the light at Old Castle. That is the OTHER way up to Valley View (but not the one indicated they used by their pings - and the one that is more desolate and less used by non-locals)

16957812734_8ed64e444e_b.jpg


If they HAD gone back to Valley View (forgetting something or whatever) after hitting Deer Springs, they could have turned here.

This is the view if you had come from VV that way. Left onto Champagne would be heading south toward Deer Springs Road.
17392909670_464256e3a8_b.jpg


Right would be north onto Champagne as it prepares to turn into Old Highway 395, but more importantly, where it is VERY closer to the Gopher Springs freeway entrance - the next entrance they could have used to get onto 15 if they missed Deer Springs.

This is the light from Champagne onto Gopher Canyon - where similarly to Deer Springs, you have to make a left turn for then the quick 15 NB on ramp. Again, there's clearly freeway signs, etc.

17578178242_324730fa23_b.jpg


I think it'd be nearly impossible they could have gotten anywhere near that far without another phone ping beyond Deer Springs, even with many dead zones or very spotty areas, but I do think the bit between Deer Springs and about Old Castle is very possible (especially depending on their carrier - and it's likely to have been even worse if their phones are older) and worth checking well.
 
  • #92
Very scary. I don't suspect foul play in this case. The roads are so bad in that area, I think they've had an accident. :-(
 
  • #93
TravelingBug said:
Coachella Valley is basically La Quinta (the destination) - and Valley Center is where Valley View Casino is.

So basically they said they've been searching all the area between that. Which unfortunately doesn't narrow it down anymore. :(

The most helpful was what KNSD was first reporting live last night at 11 pm which gave the specific roads of the initial pings.

That's where they showed the exact exit they left out of, the turns on Lake Wolford, and all of that based on the pings.

Like I said, the unfortunate thing is they didn't specific the route from the end of Lake Wolford TO Deer Springs (which there are MANY options of, like you and I have both said already :sheesh:)

But in some ways, I wonder how important that part is, and if it's not more relevant the span just before and after Deer Springs?

Because we know they got close enough to ping at Deer Springs, so it seems like they can't be somewhere much between Lake Wolford and Deer Springs, except the last bit.

No? :waitasec:
Click to expand...

So basically they are searching in the opposite direction from where the phone pinged last ? Uh-huh..........LE conducted search.

Citizens of that area, get out and search...........they were in an accident near I-15 and Deer Springs road. It's up to you now.
 
  • #94
Ok, I just reread last night's post when I was writing from what KNSD said because I was irritated about the vagueness of how they got from Lake Wolford Road to the last ping in the area of Deer Springs.

Thinking about it rereading that he said NB onto Lake Wolford to where it ends (going NB that's technically onto Valley Center Rd) and not just to where Lake Wolford Road ends they COULD have theoretically also taken Lilac to Old Castle from there.

It is a light there where you'd have to turn, and it is the more local road that's narrower, more desolate really, etc.

16959862874_dd049d5e0e_b.jpg


And you have to make a conscious turn that way instead of staying on the bigger Valley Center Road that continues, is where Lake Wolford Rd SB from the casino would join in, and then becomes Valley and then would let you take El Norte or any of the many choices over to N. Centre City to get to Deer Springs.

Without them saying how they went from Lake Wolford to Deer Springs, it really could be MANY ways if they actually took Lilac, as well.

But it makes NO sense why they would have gone down to Deer Springs if they had actually taken Lilac to Old Castle, as it was much further south than Gopher Canyon, right was almost right there, not much beyond that light from Old Castle onto Champagne.

With them saying it pinged near the Deer Springs / 15 ramp, had they actually gone Lilac / Old Castle they'd had to have consciously gone the wrong direction (SB) from where they were headed (NB) quite a distance the wrong way.

So that still seems highly unlikely to me UNLESS it's a matter of a strange ping when they did get reception if they had taken Lilac to Old Castle and somehow it didn't get anything closer than the Deer Springs ramp. I find that odd having to be that far north and not just along Champagne further south, but again, I can't see how they'd make that big of a goof going south from Lilac / Old Castle if they had taken that, instead of going north to Gopher Canyon right there. :dunno:

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At that intersection you can literally SEE the Gopher Canyon light / entrance that's .2 away - and obviously that the freeway is RIGHT there - whereas to go down to Deer Springs you'd go 4.2 miles.

But if they don't have an intermediary ping (or perhaps they've just not said the specific route after they hit the end of Lake Wolford on the NB side instead) then it means there are MANY other options they really need to look at to clear.

Because you can also miss Old Castle from Lilac and end way the heck up on Lilac where it gets even further out by the campground and over toward Circle R or Lilac itself, which would really have had them in a mess potentially. Several things COULD get them back down toward Champagne / Old Highway 395 where they could have then gone toward Deer Springs, but...

The timing of the ping in Deer Springs would be REALLY telling to see if they got turnaround in between or what not.

But that leeway between only Lake Wolford Road and Deer Springs, realizing they went NB initially really is a huge can of worms of other possibilities :scared: most of which don't fit with how they would have then been by Deer Springs if they had taken any of the more northerly options (like via Lilac or Old Castle somehow) versus continuing on down Valley Center Road after turning off Lake Wolford and passing where you'd meet up at the south end of Lake Wolford where it ends there like I was thinking he had meant.

I still don't see how you could end up at Deer Springs if they had done Lilac / Old Castle without somehow getting turned around.

I WISH they would clarify if there were any pings post-Lake Wolford Road prior to Deer Springs.

And if there aren't any, then there are A LOT of routes that would have to be well cleared in addition to make those two pings fit, and the timing of the pings would also be important.
 
  • #95
And I'd love to know why Valley View?

Had they been there before? Or was it a particular deal?

Because among others, Pala and Pechanga would both of have been less out of the way - both accessible from the 15 but further north - and also both could take you the back route to La Quinta (though that doesn't seem to have at all been on the radar)

If Valley View has been somewhere they'd been before, getting lost or turned around explaining weird pings w/ Lake Wolford and Deer Springs seems even less unlikely, and seems like either something is missing route/ping wise, and also makes it seem even more likely to me it'd be a crash.

Here's the overhead of the .2 from Old Castle (had they taken Lilac instead) to Gopher Canyon

17582499331_c0cdf78a24_b.jpg


vs. the 4.2 miles to the Deer Springs ramp heading SB (if they actually took Lilac / Old Castle)

17580252042_0b9963e328_b.jpg
 
  • #96
steelman said:
So basically they are searching in the opposite direction from where the phone pinged last ? Uh-huh..........LE conducted search.

Citizens of that area, get out and search...........they were in an accident near I-15 and Deer Springs road. It's up to you now.
Click to expand...

I think they really just mean they are searching the entire stretch out there in case somehow (I guess) both phones were turned off AND the car tracker? :dunno:

I guess meaning I think they're trying to also make sure they didn't go off the road somewhere else if they had gotten closer to their destination (and I'm assuming also checking the back way through the mountains, as well) or somehow take an entirely different route DESPITE there being no indications they got anywhere near that far?

Local news seems to be indicating the family is spending their time in the local area near the last pings doing their driving around and putting up flyers, etc. And that's the Sheriff station they're working from it appears, also.

So I think the other just meant they're checking the distance if some fluke thing happened with the phones and the car tracking, but they don't really think that's the case.

And I'm guessing that all may have happened before they GOT all the pings OR found out the car tracker wasn't adding any info. :shrug:
 
  • #97
katydid23 said:
ok< so they have clear surveillance. So it does not appear they were followed by a car jacker or robber.

I guess they might have driven off the road somewhere and the car is not visible?
Click to expand...

..yes...
 
  • #98
GigTu said:
This is awful. I feel so bad for the family.

Just my two cents, this sounds like a car accident to me. If there was no breaking or swerving and they just "drove off the road", it would be very hard to detect a trace of that while driving down the road. And if there are trees and the car is upside down, it will be tough to spot from the air.

I hate to say it, but they need to get some dogs out there and stop every 50' for at least a 1/4 mile radius from the last ping.
Click to expand...
I just feel like saying this again...
 
  • #99
"San Diego County Sheriff&#8217;s Department May 12, 2015 Page 2"

"At this time, any surveillance video that has captured the couple leaving the casino will not be released to the public."

"A parallel investigation is ongoing and specific details cannot be discussed at this time."

This is from the Press Release, under Update:Missing Couple-Valley Center
http://apps.sdsheriff.net/press/default.aspx
 
  • #100
Treelights said:
"San Diego County Sheriff&#8217;s Department May 12, 2015 Page 2"

"At this time, any surveillance video that has captured the couple leaving the casino will not be released to the public."

"A parallel investigation is ongoing and specific details cannot be discussed at this time."

This is from the Press Release, under Update:Missing Couple-Valley Center
http://apps.sdsheriff.net/press/default.aspx
Click to expand...
Oh crap. I don't like the sound of that. That sounds like a 3rd party is involved, and they don't think it was an accident. :(
 
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