Recovered/Located CA - Cecil Knutson (dec'd), Dianna Bedwell (inj'd), Valley Ctr, 10 May 2015

[Teche]

Are you wondering when the son or family left his house?
IMOO.

Yes. Did the parents make it to the neighborhood and what are the coming and goings of the family?

 

[Treelights]

Yes. Did the parents make it to the neighborhood and what are the coming and goings of the family?

"He said when they didn’t show up by 4:30 p.m., he started dialing both their cellphones repeatedly, but no one answered."

"By 5 p.m., Acosta said he knew something was wrong, so he headed to Valley View and drove throughout the surrounding area all night, looking for any trace of their vehicle."

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...n-Dianna-Bedwell-303304871.html#ixzz3a4o6s6Of

Now, this is what was reported. Hopefully, he was truthful.
I guess, the son would be on some video cameras at some point somewhere.
IMOO.

 

[GigTu]

The son is a victim here. I thought in an early article he was quoted and it was mentioned that he with others at his home, 2 1/2 hours away.

 

[watcher9]

Since it looks like they went in a different direction, this question may not matter.
I noticed a big lake on the map right next to N Wohliford Lake Rd and wondered if in real life it is close enough for a car to veer off the road into the lake?

 

[Psychedelia]

Thing is, if the husband had a medical emergency, Dianna could have gotten help somehow, even if they had to pull over on the road.

Seems like helicopters are the best idea for now - I'd love to know how much area's been covered. It doesn't seem like there's too far they could've gone if they had a sudden accident, or even if they did decide to pull off someplace and commit suicide. BUT, what if that's all wrong and they did decide to take a longer trip? Seems like that'd be very unusual for them, but it's possible. I don't know, it just seems like such a higher visibility area than say, the two women who recently got stuck in Michigan (and were found safe!). I can't believe they haven't been found yet.

 

[TravelingBug]

Since it looks like they went in a different direction, this question may not matter.
I noticed a big lake on the map right next to N Wohliford Lake Rd and wondered if in real life it is close enough for a car to veer off the road into the lake?

There are A LOT of drop-offs where a car could go off the edge and not be found pretty much every way you drive out there, which is part of why this is such a difficult one.

Like you said, it does not appear they went that direction toward Lake Wolford Road SB - and I think had they looped around onto Valley Center LEFT (west) like initially was said and like I believe pings also indicated with Deer Springs ultimately, I think they would have either continued on Valley Center to where it turns into Valley (S6 on most maps up there) and gone down and then west, or else taken Valley Center Road to Old Castle / Lilac and gone down to 15 that way.

But yes, there are spots on that part of Lake Wolford Rd that could be an issue - or on Woods Valley Road (which might have been a more likely cross route if they had left the casino heading SB on Lake Wolford instead) I've not driven that way past the lake in the last year or so, but considering how low the water level was then, and how much more dry things are now, I think actually ending up in the water would be unlikely.

But off the edge - there and practically every few feet on most routes - absolutely!

 

[TravelingBug]

I'm really doubting the white car is them - personally.

I definitely agree from KGTV's video that what Omari (KNSD) said is correct and the white cars turned right - east - onto Valley Center Road from Lake Wolford Rd.

However, that does NOT fit with the ping near 15 and Deer Springs. *(see next post for another reason)

At all.

And they'd have been hours late if they really were in one of those white cars going NE up to go past Harrah's, toward 76, etc. because they'd still have had to backtrack in order for that ping on 15/Deer Springs to fit.

And truthfully, I really, really doubt they'd drive the mountain route to La Quinta anyway.

 

[TravelingBug]

Anyone willing to hunt to see if there's any copy of the 11 pm news the first night this hit the news on KNSD still floating around (so Monday night)?

Because here's what I typed up watching it:

Left casino (specified the door) and went left and then NB on Lake Wolford, cell phone, then another left at the end of Lake Wolford, and then onto Deer Springs Road for 10 miles until the 15 freeway entrance.

Obviously "onto" should be "over to" Deer Springs /15 freeway entrance, since Lake Wolford Road doesn't directly go to Deer Springs without turning onto other routes. And the random "cell phone" was my note meaning that was the last place her phone pinged (leaving the casino).

But unless I completely misheard that bolded bit during the 11 pm broadcast on KNSD on Monday night, then that from the reported pings would seem to conflict with any report that their car could possibly have been one of the white cars turning right onto Valley Center Rd. instead.

Obviously that initial report would make far more sense - turning left onto Valley Center Road - since that would put them the direction of 15/Deer Springs where there is supposed to be that last ping.

I'm trying to get it another way, but anyone willing to see if they can find that floating around anywhere? I feel like I saw it posted on youtube but now I can't find it?

If that's REALLY what was said Monday night from pings, then that would seem to eliminate white cars turning right onto Valley Center Road from being them AND it would help explain still needing to have caused a ping over on 15 at Deer Springs.

 

[Treelights]

Thing is, if the husband had a medical emergency, Dianna could have gotten help somehow, even if they had to pull over on the road.

Seems like helicopters are the best idea for now - I'd love to know how much area's been covered. It doesn't seem like there's too far they could've gone if they had a sudden accident, or even if they did decide to pull off someplace and commit suicide. BUT, what if that's all wrong and they did decide to take a longer trip? Seems like that'd be very unusual for them, but it's possible. I don't know, it just seems like such a higher visibility area than say, the two women who recently got stuck in Michigan (and were found safe!). I can't believe they haven't been found yet.

And it's strange the fact that her phone was shut off first, then his.
Could they even have called at some point? Their GPS not working, either.
Just seems strange, all these things added up together.
Maybe there was an accident. They lost cell service, phone's shut off, GPS off?
I know, I can't believe they haven't been found yet, either!
IMOO.

 

[TravelingBug]

Thing is, if the husband had a medical emergency, Dianna could have gotten help somehow, even if they had to pull over on the road.

Seems like helicopters are the best idea for now - I'd love to know how much area's been covered. It doesn't seem like there's too far they could've gone if they had a sudden accident, or even if they did decide to pull off someplace and commit suicide. BUT, what if that's all wrong and they did decide to take a longer trip? Seems like that'd be very unusual for them, but it's possible. I don't know, it just seems like such a higher visibility area than say, the two women who recently got stuck in Michigan (and were found safe!). I can't believe they haven't been found yet.

My best thought on medical and why Dianna maybe hadn't been able to summon help would be if he had a medical problem causing them to crash and she was either injured to some extent or they were totally lost and off the road and just not in a place where they're able to attract attention or get to where they can even be seen easily.

But that's just mentally how I could see it happening...but I think that's largely stemming from the fact that it'd almost be HARDER to manage to crash AND be found relatively easily there than the opposite in most of the area surrounding VV and the routes in/out :scared:

Like you, I keep thinking of the Girl Scout eating sisters in Michigan and the two weeks! raying: But the diabetes and not having the advantage of snow or such to melt for water, and thinking unlike with the sisters it seems more likely that Paul and Dianna had either some degree of an accident or a medical emergency causing an accident makes me fear they don't have the 'advantage' (such that it was) that the sisters did of being "stuck" but not having also had a bad crash or something on top of it

But I do keep trying to go back to the sisters and hope by a miracle Paul and Dianna managed to keep their sugars at the right level with whatever little dessert or anything they might have had in the car and help will get to them in time.

Knowing how much temps are dropping starting tomorrow and they're saying potentially 2+ inches of rain by Friday, including possibly hail and thunderstorms again,I fear it is really going to put a damper on stuff though - especially helicopters searching

 

[TravelingBug]

And it's strange the fact that her phone was shut off first, then his.
Could they even have called at some point? Their GPS not working, either.
Just seems strange, all these things added up together.
Maybe there was an accident. They lost cell service, phone's shut off, GPS off?
I know, I can't believe they haven't been found yet, either!
IMOO.

One thing that struck me in my re-listening to all the KNSD videos again trying to find that 11 pm Monday night one gaah was Robert seeming to have said he talked to his mom AT the casino and they were having fun, yada yada.

Considering she apparently uses her phone A LOT, I wonder if she just hadn't been paying attention to the battery (or planning on charging it in the car) and so it just plain went dead, only none of the family would be able to know that obviously, or know what her intentions might have been (perhaps not worrying on the way out thinking she could charge it on the longer drive to LQ perhaps?) :thinking:

I have a few questions I'd love someone to ask Robert...and some specifics about both phones is on that list (cell carrier, type, mom's phone battery life) Now, he may not really know how her battery tends to run, but he'd probably know if she usually has to keep it charged, or has to hang up b/c it's dying, etc.

Like I said, I even have a newer smart phone, and even having it fully charged when I leave, with nothing running, and literally not using it but having it in my bag, in 3 hours of just being in my bag it is pretty much down to about 30%.

If hers was at all similar, then talking from the casino - and who knows, maybe on the way there to one of the kids - it seems like it could be similar perhaps?

Both phones being off or dead or something, and the car tracking not responding, coupled with seeing Paul, especially, seems a little wobbly, and then Robert commenting on seeing him pause and take deep breaths, etc. it just keeps looking more and more like a crash.

And that if something medical didn't cause it, that it's probably not helping things given them both already having the underlying diabetes, Paul having had a recent fall, and then seeming less well to his own family on the video...

 

[Inthedetails]

If he was having trouble breathing at the casino, is it possible they decided to go home instead of to the son's house? Or to the hospital? Does the turn they make lead them to either of those places?

 

[TravelingBug]

If he was having trouble breathing at the casino, is it possible they decided to go home instead of to the son's house? Or to the hospital? Does the turn they make lead them to either of those places?

Interesting thought... :waitasec:

Honestly, if any of the white cars were them at the right-hand turn onto Valley Center (again, I'm skeptical, but going with the possibility it was) it really doesn't take them near anything!

And combine that with the need for frequent bathroom breaks, the original focus on the pings the other direction toward 15 / Deer Springs, that make it seem like a seriously unlikely option (especially then adding in it's far from a drive most people really enjoy going that route! It's more scenic in parts, but it's also more...attention requiring and often frustrating!) I'll add some more specifics about what that route would entail in a follow-up post

Had they aimed for home instead, they'd really almost certainly had to head back toward 15 (in the direction of Deer Springs again) and then they'd most likely have taken 91 across to Fullerton (now they're saying they live there instead of Anaheim).

While there are a few other options they could have taken toward home none are anywhere near as likely (and one even more likely to end badly even on a good day!) but especially with them being from somewhere further north than Anaheim, and with the 91 going quite directly to Fullerton.

Given it seems nearly certain they'd have had to head toward home going in the same direction as it seemed like they were taking according to the pings (getting back to 15 NB by Deer Springs or Gopher Canyon) I think they'd have been seen had they done that and then had an issue en route (medical or otherwise) because 15's just too heavily travelled at all hours for someone not to notice something.

If they headed toward a hospital, it'd most likely have been the very new Palomar Hospital, which is also off the 15 (but on the west side - though only about 2 miles off the freeway)

While Palomar does have a second hospital (their older hospital remained functioning, but for a very limited list of things and not for emergencies) that would be closer, it's unlike they'd have even tried that since they'd likely have had to go to the "real" Palomar now.

There is a smaller hospital in Temecula that could be a possibility, but it's further away (though at least it's heading north) and also not very likely, IMO. While they could go a back way there, again, it's probably more likely had they been headed there that they'd yet again gone west toward 15 / Deer Springs and then gone NB 15.

So...I'd kind of doubt that could explain it (if a right hand turn white car was them) but it's actually an interesting thought b/c perhaps the clue to this is a change in destination that they didn't (or couldn't or whatever) relay to anyone and so then it'd not really been on anyone's radar to check.

Good thought!

 

[TravelingBug]

If he was having trouble breathing at the casino, is it possible they decided to go home instead of to the son's house? Or to the hospital? Does the turn they make lead them to either of those places?

As far as the route they'd have ended up on if they were one of the white cars headed right/east onto Valley Center Rd:

They basically would pass very, very little.

They'd go past another casino (Harrah's) through more reservations, before dead ending at 76 where they'd have 2 options.

Heading east on 76 would take them on a longer and even more desolate (in most ways) 'c-curve' out toward Warner Springs and Palomar Mountain, where they'd have a few other options, including taking a few other turns out there and eventually getting to the 371 to go the back way to La Quinta.

If they went west on 76 they'd pass yet another reservation and casino (Pala) and then again have two options.

They'd have been able to continue west on 76 and hit 15 and so then be aimed toward how they'd most likely have gone to either home or Robert's by continuing on 15.

Their second option would be to take another more rural road (Pala-Temecula) north, past yet another giggle casino (Pechanga), before hitting 79.

At 79 they could have again headed west to 15 or else head east on 79 to go the back way to La Quinta (while passing, of course, yet another casino - Cahuilla)

But unless they truly changed destinations or did a major side stop (which would have made them even later to La Quinta than they already were going to be given the time they left) only one of those options seems very likely, and even that I really think is quite unlikely.

And other than passing through the casino areas at various points, there is not much "civilization," which seems problematic with the specific mention of Dianna typically needing a 'pit stop.'

Does that help?

 

[TravelingBug]

KNSD news at 11:

Planning to expand the search for the couple following the video.

Team Amber is working with them.

They're going to start in a 2 mile radius to look for evidence and continue putting up fliers (they're meeting that church mentioned in one of the earlier articles I posted this evening)

That was basically it.

A very short segment this time (more like the length others had been doing most of the other days)

I watched most of each of the 10 pm broadcasts and didn't see a thing about this on any of them tonight, and must have missed it on both 8 and 10 if they covered it.

Oh, and Team Amber is the group started by Amber Dubois' family after her disappearance and murder. Her remains were actually found just a few miles north of Valley View, near spot off Pala-Temecula Road.

(They were also the orange shirt folks that were totally jarred on an earlier segment when some were being interviewed for a segment that was going to air earlier tonight, only the crazy crash happened RIGHT where they were! It was jarring just watching it on TV! I can't imagine having been there!)

 

[steelman]

These poor folks ended upside-down in a ravine, along the route they were driving. This isn't going to end up being as big of a mystery as it seems. The biggest mystery is which route they drove.

If Knutson lost concentration while negotiating down those winding roads, he could have easily shot right off the road and headed 60, 80, 100 feet downhill into a ravine or crevice. Due to the undergrowth and the vegetation hiding the car tracks, and depending on the steepness of the drop-off involved, it may be virtually impossible to see the vehicle while standing on the paved highway.

For now I'm taking the last ping at the I-15/Deer Springs on- ramp to mean that there is a tower there, and their phone pinged off that tower, that doesn't mean they ever made it that far. I hope that information isn't erroneous, sending everyone on a wild goose chase in the wrong direction. I can't imagine why they would have driven in that direction in order to get to their son's house, since he lived in the exact opposite direction. But for now, I'll have to assume it's valid.

I've seen all the Google streetviews of the I-15 entrance. Obviously there is nowhere within a 1/2 mile or so that they could have driven off into a gorge and gotten hidden from view. If you start to work back towards the casino however, say 3 or 4 miles from that intersection, things begin to get a little more gnarly.

Could they have turned right on Valley Center road and headed down 56 ? Sure, and Knutson's phone could have still pinged off the I-15 tower, let's just call it a "long-distance" ping. Heading down Valley Center (56) and then tying into Highway 76 to get to their son's house would make a lot more sense, not to mention it is a much more sparsely populated area. I would think it is a pretty scenic drive going that way as well. What I can't explain is why there were no more phone pings if they did turn right on Valley Center, unless an accident occurred shortly thereafter. It may also be VERY possible that they simply had no cell service after they got hidden back in the hills, out of range of any cell towers.

Is it possible that the cell tower the ping came from is simply the only one in that immediate area,
thus the misdirection ?

Here is the map I made up a couple of days ago, for anybody that may want to refer to it.
I've added a few more notations to it, a couple of which I discussed in this post.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zAAmDUXJe_aE.kgrCr1tZB1LM

 

[TravelingBug]

<snip>

For now I'm taking the last ping at the I-15/Deer Springs on- ramp to mean that there is a tower there, and their phone pinged off that tower, that doesn't mean they ever made it that far. I hope that information isn't erroneous, sending everyone on a wild goose chase in the wrong direction. I can't imagine why they would have driven in that direction in order to get to their son's house, since he lived in the exact opposite direction. But for now, I'll have to assume it's valid.

I've seen all the Google streetviews of the I-15 entrance. Obviously there is nowhere within a 1/2 mile or so that they could have driven off into a gorge and gotten hidden from view. If you start to work back towards the casino however, say 3 or 4 miles from that intersection, things begin to get a little more gnarly.

Could they have turned right on Valley Center road and headed down 56 ? Sure, and Knutson's phone could have still pinged off the I-15 tower, let's just call it a "long-distance" ping. Heading down Valley Center (56) and then tying into Highway 76 to get to their son's house would make a lot more sense, not to mention it is a much more sparsely populated area. I would think it is a pretty scenic drive going that way as well. What I can't explain is why there were no more phone pings if they did turn right on Valley Center, unless an accident occurred shortly thereafter. It may also be VERY possible that they simply had no cell service after they got hidden back in the hills, out of range of any cell towers.

Is it possible that the cell tower the ping came from is simply the only one in that immediate area,
thus the misdirection ?

<snip?

I definitely agree I'm not at all convinced they were TRULY as close to 15 / Deer Springs as has been conveyed, at least early on.

However I DO think it could have pinged that tower if they were on the lower end of Old Castle getting closer to Champagne Blvd and within 1-3 miles from 15 over there.

The lack of bathroom options for someone who frequently needed them is a huge deterrent in my thinking they would ever have gone the back way - especially with it just being a more 'high demand' route that feels desolate for much of it. Not one that screams "older couple" type route whatsoever.

It's primarily MC riders, show-boat-y drivers, and ones that have to use it but truly have no idea how to safely drive it so the actually make it more dangerous. There are crashes that shut the entire thing down for stretches at a time VERY regularly, especially on weekends when groups of riders are also out.

I don't think there is ANY chance they could have pinged the Deer Springs tower had they really gone toward the back way (by any means - Valley Center Road and up and over or not).

And I know for a fact that actually there is a spot going down S6 that's actually the place I finally CAN get a signal over there and my phone can call or get texts (and likewise ping out). So I actually think it's far, far more likely had they gone that way there'd be a definite ping over there.

I truly can't imagine there being any way it could not pick up anything closer than Deer Springs period that far away, but really can't imagine it wouldn't have pinged closer to the top of the grade.

Aside from the one by the grade, the other place I know I can get pinged is out by Warner Springs by the glider port.

I'm sure it can vary by carrier and phone, but I'd have a hard time imagining any way they'd have pinged Deer Springs if they were never even several miles closer west than they'd have to be from Valley View alone, let alone then going further north and/or east to go the back way.

But that's just my take from being out there personally, and my (frustrating :giggle attempts to actually be able to talk with friends who live out there, depending on where they are at the time!

 

[TravelingBug]

Is it possible that the cell tower the ping came from is simply the only one in that immediate area,
thus the misdirection ?

I've also got friends off Woods Valley (not far off Lake Wolford - so basically SB from Valley View and then you'd cross a bit west to get to to S6 SB) and their home is used for weddings a lot and they do get reception, but not great.

And basically at Cole Grade and Cool Valley - meaning north of Valley View, and almost directly parallel to like where Harrah's is at S6, my friends only have cell phones.

So I'd think there's got to be multiple places over there to ping from, no? :waitasec:

Especially since even being as close to Deer Springs at Lawrence Welk I always used to be in a completely dead zone.

But :dunno:

 

[keeponsearching]

I think they must have crashed somewhere.... But why did the cells turn off at different times. I will have to look into the vandalism story later when I have time to see what happen.

Does Dianna do all the driving?

 

[TravelingBug]

I think they must have crashed somewhere.... But why did the cells turn off at different times. I will have to look into the vandalism story later when I have time to see what happen.

Does Dianna do all the driving?

It seems Paul does or at least did that day.

He went and got the car and drove it up to the front of VV for her to be able to get in and not have to walk to it.

I'd think her battery could have simply died, she could have accidentally tried to put it to "sleep" and instead turned off the power, or even dropped it somewhere and not realize it in the noise of the casino, etc.