Still Missing CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4) Calif. City, *parents charged* 21 Dec 2020 #7

[PommyMommy]

Morning Testimony, Part 2
DAY SEVEN - April 13, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews

Smith said he has other witnesses in the hallway he can call while the computer is being fixed. #WestsTrial

Charles Pettus has been called to the stand. #WestsTrial

Change of plans, Eric Smith said. He called Josiah West instead. #WestsTrial

Josiah West is 27. His father is Phillip West, mother Wanda West. #WestsTrial

He has two brothers -- one of them is Trezell West. Josiah said he's the youngest brother. #WestsTrial

In January 2020 Josiah was living with his parents at a home on Potomac Avenue. He said Trezell was living in an apartment. He visited Trezell once or twice every 5 months. #WestsTrial

Josiah said he would watch the Wests' kids. He mentioned watching just two of the boys. He said he was there just to babysit. #WestsTrial

Trezell would also bring children to his parents' home, Josiah said. All the kids would come, including Orrin and Orson. #WestsTrial

Josiah said he had a normal relationship with his brother. #WestsTrial

Smith is asking about the children, what they were like. #WestsTrial

Josiah is describing each of the children, their personalities. #WestsTrial

Orrin played with all of the boys. Orson was similar to his brother. They didn't speak a lot, were concerned with playing or being around the adults. They interacted with the other boys a lot. #WestsTrial

In 2020 he learned Trezell planned to move to Cal City, Josiah said. He said he wasn't aware when the move took place but said his mother helped them move. #WestsTrial

Josiah says he believes his mother was only gone one day helping with the move. #WestsTrial

He never visited them in Cal City. He said he was busy with other things. #WestsTrial

Moving to the weekend of Dec. 19, 2020, Josiah says CPS showed up and spoke with his parents and let them know there was a situation and it was best to remove the children from the house until it was figured out. #WestsTrial

The children had been at the home on Potomac for a couple hours, maybe less, Josiah says. All the boys except Orrin and Orson were there. #WestsTrial

Josiah said he wasn't informed where the other 4 children were taken. He said he eventually was able to see the children again for brief interactions. #WestsTrial

Josiah said he remembers a visit by Trezell and Jacqueline West around the first week of December 2020. He said the four older kids would have been there. He babysat them. They made a gingerbread house. #WestsTrial

Trezell was gone about 2 hours, Josiah said. He said he didnt' tell him where he was going. #WestsTrial

Josiah said he didn't see Orrin or Orson that day. Later in the month when the other boys arrived he also didn't see Orrin or Orson. #WestsTrial

At not point in December did he see Orrin or Orson, Josiah said. He never saw them after Trezell and Jacqueline moved to Cal City. #WestsTrial

 

[PommyMommy]

Morning Testimony, Part 3
DAY SEVEN - April 13, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews

Smith has finished questioning Josiah. Timothy Hennessy, lead attorney for Trezell West, has begun cross-examination. #WestsTrial

Under questions from Hennessy, Josiah said his relationship with Trezell was "lackluster" and they didn't see eye to eye. #WestsTrial

They argued over a lot of things, including what type of dog food to buy. #WestsTrial

Josiah said he was involved with work and school once all the boys had been adopted by the Wests. When he spoke to FBI he wasn't certain about ages of the boys. #WestsTrial

Josiah had told the FBI he had seen videos on his mother's phone of all the children. Hennessy finished questioning, now Alekxia Torres Stallings, Jacqueline West's lead attorney, is conducting cross-examination. #WestsTrial

She asked if two of the other children would be described as "slow." Josiah said that's a loaded term and he wouldn't use it but they weren't as fast at picking things up as the oldest children. #WestsTrial

Josiah said his family spent a lot of time helping them communicate. With one of the children there was a learning process, teaching him not to get physical or violent when he didn't get what he wanted. #WestsTrial

Moving to Orrin, Josiah said he was the type to make noises, stutter, mumble or cry to communicate what he wanted. He doesn't know if that was because of his age, something he would grow out of. Orson was the same way, he said. #WestsTrial

On Dec. 22, 2020, when CPS visited, Josiah was home when an officer came to interview the four other children. #WestsTrial

The officer made sure the adults were in other rooms when the kids were interviewed, Josiah said. The children would have been sleeping when the officer arrived. #WestsTrial

Josiah said the officer later said the Cal City home resembled a "military garrison." #WestsTrial

Torres Stallings is asking if the children ate anything before interviewed by the officer. Josiah said CPS arrived afterward with snacks. #WestsTrial

Josiah said after the children were taken they made attempts to reach out to the children after taking classes to become foster parents but it was "to no avail." #WestsTrial

Josiah said it appeared CPS did not want his side of the family to "speak openly" with the children, their interactions were limited. #WestsTrial

On Dec. 19, 2020, when the other children were dropped off Josiah said he gave Trezell a hug and told him he loved him, hoped things would go well in their new home. #WestsTrial

Asked if the van was running, Josiah said it was and he didn't look inside it. Josiah has been excused. #WestsTrial

Court is in recess for 15 minutes. #WestsTrial

 

[Seattle1]

There seemed to be a lot of that in their lives.
Birth mom lost them because someone broke the older boys' legs.
Foster family lost them because someone abused one or both of them.
Adoptive family killed them.
Two little boys who never stood a chance.

If Orin and Orson were removed from the previous foster family for cause, requiring immediate placement, I wonder how they came to the attention of the West couple.

Had TW/JW been in contact with the agency and informed them they were ready to take on more children after the successful foster/adoption of two brothers (older children), or did the agency contact them when they suddenly had two allegedly endangered toddlers removed from another family, needing immediately foster placement?

IMO, the couple's involvement with the foster system was all financial and it doesn't follow they would intentionally deprive themselves of half the support they lived off of:

KGET 17 News
@KGETnews

Life was "great" when they moved to Cal City in September 2020, Jacqueline says. Her husband was working on is music. She says they get $1,000 a month for each of their 4 adopted children. #WestsTrial

2:32 PM · Apr 12, 2023


Prior to the trial, I speculated several scenarios for their absence but since the testimony, I think it is more likely that one of the boys was sick and died, and soon after, his brother was overdosed and/or harmed in the night by TS to keep him quiet and not disturb the others while the couple was still trying to figure out how to explain the death of the first child.

Regardless, there's no doubt in my mind these children are no longer here because of the action and/or inaction of this couple. And the arrogance that they could get away with it!

Seems to me there should be a limit on the number of children that can be fostered. MOO

 

[mickey2942]

Sounds like Josiah is being truthful, and doesn't want any part of his brother's mess.

 

[PommyMommy]

There seemed to be a lot of that in their lives.
Birth mom lost them because someone broke the older boys' legs.
Foster family lost them because someone abused one or both of them.
Adoptive family killed them.
Two little boys who never stood a chance.

I haven't heard any testimony that indicates either of the boys were abused while being fostered by Sanders. According to her, they were removed after an incident involving her daughter which, at this point, has not been disputed. Agree on all the rest, sadly. MOO

CPS came to Sanders' home after her eldest daughter went to school with a scrape on her leg and somehow her husband became accused of kicking her. She said she raised her voice to the CPS worker and Orrin and Orson were later removed. #WestsTrial

"I fought the county to have them returned to me until the day they were adopted out," Sanders said. Everything alleged about the girl being kicked was unsubstantiated, she said. #WestsTrial

Before that incident, the process of adopting the boys was about to begin, Sanders said. #WestsTrial

Regarding the incident with her daughter, the school made a referral to CPS, Sanders said. It had nothing to do with the other children in her home, only her daughter, she said. #WestsTrial

Only her foster children were removed. Her 6-year-old daughter -- the one with the scrape -- was allowed to stay, Sanders said. She said the CPS worker was responsible for that, had the kids removed 3 hours after going to her home. #WestsTrial

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

I disagree. Anyone who abuses or murders their foster children is not a person who had good intentions and became overwhelmed. They are abusive people to begin with. Some people do it for the money and are able to fool whoever they have to so they can be approved. There are people in this world who work with children, the elderly, hospital patients just so they can have access to vulnerable populations to abuse or kill them. They seek positions of power over the vulnerable to do what they want. You will find them everywhere - priests, boy scout leaders, teachers, nurses, doctors, you name it.

It almost sounds like you are blaming the children. That is not even how trauma works. A traumatized child needs specialized healing and foster parents have not had the years of training that psychologists and psychiatrists have. Love and a good home does not magically heal trauma. The foster parents are provided free medical care for the children. It is their responsibility to see to it that the children get what they need to heal and thrive physically, socially and mentally. There are zero excuses for not doing the basics.

The West's adopted two other boys they apparently got along with fine. Sorry, but I do not believe they woke up one morning and hatched a plot to go adopt a couple more foster kids so they would have someone to beat on after breakfast.

I'm sure they did take them in for the money. I think the money is a deciding factor for 90% of foster parents, whether they admit it -even to themselves- or not. That's why the money is offered. Do you think if the states stopped paying they would still have foster homes and foster parents?

Of course I'm not blaming the children. If anyone, I blame Walt Disney for perpetuating the idea that everyone and everything can be healed, reformed and tamed by love and nurturing and understanding. The fact it doesn't work that way is exactly the point I was trying to make, although I admit that piece of writing wasn't my best.

I agree these kids needed a far different environment than what the West's were able or willing to provide.

 

[PommyMommy]

Morning Testimony, Part 4
DAY SEVEN - April 13, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews

Court is back in session with a witness joining through Zoom. Sgt. Daniel McClive is testifying. He is with the Bakersfield Police Department. #WestsTrial

McClive has previously analyzed digital devices for the department including cellphones and computers. #WestsTrial

McClive is going over his qualifications and training. #WestsTrial

McClive testified he would receive an item from an officer or get it from the property room to extract information from it. #WestsTrial

It's possible to get call logs, text messages, chats from different locations, location data, web history from a phone, McClive said. Sometimes it's not possible to download info. Then they'll manually review info. #WestsTrial

With a DVR system, they'll remove the device's internal storage and try to get info from it. They'll copy a hard drive's contents or connect it to an item to examine it. #WestsTrial

Certain software can look for video files on the DVR. #WestsTrial

Regarding this case, McClive examined a Samsung Galaxy phone on Dec. 20, 2020. He retrieved info and gave it to a detective. #WestsTrial

Correction: Dec. 30 #WestsTrial

McClive said he also received a hard disk drive from an FBI investigator. It contained forensic copies of certain data from multiple devices. #WestsTrial

McClive is going over items received from the FBI agent and what he did with them. #WestsTrial

McClive is telling prosecutor Eric Smith the devices examined and whether information was obtained but is not going into specifics about the information. #WestsTrial

Smith showed McClive two pages through the Zoom camera. They're related to a Swann DVR. #WestsTrial

Other pages have been shown to McClive. They're a portion of a report from Night Owl DVR data. #WestsTrial

Smith ended his questioning. Victor Nasser, one of Trezell West's attorneys, has begun cross-examination. #WestsTrial

 

[mickey2942]

The West's adopted two other boys they apparently got along with fine. Sorry, but I do not believe they woke up one morning and hatched a plot to go adopt a couple more foster kids so they would have someone to beat on after breakfast.

I'm sure they did take them in for the money. I think the money is a deciding factor for 90% of foster parents, whether they admit it -even to themselves- or not. That's why the money is offered. Do you think if the states stopped paying they would still have foster homes and foster parents?

Of course I'm not blaming the children. If anyone, I blame Walt Disney for perpetuating the idea that everyone and everything can be healed, reformed and tamed by love and nurturing and understanding. The fact it doesn't work that way is exactly the point I was trying to make, although I admit that piece of writing wasn't my best.

I agree these kids needed a far different environment than what the West's were able or willing to provide.

The problem is that once the Wests realized these kids needed more than they could provide, they didn't want to just give them back, because that was half their income. That is the problem with payment for foster care/adoption incentives.

The real problem was lack of follow up by the placement agency. Or even assessment.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Appears that she's testifying with an interpreter. I don't think English is her first language and maybe she could not communicate with the grandkids. But doesn't sound like the mother-daughter communication was all that great either. Stranger that under these circumstances, they were neighbors. JMO

thats no reason. my older 2 sons gma does not speak english. she understands ok but cant speak it. she kept my sons all the time and they understood what she was saying, but didnt speak spanish well. this is more of a family dynamic, or JW was isolated from her outside family.

 

[cvaldez1975]

How is she able to foster and adopt and not able to communicate in English ? Did you find that she understood the questions posed to her in English ? I mainly heard the interpreter state her answer but not so much repeating the questions in spanish.

I thought the whole relationship with "her" was strange. I didn't hear her say J's name. She referred to J as "her". She barely remembered the biological children's names and the names of the adopted kids was too much trouble for her. I've never heard anything like it.

they were likely spanish speaking kids.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

The problem is that once the Wests realized these kids needed more than they could provide, they didn't want to just give them back, because that was half their income. That is the problem with payment for foster care/adoption incentives.

The real problem was lack of follow up by the placement agency. Or even assessment.

Yes; I agree. They had just bought a house and needed every cent they could get, so they tried to hide the problems they were having.
If they had been honest with the placement agency I'm sure they could have gotten some help with the situation and this tragedy averted.

Maybe a requirement should be that foster parents have to be able to pay all their bills even without any of the foster income? If that's unrealistic, maybe an amount equal to all the bills for two months needs to be set aside in a savings account?

 

[Kingsley]

The problem is that once the Wests realized these kids needed more than they could provide, they didn't want to just give them back, because that was half their income. That is the problem with payment for foster care/adoption incentives.

The real problem was lack of follow up by the placement agency. Or even assessment.

L. Sander's testimony supports the follow up issue after adoption below. It seems to be a bizarre situation - $s for adoption with no accountability:

from @PommyMommy post #866

Sanders said she has fostered children. She began doing that in 2008. The agency she went through was Safe Haven. #WestsTrial

There's a home inspection, interviews, training, Sanders said. #WestsTrial

There's training required every year to stay licensed, Sanders said. She currently has 2 foster children and 4 biological children. #WestsTrial

Safe Haven made contact with her once a week, and a county social worker once a month when fostering a child. #WestsTrial

After adoption, there are no check-ins on a regular basis, Sanders said. #WestsTrial

 

[cvaldez1975]

There seemed to be a lot of that in their lives.
Birth mom lost them because someone broke the older boys' legs.
Foster family lost them because someone abused one or both of them.
Adoptive family killed them.
Two little boys who never stood a chance.

it was another family member at the first foster fam. not that it means much.

 

[cvaldez1975]

cincere looks like hes on time out in the restroom he has "the beak" (pouty face)

to quote myself. potty abuse? its so common.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

it was another family member at the first foster fam. not that it means much.

Yeah; someone corrected me upstream.

 

[mickey2942]

Yes; I agree. They had just bought a house and needed every cent they could get, so they tried to hide the problems they were having.
If they had been honest with the placement agency I'm sure they could have gotten some help with the situation and this tragedy averted.

Maybe a requirement should be that foster parents have to be able to pay all their bills even without any of the foster income? If that's unrealistic, maybe an amount equal to all the bills for two months needs to be set aside in a savings account?

California appears to have some pretty loose standards. Most states require at least one person in the household to have full time employment, or some sort of benefit income. So that adoption subsidies are not the sole source of income, as in this situation.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Morning Testimony, Part 1
DAY SIX - April 12, 2023

https://twitter.com/KGETnews

Day 6 of the trial of Trezell and Jacqueline West is about to begin with Maria Martinez, Jacqueline West's mother, back on the witness stand. #WestsTrial

The Wests have pleaded not guilty and defense counsel has said they had nothing to do with the boys' disappearance in December 2020. #WestsTrial

Prosecutor Eric Smith is playing an interview Martinez had with authorities on Dec. 23, 2020, two days after the Wests reported the children missing. #WestsTrial

Martinez said Jacqueline West came to visit her after the Wests moved to California City. She said she didn't see the children and believed they were in the Wests' van. #WestsTrial

Jacqueline West stayed with her a couple hours, she said. Trezell came back later to load wooden planks. Martinez said she still didn't see the kids and Trezell and Jacqueline left. #WestsTrial

Martinez in the video said Jacqueline told her the kids were with Trezell's mom. #WestsTrial

The video has ended. #WestsTrial

Smith is questioning Martinez. She said on the day referred to in the interview she's not sure how much time she spent with her daughter. She believes it was an hour. #WestsTrial

Martinez said she went to a friend's house that day. "The only one that I have," she said. She can't remember her friend's last name. #WestsTrial

Martinez said Trezell West had been trying to load wood into the van but it wouldn't fit. She said she was present with her friend. #WestsTrial

The Wests left and said they were going to pick up the children, Martinez said. That was the one time the couple visited her after moving from Bakersfield to California City, she said. #WestsTrial

Martinez said the FBI went to her house after Orrin and Orson were reported missing. She called Jacqueline West then went to see her at the Cal City home. #WestsTrial

Martinez isn't sure what day she visited. #WestsTrial

At some point she spoke with Bakersfield police detectives, Martinez said. #WestsTrial

Smith has asked Martinez to identify Facebook messaging between her and her daughter in August 2020. Martinez said she doesn't recognize it. #WestsTrial

Smith displayed a photo showing two of the Wests' children, not Orrin or Orson, in Jacqueline West's home. Smith circled 2 chairs in the photo and Martinez said that's where "the babies" would sit. #WestsTrial

Smith is now displaying photos of the California City home and asking Martinez to identify different areas in it. #WestsTrial

When she went to the house before the children were reported missing she doesn't know if she went inside because she was on her way to San Fernando, Martinez said. #WestsTrial

Martinez said the children were "all there" the one time but she didn't pay attention. They were playing with their father, she said. #WestsTrial

Martinez said she walked into the dining room and it was just her and Jacqueline in the dining room. She said Jacqueline had coffee ready for her, and she left shortly after. #WestsTrial

When Martinez left the dining room she said goodbye and they shouted goodbye, she said. She said she didn't focus on the children. #WestsTrial

The children didn't leave the room, they were playing games, Martinez said. She didn't stop and speak to each grandchild. She didn't look at their faces. #WestsTrial

After the Wests moved to Cal City Martinez visited them two times, she said. Asked if she "focused in" and saw Orrin and Orson, Martinez said she always saw them together in the living room. #WestsTrial

Smith asked for clarification, and Martinez said their backs were facing her and they were playing. Then she reiterated she never focused on any of the children. #WestsTrial

Martinez claims to have seen all the children, but admitted saying she didn't focus on them when visiting. #WestsTrial

Smith ended his questioning and Fatima Rodriguez, one of Jacqueline West's attorneys, has begun cross-examination. #WestsTrial

Martinez said two men from the FBI went to her home. They did not speak Spanish, and Martinez is a Spanish speaker. #WestsTrial

Martinez testified the agents used a cellphone to translate and speak with her. #WestsTrial

Martinez said her testimony to the agents was not that she didn't know Orrin and Orson's names, but didn't know how to pronounce them. #WestsTrial

Martinez said she was not able to clarify her answers during the interview, even after a BPD officer arrived and translated. #WestsTrial

When she visited the Wests at their home on Oct. 10, 2020, Martinez said she walked past them and said hi then had a cup of coffee with her daughter. She said all the children were there playing. #WestsTrial

Under questioning by Rodriguez, Martinez said nothing seemed out of the ordinary. #WestsTrial

Martinez testified the FBI examined her phone. She said she had Facebook video chats from her daughter on the phone. #WestsTrial

Rodriguez is asking Martinez if she doesn't remember exchanging messages with Jacqueline Martinez about how Jacqueline and Trezell were looking at a house in Cal City. #WestsTrial

Testimony is focusing on interactions Martinez had with the Wests after they moved to Cal City, the few visits she had. #WestsTrial

Martinez said she was repeatedly interviewed by law enforcement and said she was told she'd be charged with a crime if she lied. #WestsTrial

CPS came to her home once and asked to check for bruising or marks on her own adopted children, Martinez said. #WestsTrial

Fatima asked, when officers questioned Martinez regarding the boys' disappearance, if she was told she'd be charged with a crime if she covered for Jacqueline. Martinez said yes. It happened multiple times, she said. #WestsTrial

Rodriguez ended her questioning and now Victor Nasser, one of Trezell West's attorneys, is questioning her. #WestsTrial

Nasser asked a couple quick questions then ended, now prosecutor Eric Smith is again questioning her. Martinez said she hardly saw Jacqueline West in 2020. She said she simply doesn't like to visit. #WestsTrial

In 2020, Martinez said she didn't know the names of Orrin and Orson. #WestsTrial

Smith is showing Martinez video clips of her speaking with law enforcement. He's going to move the clips into evidence and provide transcripts to the jury. #WestsTrial

In one of the clips, Martinez said she doesn't know the children's names because they were changed. Smith asked if that referred to her knowing the names of Orrin and Orson, and she said, "Correct." #WestsTrial

In another clip, Martinez tells law enforcement she didn't like to visit her daughter when Trezell West was present. Martinez testified she couldn't talk to him and felt uncomfortable. #WestsTrial

Court is in recess for 15 minutes. #WestsTrial

wow. she dunno nuffin.

 

[PommyMommy]

Morning Testimony, Part 5
DAY SEVEN - April 13, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews

Nasser is asking about the reports Smith just showed McClive. Regarding the Swann DVR report, Nasser said it shows a total number of clips. He asked if McClive was aware of the location where video was captured. McClive said he wasn't. #WestsTrial

McClive said he believes he was advised the video was from Cal City, but not specifically where. Regarding the Night Owl (both DVRs have many thousands of clips), the earliest clips is listed as Sept. 10, 2020, the latest Sept. 14, 2020. #WestsTrial

Going back to the Swann DVR, the earliest clip was Dec. 8, 2020, and the latest Dec. 27, 2020. #WestsTrial

Nasser asked if anyone prior to McClive's analysis had analyzed the DVRs. McClive said he doesn't know if anyone outside his office analyzed them. #WestsTrial

It's his understanding the DVRs were later returned to their owners, McClive said. #WestsTrial

Nasser ended his questioning. #WestsTrial

McClive has been excused. #WestsTrial

 

[PommyMommy]

Morning Testimony, Part 6
DAY SEVEN - April 13, 2023
https://twitter.com/KGETnews

Charles Pettus has been called to the stand. He's the biological father of Orson West. The child's birth name was Classic Pettus. #WestsTrial

Pettus said he became aware he was Orson's father after going to court. He had taken a paternity test. #WestsTrial

He found out Orrin and Orson were reported missing when he got a call while playing a video game with at a family member's house. #WestsTrial

"I was real upset and, like, scared," Pettus said. He said he called his mom, didn't really know what to do. #WestsTrial

He eventually went to Cal City with family to try to find out what happened. Pettus said he was out there for 30 minutes to an hour when Trezell and Jacqueline West were questioned by media. #WestsTrial

Pettus testified that was his first time in Cal City. Smith asked if he went to Cal City and kidnapped the boys. Pettus said no and he stays in Bakersfield. #WestsTrial

A lot of his family came to support him after the boys disappeared. Smith asked if anyone in his family has the name or nickname of "Tee Tee." Pettus said no. #WestsTrial

Smith ended his questioning. Torres Stallings has begun cross-examination. #WestsTrial

Pettus said he believed he was the biological father of both Orrin and Orson but it was determined he was only Orson's father. #WestsTrial

Torres Stallings is trying to pin down when law enforcement first contacted Pettus. He said it might have been a couple weeks. #WestsTrial

Torres Stallings has asked Pettus to read something on a laptop. #WestsTrial

Pettus said he remembers what she showed him, and he said he had to call officers about the case. Neither his phone nor computer were seized, he said. #WestsTrial

"Has anyone prepared you for your testimony?" Torres Stallings asked. He said he has stayed to himself because the case bothers him a lot. He said he hasn't listened to the case or discussed it with family members who have heard testimony. #WestsTrial

Pettus said a relative Torres Stallings identified has not given him information about others who have testified. Torres Stallings ended her questioning. Pettus has been excused. #WestsTrial

Court is in recess until 1:30 p.m. #WestsTrial

 

[cvaldez1975]

rsbm bbm

So Grandma/Abuelita visits twice.

But Grandma/Abuelita, who has foster children, does not interact with her grandchildren?

Color me confused....

jmho ymmv lrr

JW said she started doing fostering after her mom did. i wonder if gma was doing it for money too.