GUILTY CA - Classic (Orson West, 3) & Cincere (Orrin West, 4), still missing, Calif. City, *Mistrial on counts 4 & 5)* 21 Dec 2020 #8

[iamshadow21]

Finally up to date and here for Classic and Cincere.

Thank you to @cuffem , @PommyMommy and @AmandaReckonwith for the detail in the threads, I would have been lost without you.

I'm holding on to hope, here. I can't let myself imagine a world where these two could get access to children again.

I thought there were standout bits for me. The joking about missing socks/missing kids. The provable lies about movements around the time the kids were reported missing with the neighbour's cams. The testimony of the kids was powerful, to me. I don't see any issues with the changing of the stories - these kids were scared. And they were still having contact regularly with their abusers. And yet all of them talked about not seeing the boys for months, about the boys going away because they cried too much.

I hope the jury sees it the same way.

I am sad they will never find the kids. Two kids that tiny, going to landfill, and nobody knowing to look for them? There'd be nothing to find after this long. Landfills are brutal places designed to smash stuff up and help it break down. <modsnip: Referenced information not accurate> It's upsetting, it messes me up any time someone puts a kid in the garbage, but I'm hoping that there will be some justice to memorialise them.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

One more thing, the story about JW restraining/holding the boys for up to an hour and screaming at them?

I'm looking to the case in my signature, that of Skyler, and all the other kids who are adopted or fostered and treated with restraint, brutality, food restriction, isolation, and other abuse. I think JW had read about this way of abusing kids as a 'cure' for supposed 'attachment issues' with adopted kids and found inspiration and validation for her harsh treatment of them, even if she wasn't a devoted follower of the ideology behind it. Perhaps I'm biased because this form of abuse is a pet issue for me, but I can't get past the parallels. The practice of holding a kid harshly for extended periods and screaming abuse at them is a key part of a lot of these cases.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Websleuths is fact based and requires links to information stated as fact.

Please do not state information as fact or reference specific information without providing a link to MSM, LE, or a scholarly article to substantiate what you are posting. Friends or "I read somewhere" or "somebody told me", etc are not valid sources, they are rumor or hearsay.

Example: Someone earlier claimed that cadaver dogs are not used in landfill searches. That statement has been removed as it is not accurate, and this is why WS requires links to support such claims.

There are numerous sources that have specified that cadaver dogs have been used in landfill searches. It can depend on the policy of a particular agency or handler whether they allow their dogs to conduct landfill searches, but there are numerous examples in a google search that will confirm they are in fact used at times.

Cadaver dogs and landfills

Human remains dogs and landfills

 

[Knox]

Hoping today’s the day - GUILTY on all counts X two!!!

 

[iamshadow21]

Hoping today’s the day - GUILTY on all counts X two!!!

So mote it be.

Justice, please, justice, for these two beautiful boys who never caught a break in their entire short lives.

 

[Chelly]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659339564610093056

Reminder: Jury returns at 11 a.m. today (scheduling issues).

 

[heartandsoul]

Hoping today is the day that justice will be given to those two beautiful boys

 

[cuffem]

One more thing, the story about JW restraining/holding the boys for up to an hour and screaming at them?

I'm looking to the case in my signature, that of Skyler, and all the other kids who are adopted or fostered and treated with restraint, brutality, food restriction, isolation, and other abuse. I think JW had read about this way of abusing kids as a 'cure' for supposed 'attachment issues' with adopted kids and found inspiration and validation for her harsh treatment of them, even if she wasn't a devoted follower of the ideology behind it. Perhaps I'm biased because this form of abuse is a pet issue for me, but I can't get past the parallels. The practice of holding a kid harshly for extended periods and screaming abuse at them is a key part of a lot of these cases.

MOO

I am glad you mentioned this, I really expected Stallings to use restraint techniques as some kind of treatment for difficult children but she only briefly mentioned ii with CPS Barton.

 

[Knox]

Reminder: Jury returns at 11 a.m. today (scheduling issues).

@cuffem is right, the jury had a lot of evidence to work through and two defendants increases the time it takes to consider all the charges. If we do get a verdict today, that would actually be quick.

To me, the questions that came back to the Judge indicate they are coming back with guilty verdicts - JMO.

This has been a rollercoaster of a trial, at some points I was fearful the State's case was weak. But if you only consider the basic elements of the case, it's clear Trezell & Jacqueline are responsible for the disappearance of Orrin & Orson. They didn't walk out the gate of the backyard, weren't abducted by a phantom car/person lurking in the neighborhood.

At the end of this, my thoughts will be with the other four children. I want them to be able to deal with the nightmare that has been their lives, put it behind them and live a secure, happy life. I also hope there is reform in the Kern County system. Those two should never have been allowed to foster/adopt in the first place. Where was the due diligence on the County's part?

 

[Knox]

I am glad you mentioned this, I really expected Stallings to use restraint techniques as some kind of treatment for difficult children but she only briefly mentioned ii with CPS Barton.

Touching that subject with a ten foot pole would be a mistake. There's no way to really justify that, especially since she herself didn't identify any real diagnosed issues with either child, when asked by LE.

 

[cuffem]

Touching that subject with a ten foot pole would be a mistake. There's no way to really justify that, especially since she herself didn't identify any real diagnosed issues with either child, when asked by LE.

I think she only mentioned it to try and plant the thought in the jury's minds. She had to say something in regards to JW's abuse allegations by one of the children.
If my memory is correct she even tried to briefly explain the baby bottle blender food as a valid way to get a child nourishment.

 

[GeorgiaRai]

... I was fearful the State's case was weak. But if you only consider the basic elements of the case, it's clear Trezell & Jacqueline are responsible for the disappearance of Orrin & Orson. They didn't walk out the gate of the backyard, weren't abducted by a phantom car/person lurking in the neighborhood.

[snipped by me]
This is where I'm at.

I wasn't blown away by the prosecution but it really requires a suspension of disbelief to think anything else could have happened to these boys. I'm glad the jury didn't rush; I have much more confidence in their verdict knowing they were thorough and thoughtful.

 

[formerjerseygirl]

West Trial: Media told to arrive at 11 a.m. for hearing

UPDATE: Court officials sent an email at 8:52 a.m. telling media to arrive at Department 4 at 11 a.m. with cameras. The judge has previously said filming would only be allowed during opening statem…

www.kget.com

<modsnip>

 

[formerjerseygirl]

UPDATE: Court officials sent an email at 8:52 a.m. telling media to arrive at Department 4 at 11 a.m. with cameras. The judge has previously said filming would only be allowed during opening statements, closing arguments and the outcome of the trial.

West Trial: Media told to arrive at 11 a.m. for hearing

UPDATE: Court officials sent an email at 8:52 a.m. telling media to arrive at Department 4 at 11 a.m. with cameras. The judge has previously said filming would only be allowed during opening statem…

www.kget.com

 

[iamshadow21]

I am glad you mentioned this, I really expected Stallings to use restraint techniques as some kind of treatment for difficult children but she only briefly mentioned ii with CPS Barton.

I think that would be a hard sell, given the rates of injury, death, and PTSD in kids who experience it, even when it's done 'right'. It's not good.

This resource below is a good one, if you want to know more about the harm that can be caused by restraint and seclusion of minors. The film is great, but it's absolutely heartbreaking, so only watch it if you're sure. The resources section has published articles, statistics, etc.

Stop Hurting Kids | End Restraint And Seclusion

That JW practiced a lot of the elements that come with discredited, abusive techniques like "holding therapy" really doesn't surprise me. They created a home more akin to a prison, where they were in total control.

MOO

 

[cuffem]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659593689138855936

It still states no verdict has been announced.

 

[cuffem]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659592867738800128

 

[cuffem]

Anyone have a live link for where this might be posted live?

 

[Chelly]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659592867738800128

This is interesting and a bit confusing. The jury has not yet announced a verdict. Jury is not due back to court until 11 a.m. But apparently court is preparing for a verdict since it is calling in media for filming

 

[shotgun09]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I agree, it sounds like a" heads up for the heads up order " to me.
Court speak for get yourselves to the courtroom. Time is of the essence. IMO