CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[Deleted member 287549]

Part 2 of my comments/observations re: the MB case:

-I'm appalled that jokes were made on national talk shows ATT the crimes occurred "poking fun" at the abuse that occurred.

-As has been mentioned, one of the reasons the punishment was so harsh in the second trial (Spring 1996) was because the L.A. court system had egg on their face due to O.J. being acquitted in Fall 1995 (less than a year before). So, they wanted to make sure the same thing didn't happen again. And, because of this - the authorities didn't allow the family testimony re: the abuse in the second trial - which irrevocably hurt the defense.

-Though I understand why the MB felt they were backed into a corner re: the abuse by the father, etc. - I still think they should have gone to prison for the crime. However, I believe the sentence was way too harsh. I.e., I do think they should have been out of prison by now & didn't deserve to go to jail forever - due to the circumstances of the crime.

-It was significant that when EM was first put in prison after the initial arrest, he stated that he preferred being in prison (a horrific place, obviously) to being at home with his parents due to the ongoing abuse, etc.

-As has been mentioned re: this case, if the two brothers had instead been sisters & under the exact same circumstances (re: the abuse, etc.) I don't believe they would have gone to prison for the crime. Or, if they did - it wouldn't have been for life. Very unfair.

-The above being said, if this exact same case had occurred now, IMHO more people would have believed the MB & they may have been treated more leniently by the court system.

 

[ilovewings]

I am watching a re-hash of this case on Dateline-- Even if there was abuse, I do not for one freaking minute believe they thought their parents were going to kill them. What a crock. The other thought is why didn't they leave the house if the abuse was so awful. They were of age to leave. They were not children. I know at the time of the trial I did not believe their story of abuse and still don't. The way they executed their mother, the way they spent all that money they inherited and their demeanor tells me they were just evil. Oh, and the tape made by that doctor (Ozeill?) did not mention sexual abuse, according to this Dateline documentary. It also came out that Leslie Abramson, the attorney in the first trial, that resulted in a mistrial, told Dr. Vikory (sp) a therapist, to delete notes that he wrote that could reflect thoughts of premeditated murder. I am glad they are in prison and hope they stay there.

 

[Deleted member 287549]

I strongly disagree that there was no abuse in the Menendez brothers case. Remember, their stories of the abuse were corroborated by family members who witnessed very suspicious things when staying at the house for extended periods of time. Going along with this, if the extended family members believed that the brothers killed the parents just because of the money - I don't believe they would have continued to support the brothers for as long as they have. Note that JM's sister (the boys' aunt) testified that he was abusive & that she believed the brothers.

Also remember - the father was not only abusive but violent, and threatened the brothers' lives if they said anything about the abuse. And, Erik M. wanted to go away to college to escape the abuse, but his father insisted that he stay at home (where the abuse would continue) - despite having more than enough $ so that EM could live on campus.

Also note that if two women had done the same thing to their parents because they said abuse occurred, they would have almost certainly have been believed. But, because two men did it they're thought to be liars - despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Oh yeah, we know that only women get abused like this....Give me a break.

People that say abuse like this doesn't exist are part of the problem.

 

[ilovewings]

I strongly disagree that there was no abuse in the Menendez brothers case. Remember, their stories of the abuse were corroborated by family members who witnessed very suspicious things when staying at the house for extended periods of time. Going along with this, if the extended family members believed that the brothers killed the parents just because of the money - I don't believe they would have continued to support the brothers for as long as they have. Note that JM's sister (the boys' aunt) testified that he was abusive & that she believed the brothers.

Also remember - the father was not only abusive but violent, and threatened the brothers' lives if they said anything about the abuse. And, Erik M. wanted to go away to college to escape the abuse, but his father insisted that he stay at home (where the abuse would continue) - despite having more than enough $ so that EM could live on campus.

Also note that if two women had done the same thing to their parents because they said abuse occurred, they would have almost certainly have been believed. But, because two men did it they're thought to be liars - despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Oh yeah, we know that only women get abused like this....Give me a break.

People that say abuse like this doesn't exist are part of the problem.

So let's say there was that extreme abuse-----
Why didn't both boys leave the home -------just get out go get jobs
-- their father insisted they stay at home??? If
The abuse was that horrific, they could have left the home---
But no, they stayed at home and killed their parents, and the
Murder of their mother wax especially horrific

Why did they stay? They were spoiled rich kids
Get a job? Nope
They liked the money good old dad brought home

And after they killed their parents they went on a lavish spending spree

 

[sds71]

Roy Rosselló, a former member of Menudo, the boy band of the 1980s that became a global sensation, is coming forward with an allegation that he was sexually assaulted as a teenager by Jose Menendez.

The assertion was aired on Tuesday in a segment on the “Today” show that outlined some of the findings of a three-part docuseries scheduled to air on Peacock, the streaming service from NBCUniversal, beginning on May 2. The series, “Menendez + Menudo: Boys Betrayed,” based on reporting by the journalists Robert Rand and Nery Ynclan, is largely focused on Mr. Rosselló. He describes an encounter with Mr. Menendez but also recounts separate incidents of sexual abuse that he says were inflicted on him by one of Menudo’s former managers when he sang as part of the group.

Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers (Published 2023)

The allegation, made in a forthcoming docuseries, resembles the claims of abuse by the brothers, who were convicted in 1996 of murdering their parents.

www.nytimes.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648336453842219008

 

[Noirdame79]

So let's say there was that extreme abuse-----
Why didn't both boys leave the home -------just get out go get jobs
-- their father insisted they stay at home??? If
The abuse was that horrific, they could have left the home---
But no, they stayed at home and killed their parents, and the
Murder of their mother wax especially horrific

Why did they stay? They were spoiled rich kids
Get a job? Nope
They liked the money good old dad brought home

And after they killed their parents they went on a lavish spending spree

Many victims of abuse feel that they can't leave. Their parents had controlled them throughout their lives, and childhood abuse literally changes how the brain develops. They feared that their parents would kill them to keep the family secrets safe.

The money they spent after the deaths of their parents did not come from the estate, it was from an insurance policy that they had no idea they were going to receive, and honestly, spending money like that wasn't a new experience for them.

 

[Noirdame79]

Roy Rosselló, a former member of Menudo, the boy band of the 1980s that became a global sensation, is coming forward with an allegation that he was sexually assaulted as a teenager by Jose Menendez.

The assertion was aired on Tuesday in a segment on the “Today” show that outlined some of the findings of a three-part docuseries scheduled to air on Peacock, the streaming service from NBCUniversal, beginning on May 2. The series, “Menendez + Menudo: Boys Betrayed,” based on reporting by the journalists Robert Rand and Nery Ynclan, is largely focused on Mr. Rosselló. He describes an encounter with Mr. Menendez but also recounts separate incidents of sexual abuse that he says were inflicted on him by one of Menudo’s former managers when he sang as part of the group.

Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers (Published 2023)

The allegation, made in a forthcoming docuseries, resembles the claims of abuse by the brothers, who were convicted in 1996 of murdering their parents.

www.nytimes.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648336453842219008

Robert Rand (who covered both trials and published a book on the case in 2017) has been investigating this for decades.

Here's a video about the upcoming documentary; you can hear Rand telling the brothers over the phone about this latest development and you can hear their reactions:

People really need to watch the first trial (which is available on Court TV's website, and there is a youtube channel, Menendeztrials, which has it uploaded in segments) to really get a complete picture. The money motive was debunked, the prosecution's case was extremely weak, while the defense had corroborative testimony (from family, friends, teachers, and coaches) and expert testimony, as well as photographs and medical records. Neither the brothers nor their attorneys ever said that the killing of their parents was justified; after years of abuse and threats, they believed that their parents would kill them, that no one could protect them and no one would believe them, and given how powerful their father was, that's not surprising. In the second trial, much of the defense evidence was blocked or severely limited to ensure a conviction.

 

[Noirdame79]

I'm sure I mentioned this way back in this thread but in the book Blood Brothers by Ron Soble and John Johnson (two reporters who covered the first trial), Steve Wax, who was a consultant of Jose Menendez, stated that he joked about the Menudo sexual abuse allegations shortly before his death.

 

[Noirdame79]

News article from 1994 during the first trial juries' deliberation

 

[Noirdame79]

This is a brief excerpt from a 1988 interview with Jose Menendez. There's just something so frightening and intense about him, even in that brief moment where you hear him laugh while his back was to the camera.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Menendez Brothers Say New 'Menudo' Evidence Backs Up Sex Abuse Allegations Against Dad

The Menendez Brothers say they have new evidence backing up their claims that their father was sexually abusing them.

www.tmz.com

 

[ilovewings]

Menendez Brothers Say New 'Menudo' Evidence Backs Up Sex Abuse Allegations Against Dad

The Menendez Brothers say they have new evidence backing up their claims that their father was sexually abusing them.

www.tmz.com

Even if there was sex abuse- murder was not the appropriate solution-- they could have left the home - they could have gone to the police. They cold-bloodedly murdered their parents and went on a spending spree-- I hope they stay right where they are.

 

[Noirdame79]

Even if there was sex abuse- murder was not the appropriate solution-- they could have left the home - they could have gone to the police. They cold-bloodedly murdered their parents and went on a spending spree-- I hope they stay right where they are.

They never said, at any time, that they had the right to kill their parents. They've never justified it. They were afraid that their parents would kill them; they saw it as a "kill or be killed" situation, which means that it should have been prosecuted as a manslaughter case.

As for the "spending spree", nothing that they spent came from the estate, everything they bought was approved of by their relatives. Lyle, in particular, had always spent a lot of money. For them, that was normal. They grew up with wealth.

The "they could have left/gone to the police" argument, is just not that simple. People of all ages have killed their abusers out of fear. When a person tries to leave an abusive situation, that's often the most dangerous time, and leaving is not a guarantee of safety. Abusers have killed their victims after they leave, and this is what the brothers also feared. Jose Menendez was a wealthy, powerful man, they didn't believe that they could successfully get away from him. Given that this happened in 1989, it's highly unlikely that the police would have believed them - if they weren't believed during the trials, what makes you think they would have been believed prior to that?

Watching the first trial is vitally important to understanding the case. This case has been distorted so much in the media (and by the prosecutors and pro-prosecution people such as the late Dominick Dunne, who frequently lied in interviews), so by watching that, you'll see the evidence, the expert testimony, and the weakness of the prosecution's case. They were unable to prove any of their theories, which was why the second time around the prosecution and judge did everything in their power to block and/or limit evidence to ensure a conviction.

In both trials, the prosecution tried to claim that Jose and Kitty were loving parents who didn't abuse their children and that Jose never sexually abused his sons. Roy Rossello coming forward destroys the prosecution's argument, which means that the Menendez brothers should not have been convicted of first-degree murder. Manslaughter would have been the appropriate sentence, which still would have resulted in a lengthy prison term. They were not going to "get off".

 

[ifindedout]

Menendez brothers’ attorney wants convictions expunged, citing bombshell letter as new evidence

Erik and Lyle Menendez have two new pieces of evidence backing their claim their father was molesting them, according to their attorney Mark Geragos. This comes in the wake of an explosive new docu…

ktla.com

Geragos said both pieces of evidence show that the exclusion of abuse in the second trial was wrong and thinks if the jury had heard all the evidence, the brothers wouldn’t be in jail. When asked what he wants, Geragos said he wants the brothers’ record expunged.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Menendez brothers could get a NEW trial for gunning down their parents

The Menendez brothers, Erik and Lyle, may get a new trial after a letter Erik wrote to his cousin months before the murders of Jose and Kitty resurfaced. It appears to support claims that the boys were abused

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Noirdame79]

The prosecution's arguments have not aged well, especially in light of recent events. David Conn insisting that Jose would never sexually abuse his sons, or he and the other prosecutors insinuating that any physical and emotional abuse was just "discipline" is nauseating. It also speaks volumes that Pamela Bozanich (nee Ferraro) was one of the prosecutors in the second McMartin preschool trial, a case that has been deemed responsible for playing a large role in the "Satanic Panic". Children were influenced and coached into making false abuse allegations, and even stated that they had seen witches fly, had been flushed down toilets to secret rooms, etc, and despite losing that case, Bozanich still insists that the children, in that case, were abused, yet she finds the notion that Jose and Kitty Menendez sexually abused their sons to be "unbelievable". She can't stay away from interviews about the Menendez case, despite the fact that she and her co-counsel failed to get a conviction in the first trial and that they were unprepared and extremely ignorant.

 

[Noirdame79]

Pamela Bozanich had been the prosecutor in a couple of high-profile cases, the first being the McMartin Pre-School Trial

McMartin Pre-School Trial​

Pamela Bozanich previously served as a prosecutor in the McMartin Preschool case. An infamous example of Satanic Panic and improper questioning of child witnesses, and the most expensive trial in American history.

The children, in that case, accused the defendants of flushing them down toilets into secret rooms, that they had the ability to fly, and that Chuck Norris was there.

Menendez Case​

Bozanich was assigned as lead prosecutor for the Menendez Murder trial. Her co-attorney was Lester Kuriyama.

Prosecution’s Theory​

The prosecution argued Lyle and Erik Menendez carried out a pre-meditated murder of their parents. Although their proposed motivation changed several times throughout the trial.

They were unable to prove financial gain as a motive, but the press latched on to the theory and it is still commonly believed.

Pamela unsuccessfully tried to prove Lyle was lying about his abuse testimony and tried to portray him as a manipulative sociopath. During the trial, she told the press that Lyle was acting when he'd testified about being raped by his father.

Statements​

• She argued with a forensic expert who determined the crime scene showed an unplanned crime, by comparing the crime scene to a poorly planned wedding.
• She asked Lyle Menendez if he considered buying a knife for self-defense. This, of course, makes no sense, because Jose was much larger and stronger than Lyle, and he and his wife both owned guns.
• She argued that Lyle couldn't have been abused because of all the things his parents had bought for him.
• She argued with psychologist Dr. Ann Tyler by asking "Did they have a bed? Did they have food?" in an attempt to dismiss her expert testimony the brothers had been abused.
• She asked Dr. Ann Tyler if they had been locked in a closet, seemingly forgetting Erik's testimony that he had indeed been locked in a closet.
• Tried to portray Judalon Smyth as a lover scorned, and asked if she'd wanted to have children with Dr. Oziel. Judalon replied that she did not want children who looked like Dr. Oziel.
• Circular arguments that Lyle's abusive upbringing had prepared him to lie, therefore he was lying about being abused.
• Argued that “men could not be raped because they lack the necessary equipment to be raped”.

Witnesses​

Pamela Bozanich put on several witnesses who were proven to have lied, or who directly contradict her other witnesses.

• Detective Valentine: Proven to have lied about seeing Lyle Menendez at the US Open, based on plane tickets and boarding passes of Lyle's. Contradicted prosecuting witness Pat Heffernan.
• Jamie Pisarcik: Proven to have lied based on her work records
• Donovan Goodreau: Proven to have lied based on Robert Rand tape
• Dr. Oziel: Proven to have lied based on Judalon Smyth's tapes

Aftermath​

The first trial ended in a mistrial, and the brothers were retried. Bozanich however, did not return as prosecutor for the second trial and was replaced by David Conn.

Bozanich has done interviews due to her involvement in the Menendez case. During the ABC 20/20 special Truth and Lies: The Menendez Brothers- American Sons American Murderers, Bozanich expressed her belief that the brothers made up the sexual abuse accusations, as well as her belief that family members lied for the brothers to protect them from receiving the death penalty.

She has also stated that life imprisonment is an appropriate punishment for the brothers and that she hopes they live a very long life.

Pamela Bozanich

" One kid killing the parents is a bad seed, two kids killing the parents is a bad family ."-Bozanich during an interview for the 2017, ABC 20/20 special Pamela Ann Bozanich (née Ferrero; born April 7, 1954) is a retired Prosecuting Attorney and the prosecutor of Lyle Menendez. Bozanich was born...

menendez-brothers.fandom.com

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

 

[ilovewings]

For me, even if what the Menendez brothers say is true, that they were molested and even felt threatened, please tell me why they didn't leave the home instead of carrying out such a horrifying and brutal murder. I am unmoved. sorry. I believe they are where they belong. Were they imminently threatened at the moment they actually viciously murdered their parents? I am thinking not.

 

[Noirdame79]

For me, even if what the Menendez brothers say is true, that they were molested and even felt threatened, please tell me why they didn't leave the home instead of carrying out such a horrifying and brutal murder. I am unmoved. sorry. I believe they are where they belong. Were they imminently threatened at the moment they actually viciously murdered their parents? I am thinking not.

Many victims of abuse feel they can't leave. Their parents controlled everything. They knew that their father was a powerful man who had the resources to track them down in if they left; they didn't think they could successfully escape their parents, nor did they think anyone would believe them. There are people who kill their abusers out of fear, and they often do so when the abuser is vulnerable because the victim knows that they can't defend themselves during a confrontation, but that does not mean that the abuser has not been or is not a threat to them.

The brothers stated that they believed that their parents were going to kill them that night. They realized after the fact that they were mistaken but they still believe that it would have happened at some point. Jose was not going to let his sons live to expose the abuse or to leave, because he would be ruined and he would lose control over them. Kitty was Jose's partner in abusing their children and she too, would not have wanted the truth to come out. Lyle stated that he believed that their parents would kill him and Erik, and then tell people that they ran away - which is not far-fetched when you consider domestic homicides that have been covered up.

Manslaughter would have been an appropriate conviction in this case - 25 years - 10 years for each parent, plus a weapon charge - which means that the Menendez brothers were not going to "get off". That's the misconception that many people have about this case - neither the brothers nor their attorneys ever claimed that the killings were justified, or that the parents deserved to die. They were just trying to explain why it happened.