GUILTY CA - Ellorah Warner, 3 wks, Santa Clarita, 23 Jan 2015

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The situation was a win-win for him. He had a guaranteed place to stay despite the troubles with her mother, didn't have to work (or so he thought - taking care of a newborn is not easy) and it secured a different form of power for him over her. He's 'effing disgusting. uke:

Except there is no proof of any DV is there? This is a theory???

I don't see anything about DV or anything. I still think this could have been accidental. At least I am holding out hope.

 

[tlcya]

no there is no proof of DV - no photos of black eyes - no police reports (that we know of). But there is a criminal history and a live in MIL who claims she had issues with him and states he broke a window to regain entry in the past when she and the baby's mother had attempted to lock him out of the home.

No proof. But indicators that DV IPV is a POSSIBLE factor enough to come into theorization IMO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

no there is no proof of DV - no photos of black eyes - no police reports (that we know of). But there is a criminal history and a live in MIL who claims she had issues with him and states he broke a window to regain entry in the past when she and the baby's mother had attempted to lock him out of the home.

No proof. But indicators that DV IPV is a POSSIBLE factor enough to come into theorization IMO.

No police reports so the report is just MIL word for it? Her grandchild was just killed so I don't know how valid her stories are after the fact.

I would think that if someone broke my window I would have called the cops.

Where was MIL that night?

 

[MsMarple]

With so little current information it seems that something is amiss with the time line and the mom's reaction. I'll reserve judgment for now but I do have questions.

When Allison's daughter came home from work, the couple talked and at about 9:30 p.m. went to the sheriff's station to report the child missing.

They talked? About what? Mom comes home, finds her newborn missing and the first thing she does is have a talk with dad instead of rushing to the police. Something is missing here.

Also, is there a time gap between mom arriving home from work and the couple going to the police station? Msm doesn't say what time she got home so maybe she works very late hours in her daycare job.

And why didn't the grandmother call the mom after she called the police? She said she tried to call her daughter after finding the breast milk untouched but when she discovered the phone line disconnected she went to a neighbor's house and called the police. If she was concerned enough to call the police why wouldn't she also notify her daughter?

Allison had a rocky relationship with Warner, who had dated her daughter for about two years. He had been in jail and didn't have a job, she said.

This may be irrelevant but if I was talking to the press about my daughter's no-good boyfriend I'd make sure to point out if he was violent or controlling. His not having a job would be lower on the list of my complaints.

I'm smelling some hink but for now I'll chalk it up to LE needing to keep the details quiet as they investigate.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0125-missing-baby-20150125-story.html

 

[borndem]

wow. They look so normal and that baby was so well taken care of. She looked so cosy and comfy. And he seemed so thrilled to be a daddy. Yesterdays message was about making baked tuna sandwiches for lunch. So different from the baby Owen case where the parents were obvious meth heads and mean and negligent. I just don't understand this case so far. What happened?

I'm just now reading this case, so this question may be answered as I go along, but anyway...

What happened?
It may be the all-too-familiar problem of baby crying, crying, crying -- even a 3-week-old can crank it up pretty well -- Daddy was trying everything he knew to quiet her and to get that dayam noise out of the home... He threw her or he shook her or he hit her and she was gone. Babies are pretty tuff, but not against someone who has lost his/her temper, may be tired, and also mad at mommy for not being there to fix it. He was sick of it, and he lashed out at the greatest gift someone can ever receive. The beautiful one-of-a-kind treasure of that little girl was gone. She floated up where there are already too many littlest angels.

It may seem cruel, but parenting classes cover baby-will-not-stop-crying -- After you have held her & walked her and tried to comfort her -- If baby seems healthy and is not in some type of crisis, put the baby in her crib and close the door to that room. That should prevent someone from committing horrible abuse and/or murder. Certainly check her in a few minutes when you have cooled down and if you think you can handle it. SMH.

No mercy, no mitigation, sock it to him. DP. Unless something really weird happened, and seems to me, if it had, daddy would have explained it -- She just quit breathing, or she choked on something -- but in that case the little girl would still be at home.

What is wrong with people?

 

[kaen]

My speculation is that when the mom came home from work the talk was centered on him saying the baby was safe and her pleading to get the baby back rather than him admitting that she was missing. And, I think the grandmother was keeping out of the conversation as she was part of his frustration and why he said he left with the baby earlier. I imagine that as time went on he started to describe that the baby was taken from him possibly due to illicit activity like drug purchasing. The mom was probably trying to get information without further making him mad and never finding her daughter. The travel to the police station was most likely a way give him a chance to control the story, even though the mom knew that there might be something else going on. Certainly the grandmother knew something was very amiss.

I also speculate that the mom and grandmother knew he was doing drugs again.

If he is a controlling man, I would guess that he has asserted his power this way before and the two women had seen it at play.

 

[MsMarple]

My speculation is that when the mom came home from work the talk was centered on him saying the baby was safe and her pleading to get the baby back rather than him admitting that she was missing. And, I think the grandmother was keeping out of the conversation as she was part of his frustration and why he said he left with the baby earlier. I imagine that as time went on he started to describe that the baby was taken from him possibly due to illicit activity like drug purchasing. The mom was probably trying to get information without further making him mad and never finding her daughter. The travel to the police station was most likely a way give him a chance to control the story, even though the mom knew that there might be something else going on. Certainly the grandmother knew something was very amiss.

I also speculate that the mom and grandmother knew he was doing drugs again.

If he is a controlling man, I would guess that he has asserted his power this way before and the two women had seen it at play.

Interesting thoughts, thanks!

In a case like you described it makes sense that the mom would have been suspicious, terrified and willing to do whatever it took to "cooperate" with MW in order to get her baby back safe and sound. Once she was at the police station she could freely relate what he said. Perhaps that's why LE was able to zoom in on him so quickly.

 

[TTF14]

I'm thinking mom probably thought the safest thing was to get herself physically inside of the police station. Who knows what state of mind this was in, how strung out or whatever. The home phone was disconnected, who knows about cell phones but perhaps they shared one and it was either dead or she told him it was, to convince him to physically walk to the police station to report the baby "missing," when she fully intended to get herself in a safe place in order to then start freaking out about her suspicions .

 

[mrsobrien]

Interesting that MW changed FB to say "married " to the mama in march 2014. Her reply is, "Really?"

This makes much more sense now that we know they were not married at all.

 

[mrsobrien]

I honestly don't think I could survive this. I would want to die .

Same here. I honestly think I would die from this. At three weeks post partum, the primal birth euphoria is still very much present, a very delicate and sacred time. You're supposed to be with your baby while you heal (TW is likely still bleeding from the birth and having contractions), establish a breastfeeding relationship, sleep.... To deal with all this...it would kill me I think.

 

[tlcya]

No police reports so the report is just MIL word for it? Her grandchild was just killed so I don't know how valid her stories are after the fact.

I would think that if someone broke my window I would have called the cops.

Where was MIL that night?

last page there are several articles linked which state that MIL lives with them, was home, got concerned about his behaviors, acting strange, tried to call her daughter (mommy) at work and he severed the phone line. She phoned police from a neighbor's home and by the time they arrived MW had left the premise with a "bundle" in his hands.


LE confirms that they were called to the residence around 7 pm by MIL regarding a problem with MW. By 9:30 pm MW and E's mommy were walking in to report the baby missing.

 

[MamaJoJo]

last page there are several articles linked which state that MIL lives with them, was home, got concerned about his behaviors, acting strange, tried to call her daughter (mommy) at work and he severed the phone line. She phoned police from a neighbor's home and by the time they arrived MW had left the premise with a "bundle" in his hands.


LE confirms that they were called to the residence around 7 pm by MIL regarding a problem with MW. By 9:30 pm MW and E's mommy were walking in to report the baby missing.

And we also know that the MIL came back to the apartment after calling LE (presumably met LE there) and found that MW and the baby were no longer there. What is still up for clarification is what happened between 7:00pm and 9:35pm when E was reported missing.

Did the MIL stay at the apartment waiting for MW to come back or TW to get back from work? I know I'd not want to be at the apartment alone after getting the police involved.
Did the MIL continue to try to reach TW by phone (from a neighbors)?
Presumably the MIL has a car. Did she try to intercept TW before she returned from work?
When did MW get home?
When did TW get home?
How long did the "talk"?
Was anyone else in on the "talk"?

WHAT TRANSPIRED IN THAT TIME PERIOD?!?!?

I believe all of the assumptions at this point about MW being a control freak, DV, low life. What I can't understand is how the decision was made to report E missing. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to WALK anywhere with MW if I thought he had just killed my baby. Would I be next? Would I kill him on the way? How TW had the foresight and ability to manipulate him into going to the police station, if beyond me.

 

[TTF14]

And we also know that the MIL came back to the apartment after calling LE (presumably met LE there) and found that MW and the baby were no longer there. What is still up for clarification is what happened between 7:00pm and 9:35pm when E was reported missing.

Did the MIL stay at the apartment waiting for MW to come back or TW to get back from work? I know I'd not want to be at the apartment alone after getting the police involved.
Did the MIL continue to try to reach TW by phone (from a neighbors)?
Presumably the MIL has a car. Did she try to intercept TW before she returned from work?
When did MW get home?
When did TW get home?
How long did the "talk"?
Was anyone else in on the "talk"?

WHAT TRANSPIRED IN THAT TIME PERIOD?!?!?

I believe all of the assumptions at this point about MW being a control freak, DV, low life. What I can't understand is how the decision was made to report E missing. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to WALK anywhere with MW if I thought he had just killed my baby. Would I be next? Would I kill him on the way? How TW had the foresight and ability to manipulate him into going to the police station, if beyond me.

I suspect the conversation that took place was her trying to convince him that if the baby was indeed missing/kidnapped, they HAD to report her missing to the police. After a while he probably saw that was true and figured it would make him look less suspicious. I doubt she believed any word he was saying, but didn't want to risk him running away . This is all my speculation.

 

[tlcya]

And we also know that the MIL came back to the apartment after calling LE (presumably met LE there) and found that MW and the baby were no longer there. What is still up for clarification is what happened between 7:00pm and 9:35pm when E was reported missing.

Did the MIL stay at the apartment waiting for MW to come back or TW to get back from work? I know I'd not want to be at the apartment alone after getting the police involved.
Good question and point, that disabling phone service would be really concerning to me.

Did the MIL continue to try to reach TW by phone (from a neighbors)?
Also good question. Another question of mine is what were mom's regular expected work hours that day and did she come home early or as scheduled.

Presumably the MIL has a car. Did she try to intercept TW before she returned from work?
Not sure MIL has a car, haven't seen any indication. Don't know her age, if she herself works or is retired, on fixed income, etc. All of that would probably play into the answers to the car and what did mom do or not could do or not that evening.

When did MW get home?
When did TW get home?
How long did the "talk"?
Was anyone else in on the "talk"?

WHAT TRANSPIRED IN THAT TIME PERIOD?!?!?
Big ole honkin YEP YEP YEP YEP I want to know these things too.

I believe all of the assumptions at this point about MW being a control freak, DV, low life. I am heavily leaning that way as well but open to that not being the case.

What I can't understand is how the decision was made to report E missing. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to WALK anywhere with MW if I thought he had just killed my baby. Maybe she thought he had hidden the baby away or handed her off to someone and by letting him call the shots and playing along it would end with her being reunited with her baby. I see nothing to indicate she thought at that point that he killed their child. I think part of her cooperation may have been based on thinking he knows where our child is. If I do not cooperate and keep him in sight then what stops him from going and retrieving our child and disappearing with her?


Would I be next? Would I kill him on the way? How TW had the foresight and ability to manipulate him into going to the police station, if beyond me. If the let's walk to the station and report our baby missing was her idea in order to keep him in her sight and get herself to the safest possible place to relay her concerns it was brilliant. MOO

Using yours to jump off. Inserting my thoughts in red within your quote respectfully. Thanks for a good post.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Toddler found dead in pickup truck ID'd as Ellorah Rose Warner - MyNewsLA.com

2 hours ago

(snip)

Ellorah Rose Warner will be the subject of a coroner’s report to be completed Sunday, and her remains will have an autopsy, likely on Monday, said Coroner’s Lt. Fred Corral.



http://mynewsla.com/crime/2015/01/25/toddler-found-dead-pickup-truck-idd-ellorah-rose-warner/


:rose:


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[newone]

Newhall Father Arrested for Allegedly Killing His 3-Week-Old Daughter | KTLA

Image via KTLA

Also, last night's news report, embedded in the LA Times story posted upthread & 2 other embedded videos & MuchMore@Link:

http://ktla.com/2015/01/24/sheriffs-deputies-helicopters-search-for-missing-3-week-old-newhall-baby/

#RIPEllorah




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according to the video his two felonies were drug related and for stealing vehicles.


that photo makes me cry -- beautiful bright baby girl........

 

[tlcya]

The recovering addict thing was something that I was suspecting from the FB page that first day but didn't want to put it out there feeling like vague suspicions were not enough for me to be comfortable to speculate on. And also I did not want to appear to be vilifying someone just for a past history of drugs. Many of our own members have a history that contains substance and/or alcohol abuse. They bring valuable input to many of the cases here. So I sort of sat that part of the discussion out when we were picking apart MW FB page.

The possible IPV controlling stuff others were picking up on I was oblivious to. But the addict thing, yeah, it was all right there IMO so I guess his arrest history supports that a bit more than my own vague red flags.

Also, depending on his drug of choice, it could factor into mood, temperament, aggression, etc. So now that it is established that there is a history of drug use. I guess I am all in on that topic as well.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Thank you Mods for adding Baby Ellorah Rose's name to her thread.

She has captured my heart - and the hearts of many I am certain - in her incredibly short time here on this earth.

Her journey from creation, to gaining her angel wings, was incredibly brief. I just read that her birthday was January 5th - one day after my own BabyGirl. Another parallel that serves as a personal and painful reminder for me in this case.

I've made her a solemn promise, as I placed flowers into the sea after church this morning with my girls, that she would never be forgotten. We will be in SoCal visiting family soon, and if her memorial is open to the public, I will do my best to personally attend.

No child should ever have to pay such a heavy price for the violent dynamics between adults. Ellorah Rose will always be a reminder of how fragile life can be, and that it is our duty to follow our instincts to protect our most vulnerable - and that second chances aren't always guaranteed.

As I watched the petals being washed out to sea, tears flowed for so many reasons. I hope Baby Ellorah is at complete peace, surrounded by all the grace and love she so richly deserves.

It did NOT have to end this way. :cry:

Rest in everlasting peace, beautiful BabyGirl....

raying:
:candle:

#RIPEllorah

:rose:


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[kaen]

"No police reports so the report is just MIL word for it? Her grandchild was just killed so I don't know how valid her stories are after the fact. "

The police have stated that they received a call from the grandmother that was not related to the missing child report.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I keep hping to come back and find an explanation that makes sense. Even though I know that is not possible.