GUILTY CA - Ellorah Warner, 3 wks, Santa Clarita, 23 Jan 2015

[katydid23]

So hard to imagine how painful this is for grandma and mommy. :rose:

 

[cygnus]

1/2 mile from their apartment not far at all - in another parking lot

Yes, I too think it was just a car (truck) that he found in the lot that happened to be unlocked - that was my thought from the get-go. Plus, half a mile - easily a ten minute (or less walk) and an even quicker jog back with no baby in tow.

 

[nikb]

Yes, I too think it was just a car (truck) that he found in the lot that happened to be unlocked - that was my thought from the get-go. Plus, half a mile - easily a ten minute (or less walk) and an even quicker jog back with no baby in tow.

That's what I keep thinking too. I mean from his criminal history he obviously had no problem taking a vehicle - locked or not but I assume he'd prefer unlocked, and without an alarm. So scary. Can you imagine heading back to your car and - oops! - there's a deceased child inside?

 

[mrsobrien]

Has anyone seen anything about TW being cleared? I very much want to believe she is innocent in this.

 

[cygnus]

That's what I keep thinking too. I mean from his criminal history he obviously had no problem taking a vehicle - locked or not but I assume he'd prefer unlocked, and without an alarm. So scary. Can you imagine heading back to your car and - oops! - there's a deceased child inside?

Yep I agree - and I have read all of the threads on this story but I didn't see any mention of who the truck belongs to, has LE spoken to that person? Do we know anything from that angle?

 

[matou]

"I think the baby's body is here," he told investigators, NBC Los Angeles reports.

He couldn't be more detached, IMO.

"The baby's body": she was placed already dead in the truck.
"I think": What does he think, that he isn't sure or is completely disconnected to his own child?
"The baby": He doesn't even use her name. She is called "the baby's body."

I'm worried about what happened here. What the **** did he do to her? I don't think she drowned in a bath. The grandma called police just a few hours before MW and her daughter went to the station. Why did she call? He was apparently acting hyper. There must have been direct violence to the baby. Not feeding her the bottles wouldn't have killed her IMO. She would have cried to be fed. Her cries were weak. Was she covered in a blanket? a pillow?

 

[kimi_SFC]

wasn't he arrested in WASCO county....there's a Wasco County in Oregon....truck might have been his??

They were at the hospital the day (unsure of the time) Ellorah was born without transpiration. I recall a post about that. :dunno:

Then another mentioning Mom had a reaction to a medication. It actually infuriated me. He took credit for the birth (announcing her stats, that she's feisty like her dad , then oh, btw, Mom's ok/fine - I'm paraphrasing).

Go back to January 5th / 6th. Her actual new baby pic was posted within a comment thread.

:gaah:




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[ScarlettScarpetta]

They were at the hospital the day (unsure of the time) Ellorah was born without transpiration. I recall a post about that. :dunno:

Then another mentioning Mom had a reaction to a medication. It actually infuriated me. He took credit for the birth (announcing her stats, that she's feisty like her dad , then oh, btw, Mom's ok/fine - I'm paraphrasing).

Go back to January 5th / 6th. Her actual new baby pic was posted within a comment thread.

:gaah:




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Why would that infuriate you? I don't understand. It seems normal. I have heard lots of Dad's say similar things directly after birth..

I don't know. I am all for getting him for what he did, but I don't like adding things to the story that really are not part of the charges.

 

[newone]

They were at the hospital the day (unsure of the time) Ellorah was born without transpiration. I recall a post about that. :dunno:

Then another mentioning Mom had a reaction to a medication. It actually infuriated me. He took credit for the birth (announcing her stats, that she's feisty like her dad , then oh, btw, Mom's ok/fine - I'm paraphrasing).

Go back to January 5th / 6th. Her actual new baby pic was posted within a comment thread.

:gaah:

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MY MISTAKE

sorry for confusing the information that mugshot link was actually for Wasco CA Not Wasco County (Oregon)

I just deleted my post when I checked the thread for verification

 

[kimi_SFC]

MY MISTAKE

sorry for confusing the information that mugshot link was actually for Wasco CA Not Wasco County (Oregon)

I just deleted my post when I checked the thread for verification

Not sure if I should delete my response or not. This was actually mentioned previously (not having a car).

Thanks for clarifying the issue about the counties is different states.


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[abugs]

http://www.signalscv.com/section/36/article/132228/

“She’s not stopped crying since that day,” April Gunckel told The Signal Monday. “She’s definitely struggling and not taking it so easily.”

What would help the mother, she said, is for the rumors and speculation surrounding her baby’s death to stop.

“One person has been charged for a reason,” Gunckel said. “She (Wallace) is regretful for leaving the baby in (Warner’s) care.”

 

[mrsobrien]

http://www.signalscv.com/section/36/article/132228/

“She’s not stopped crying since that day,” April Gunckel told The Signal Monday. “She’s definitely struggling and not taking it so easily.”

What would help the mother, she said, is for the rumors and speculation surrounding her baby’s death to stop.

“One person has been charged for a reason,” Gunckel said. “She (Wallace) is regretful for leaving the baby in (Warner’s) care.”

Sad... FB folks have said some awful things, saying she's to blame for not being there. It's just plain cruelty, imo.

I really do wish we had a media source clearly stating that she's been through interviews and is cleared. I'm sure that woukd help the rumors a bit and also get some of us here off the fence. I am guardedly sympathetic at this point.

 

[kimi_SFC]

http://www.signalscv.com/section/36/article/132228/

“She’s not stopped crying since that day,” April Gunckel told The Signal Monday. “She’s definitely struggling and not taking it so easily.”

What would help the mother, she said, is for the rumors and speculation surrounding her baby’s death to stop.

“One person has been charged for a reason,” Gunckel said. “She (Wallace) is regretful for leaving the baby in (Warner’s) care.”

Look at this beautiful face. How could he?????


:tears:

:rose:


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[newone]

LE is absolutely certain it is homicide. They are awaiting tox results which could take 6-8 wks.

''Coroner’s investigators declined to identify a cause of death for the infant. “The case has been deferred,” a spokesman for the Coroner’s Department said, meaning details of the autopsy are not being disclosed at the request of homicide investigators.''

http://www.signalscv.com/section/36/article/132228/



Again: financial assistance IS available through the county for a myriad of services for the victim including Funeral Costs===officers and victims advocate at LE level would have provided this information to the mom

http://da.co.la.ca.us/vwap/vwap.htm#services

 

[kimi_SFC]

LE is absolutely certain it is homicide. They are awaiting tox results which could take 6-8 wks.

''Coroner’s investigators declined to identify a cause of death for the infant. “The case has been deferred,” a spokesman for the Coroner’s Department said, meaning details of the autopsy are not being disclosed at the request of homicide investigators.''

http://www.signalscv.com/section/36/article/132228/



Again: financial assistance IS available through the county for a myriad of services for the victim including Funeral Costs===officers and victims advocate at LE level would have provided this information to the mom

http://da.co.la.ca.us/vwap/vwap.htm#services

This is true. I am concerned about TW at this juncture, for a myriad of reasons. She has not been named a POI, nor has she been officially cleared by LE. This leaves her vulnerable to the court of public opinion, who is judging her harshly based on media reports of her accompanying MW on the night this all unfolded.

The initial presser, where we heard about the married couple who went to the SCVSS with them, has not been published via MSM. We heard the reporter's question and I posted it here, but the link to the presser's raw footage has been pulled from the SCVSignal site. as to why?

Now, with LE awaiting tox results for weeks, those who believe she was either complicit or negligent as it is - may view this as sinister. :dunno: :fence:

I am hoping this is just SOP. Based on the linked Baby Registry (posted upthread), I can't imagine TW knowingly exposing Ellorah to anything that would show up.

However, she wasn't the only person caring for this child, not exclusively. That makes me sick at the mere thought. I believe the toxicology results may be revealing - and I pray to God they're negative. After Owen Collins' case, I don't think I can bear it happening again, especially to an infant. How would the ME be able to discern the vector of exposure (second hand inhalation versus ...? - I can't even finish typing the sentence! :sick: )

I am hopeful LE will make a statement clearing her soon. However, I am worried it won't happen until the labs are back (or the finalized autopsy report is released - if it isn't sealed).

If she's completely innocent of hurting Ellorah directly - Yes, failure to protect is a crime, but that's another issue - then she's in an indefinite living nightmarish hell for the foreseeable future.

:moo:




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[nikb]

LE is absolutely certain it is homicide. They are awaiting tox results which could take 6-8 wks.<snipped for space>

Not unexpected, but still heartbreaking that they are so sure it's homicide as opposed to an accident.

Are the tox results for the baby, or for the Dad? I assume Ellorah, given the time frame, but that struck me as odd. If it's from drugs, what would be so apparent to them that it's a homicide? And what could he have given her that wasn't in the milk, since she apparently didn't even get the milk? I doubt she would have willingly eaten/drank something that tasted "weird" to her. Ugh. I probably don't even want to know, but I do want justice for Ellorah.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space and BBM>

If she's completely innocent of hurting Ellorah directly - Yes, failure to protect is a crime, but that's another issue - then she's in an indefinite living nightmarish hell for the foreseeable future.

Re: the BBM part - of course we don't know all the details yet, but the picture forming in my head is of a Mom who probably was nervous leaving her baby, but went to work so she COULD feed her child, clothe her, provide a roof over their heads, etc. And perhaps she felt safer that her mother was also there. I'm no legal expert, but I have a hard time seeing that as failing to protect her baby, at least legally. On a personal level, I'm sure she's devastated. Of course I could be totally wrong, but that's my gut feeling at this point. If she had nothing to do with it, I hope that LE will clear the mom sooner rather than later.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Re: the BBM part - of course we don't know all the details yet, but the picture forming in my head is of a Mom who probably was nervous leaving her baby, but went to work so she COULD feed her child, clothe her, provide a roof over their heads, etc. And perhaps she felt safer that her mother was also there. I'm no legal expert, but I have a hard time seeing that as failing to protect her baby, at least legally. On a personal level, I'm sure she's devastated. Of course I could be totally wrong, but that's my gut feeling at this point. If she had nothing to do with it, I hope that LE will clear the mom sooner rather than later.

I completely agree with you.

I've posted about my experiences in this realm in other threads - having worked in a DV shelter I've seen firsthand what happens when LE gets involved in these cases. It really can depend on a case by case basis.



DV occurring in the presence of a child is considered child abuse.
ETA:

It is the Child Welfare Laws in 23 States (California included & Puerto Rico - my apologies):

Child Witnesses to Domestic Violence
https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/witnessdv.pdf

Because of these laws, certain jurisdictions have prosecuted mothers for failure to protect - and things can get dicey. It can actually work against the process of women trying to leave abusive environments in some cases.

Example: She calls 911 - they respond - and before it's all said and done, he's in jail for DV and she's charged with failure to protect.

The DV shelter I extremed at works to actively train local LE so they are better equipped to deal with the dynamic. But they aren't clinicians.

As I've said before, it plays into the cycle of fear and control. The system isn't perfect by any means. I've been on both sides, and it's not pretty.

:twocents:

ETA2: I still believe TW did what she had to do because she was under extreme duress. MW held all the cards. I truly hope the DA takes this into consideration when looking into this case. I've seen nothing to indicate she's anything more than a victim. :moo:


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[kshultz06082]

I see nothing that shows him co sleeping. Only pictures of him holding his sleeping child or laying next to her while she slept.

Ya know, thats what I see too. And I see nothing wrong with moms comments either. The "disturbing" one reads to me like she is a brand new mom and is really just learning the ropes.... nothing sinister. I'm not saying either parent is innocent, but I just dont see where there were any red flags from facebook. I know we are sleuthers, but some things really are just said/done in jest, or show immaturity. Not EVERYTHING has to be sinister. Granted, I have no idea how this case will end (only on page 5 so far), and I may be completely wrong, but so far, with very limited knowledge, I dont see anything that screams COLD HEARTED BABY MURDERER. Yes I know dad has been arrested for murder, but from the info given, I am still praying this was just a horrible, tragic accident and they panicked and made up a story.

 

[kshultz06082]

Ya know, thats what I see too. And I see nothing wrong with moms comments either. The "disturbing" one reads to me like she is a brand new mom and is really just learning the ropes.... nothing sinister. I'm not saying either parent is innocent, but I just dont see where there were any red flags from facebook. I know we are sleuthers, but some things really are just said/done in jest, or show immaturity. Not EVERYTHING has to be sinister. Granted, I have no idea how this case will end (only on page 5 so far), and I may be completely wrong, but so far, with very limited knowledge, I dont see anything that screams COLD HEARTED BABY MURDERER. Yes I know dad has been arrested for murder, but from the info given, I am still praying this was just a horrible, tragic accident and they panicked and made up a story.

Amazing what one page will do... page 6 now, and I am firmly (for the moment) planted in the "let this rot!" camp. I still dont believe the facebook pages threw any red flags though. And I will happily eat the crow if I am wrong.