CA CA - Ember Graham, 7 mos, Happy Valley, 2 July 2015 - #2

[bluesneakers]

It's 3 pm here - I wish we'd get another update.

Me too. I keep refreshing this every few seconds hoping for news.

 

[rosie_lee]

It's 3 pm here - I wish we'd get another update.

I am on EST and I keep looking everywhere for any updates. This is so incredibly sad!

I checked the Shasta County Sheriff Dept Facebook page & pictures of her & of the searchers just brought me to tears :-(


https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1527637610823075

 

[gitana1]

Because voice stress is not admissible in court, and it can be wrong. I would bet he willingly would give a DNA sample.

At this point, he'd be a fool not to lawyer up. Innocent people do refuse stress tests and lie detector tests. Because cops can use that as ONE MORE way to say they have evidence of guilt when they don't.

He's sketchy, that's for sure. If you've ever been around people who are on probation or have been, they're laying low all the time and ducking cops.

Well, if it's not admissible in court then the cops can't use it in court. I know you say innocent people refuse lie detector tests. That's typically not the truth. The behavior of innocent parents of missing children is to do anything possible, whatever they're asked, to find their child, including ruling themselves out. We've seen that over and over as heard that from dad's who have gone through it like Marc Klaas, John Walsh, Jessica Lunsford's dad, Elizabeth Smart's father.

The profile of an innocent parent is one of extreme desperation and a willingness to do whatever it takes and whatever is asked of them.

There is is not one single thing in this case that speaks of MG's innocence as way too much pointing to his guilt.

And lest anyone forget, remember all the photos of Casey Antjony smiling and hugging and holding her daughter? The video of them playing on the floor and of her mom giving her raspberries?

[video=youtu;ZPUXPEBeapc]http://youtu.be/ZPUXPEBeapc[/video]

Who knows if murdering parents loved their kids and then stopped or simply knew how they were supposed to act but never really loved their child at all?

 

[Mrs.g]

I'm not ruling anything out but I wonder if maybe someone that knew of the situation (drugs, trailer, the baby with special needs) took her or had someone take her? Pure speculation on my part...

 

[sunflowerchick]

Well, if it's not admissible in court then the cops can't use it in court. I know you say innocent people refuse lie detector tests "all the time". That's not the truth. The behavior of innocent parents of missing children is to do anything possible, whatever they're asked, to find their child, including ruling themselves out.

SBM

With all due respect, I would like to offer my opinion. I certainly appreciate your expertise, but I think you tend to view things from the legal angle rather than the opinion of those with absolutely NO legal knowledge whatsoever.

I can't say what I would do in the case of a missing child and I hope I never have the opportunity to find out. But I think one of the first things I would do would be to call a lawyer, (after notifying LE of course), if for no other reason than to speak for me and my family. I would NEVER, under any circumstance, submit to a lie detector, voice stress or any other inadmissible test for the very fact that if they are asking, they suspect something.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

Since CA has a terrible drought, would this huge creek/river in Ono, CA, be all dried-up now?

 

[MsMarple]

They're still searching:

More than 100 people are combing the hilly terrain along and off of Platina Road southwest of Ono, searching for clues.

Support is coming from Shasta County, Tehama County, Lassen County, Siskiyou County, San Mateo County, Alameda County, Mendocino County, Solano County, State Office of Emergency Services, El Dorado County, Napa County, Yuba County, Marin County, Placer County, Calaveras County, CARDA (K-9), and San Benito County.

http://www.redding.com/news/local-n...ng-baby-case-take-authorities-to-ono_80945585

 

[LadyL]

Since CA has a terrible drought, would this huge creek/river in Ono, CA, be all dried-up now?View attachment 77965

good point - I wonder if the drought has been helpful at all in terms of searching

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

do we know she supplied him with a 5-gallon jug? I was visualizing a pan of water but yeah if it's a jug with a handle, he could probably manage it

I wonder if he stopped for water for Ember's bottles? Maybe a gallon jug? That's eight pounds in one hand and then a sixteen pound baby in the others.

 

[LadyL]

No, I don't know for sure about a 5-gallon jug, per se; but if he had to do this several times a day, every day, I'd imagine that it was some kind of convenient container.

true

my problem is I know nothing about how-to-live with whatever system requires going to the neighbours for water

another question is - would he also need to borrow water for that swamp cooling thing he said was running that evening?

ETA - I just saw someone's post that does use water for her swamp cooler unit

 

[gitana1]

SBM

With all due respect, I would like to offer my opinion. I certainly appreciate your expertise, but I think you tend to view things from the legal angle rather than the opinion of those with absolutely NO legal knowledge whatsoever.

I can't say what I would do in the case of a missing child and I hope I never have the opportunity to find out. But I think one of the first things I would do would be to call a lawyer, (after notifying LE of course), if for no other reason than to speak for me and my family. I would NEVER, under any circumstance, submit to a lie detector, voice stress or any other inadmissible test for the very fact that if they are asking, they suspect something.

You would be the exception to the rule. Innocent parents of missing kids are desperate and do whatever it takes. And that is far from the legal point of view. That's the humanity point of view. It's how LE profiles. We all know there are human behavioral norms. Lawyering up and refusing to cooperate is not normal behavior. That's the starting point.

Is it possible that in one of these cases, an innocent parent is cool-headed enough, is calm enough, is more concerned with their legal status and freedom than their child AND is intelligent enough to understand the implications of such tests? Sure. It's possible. But it goes back to probability.

And in this specific case, I think it would be faaaar too many coincidences to have MG be the last person to see his baby alive, have her disappear the first time he has her alone, overnight, that we know of, in the few hours between the time the mother is moving in and hasn't yet done so, have him accidentally forget what he did for an hour, or have done something other than murder or dispose of his baby, something so terrible during that hour, that he'd rather keep back vital information that could be used to find his child, than to reveal what it was that he did, which is not as bad as murder or body disposal, and have zero evidence of a break-in, in a tiny trailer that you need a screwdriver to access, and he smoked so much wax that particular night, that he didn't hear anyone break in, and his usually insomniac baby who he claims cries when picked up by strangers, and who is on
medication that makes her restless, somehow this night slept through her own abduction making no noise, oh and dad talked to LE for 8 hours, admitted to things that could cause probation violations, and remembered being gone 8 minutes up the road before doing a u-turn, but when confronted with the truth about the timing, this guy, who all these remarkable things happened to, suddenly became totally savvy about the law, cool-headed and rational, innocently more
concerned with his own behind over his missing, vulnerable infant child and has the knowledge and intelligence necessary to understanding the implications of a lie detector test?

All that? All those coincidences?

IMO, no.

 

[courtneyb]

SBM

With all due respect, I would like to offer my opinion. I certainly appreciate your expertise, but I think you tend to view things from the legal angle rather than the opinion of those with absolutely NO legal knowledge whatsoever.

I can't say what I would do in the case of a missing child and I hope I never have the opportunity to find out. But I think one of the first things I would do would be to call a lawyer, (after notifying LE of course), if for no other reason than to speak for me and my family. I would NEVER, under any circumstance, submit to a lie detector, voice stress or any other inadmissible test for the very fact that if they are asking, they suspect something.

In other situations, yes, I wholeheartedly agree. But I'm pretty sure that if my child was missing and I knew I did nothing wrong, as far as her disappearance -even if I was hiding some unrelated illegal activity, I'd submit to whatever they wanted me to, in order to rule me out so they could focus their attention on finding my child. Charge me with marijuana possession, distribution, whatever the case may be but FIND MY BABY.

There would be a level of desperation there like no other to get my baby back safe. Even if my illegal activities would initially put the focus on me, no, ESPECIALLY if my illegal activities would initially put the focus on me, I'd want to be cleared in her disappearance poste haste. I'd sleep at the police station begging them to finish whatever they needed to do to get started looking in the right direction. He is acting shady, so whether he is guilty ir not, LE is treating him like he has a reason to be acting shady. If he really did nothing to Ember, his actions are muddying the water because of his selfish self protection. Not getting in trouble while on probation is NOT more important than finding his daughter.

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[gitana1]

Since CA has a terrible drought, would this huge creek/river in Ono, CA, be all dried-up now?View attachment 77965

Maybe I'm confused but didn't they show it full on video of a search?

 

[2Hope4]

No idea how much water or what container was used. Living on a farm with many animals, I can say that hauling water is a pain but not difficult or impossible. Most find a system that works for them. I can't lift the 5 gallons for our water system but I can carry 5 gallons in a bucket. If the water wasn't for drinking he may have used a garden hose to fill up a container sitting in the back of the truck. We don't know.

 

[byo]

Here's a map with some of the locations: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zW6CBVbxpdYA.kxJT80ePstyA&usp=sharing

 

[rosie_lee]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224501
BREAKING NEWS!!! Current Scanner Alerts #7

New information!!!!!

 

[gitana1]

In other situations, yes, I wholeheartedly agree. But I'm pretty sure that if my child was missing and I knew I did nothing wrong, as far as her disappearance -even if I was hiding some unrelated illegal activity, I'd submit to whatever they wanted me to, in order to rule me out so they could focus their attention on finding my child. Charge me with marijuana possession, distribution, whatever the case may be but FIND MY BABY.

There would be a level of desperation there like no other to get my baby back safe. Even if my illegal activities would initially put the focus on me, no, ESPECIALLY if my illegal activities would initially put the focus on me, I'd want to be cleared in her disappearance poste haste. I'd sleep at the police station begging them to finish whatever they needed to do to get started looking in the right direction. He is acting shady, so whether he is guilty ir not, LE is treating him like he has a reason to be acting shady. If he really did nothing to Ember, his actions are muddying the water because of his selfish self protection. Not getting in trouble while on probation is NOT more important than finding his daughter.

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And you're not alone. A criminal profiler who analyzed the Caylee Anthony case said this:
"I have volunteered to help parents of murdered children, and I can say unequivocally that every parent I have ever worked with cooperated fully with police," Dr. Schurman-Kauflin said. "There were no lies to authorities. Innocent parents are desperate to find a missing child. They make themselves sick with worry. " https://prezi.com/zl-pl23sp-tt/casey-anthoney-sociopath/

Oh and let's not forget that this sophisticated, cool-headed father who was stupid enough to reveal various things that caused suspicion but suddenly became super informed and intelligent about the implications of taking a lie detector test or continuing to talk with LE without representation, that same man referred to his baby as "it".

 

[sunflowerchick]

Gitana1 and CourtneyB, I actually agree with both of you. I believe MG is guilty of the disappearance of his daughter, if not more. I believe he is acting shady. You are right, the circumstances do not add up and he should be willing to do whatever it takes to find his child. I just wanted to point out a couple of things.

1. There are exceptions to every rule.
2. It isn't one thing or another in this case that makes us all think he's guilty of something. It isn't the fact that he wouldn't take the lie detector test, or the fact that he lives in filth, or the fact that he does drugs. It's the totality of the situation, it's everything from the story he gave to his behavior so far.

 

[courtneyb]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224501
BREAKING NEWS!!! Current Scanner Alerts #7

New information!!!!!

Oh, that's not going to help his quest to prove his innocence. [emoji15]

That's insane!

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[courtneyb]

Gitana1 and CourtneyB, I actually agree with both of you. I believe MG is guilty of the disappearance of his daughter, if not more. I believe he is acting shady. You are right, the circumstances do not add up and he should be willing to do whatever it takes to find his child. I just wanted to point out a couple of things.

1. There are exceptions to every rule.
2. It isn't one thing or another in this case that makes us all think he's guilty of something. It isn't the fact that he wouldn't take the lie detector test, or the fact that he lives in filth, or the fact that he does drugs. It's the totality of the situation, it's everything from the story he gave to his behavior so far.

There are, you are right. I'm usually the person trying not to rush to judge. But in thinking about it last night, I just couldn't reconcile his clamming up with him being innocent in her disappearance. I hope I'm wrong, and that he is just an idiot, and that Ember is alive and bring cared for.

In any case, this man is ill equipped to be a parent. In every way I can think of.

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