GUILTY CA - Erin Corwin, 19, pregnant, Twentynine Palms, 28 June 2014 - #10

[Twistinginthewind]

OK. Generally speaking, you can't really find out you're pregnant until you miss your period. (yeah, there are a few EPTs that tell you before that, but unless you're actively trying, who wastes their money on those?)

Assuming a person has a swiss watch perfect 28 day cycle and a pregnancy is measured from the first day of the last menstrual cycle, the earliest the average person would find out they were pregnant is at exactly 4 weeks gestational age.

Father's day was on 6.15.2014 this year. Erin disappeared on 6.28.2014. Reports have said she confirmed she was pregnant on Father's Day. Doing the math, the MINIMUM amount of time she could have been pregnant, assuming the above criteria are true is 5 weeks and 6 days.

That's the cold hard math. So 3 weeks is out. Even with the 5 days before your missed period test, she would still be 5 weeks and 1 day.

Now, as I recall, the reports say that Father's Day is when the pregnancy was "confirmed" which is an interesting turn of phrase. That implies that it was suspected BEFORE that date.

Now, I realize that some people know they're pregnant before they miss their period. I've known people were pregnant before the pregnant person has known. (Really, of all the superpowers I could have, I got pregnancy detection, being able to guess lottery numbers would be WAY more useful.) But assuming that EC was not using an EPT every month before she was even late and assuming she was 28 days swiss watch, she had to have been at least 6 weeks along when she vanished.

As far as "3 weeks is out" goes, it could easily have been that is what JC thought, and originally told LE when she went missing, that she was 2-3 weeks pregnant (and has been in so many MSM articles from the beginning) -- because she had taken a home pregnancy test and told him on Father's Day she was pregnant (on May 15th) -- then about 2 weeks later (on the 28th) she went missing, so he thought she was 2-3 weeks along at the time (2 weeks since positive test/she told him). She could have been farther along, and just not realized or revealed to JC, especially if she wasn't sure whether JC was the father and what she was going to do about that uncertainty.

As far as how soon the medical/ob/gyn staff at the marine base would see her, 2-3 months is probably a minimum, but if she had had a miscarriage a few months before, maybe they were willing to see her sooner than most, which is maybe why she had already made an appointment for the week after she went missing (I think I recall from MSM articles or her family/sister-in-law? early on) to be seen and officially "confirm" the pregnancy/have her first prenatal checkup, which never happened.

MOO that she was in the early stages of pregnancy and told her friend in TN at least, and her husband, and apparently CL because it was possibly his. How far along she was and whether the autopsy can confirm her pregnancy (and/or get DNA to show who the father was) is probably something LE is working on and most likely they won't share any such info with the public for awhile, if at all (until trial).

 

[Meemaw12]

Under Federal Law, yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

Under California law, no. http://www.nrlc.org/federal/unbornvictims/statehomicidelaws092302/

California: California Penal Code § 187(a) says, “Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought.” The words “or a fetus” were added by the legislature in 1970. The California Supreme Court later interpreted “fetus” to apply “beyond the embryonic stage of seven to eight weeks.” (People v. Davis, 1994) In addition, Penal Code § 190.2(3) makes a defendant eligible for capital punishment if convicted of more than one murder, and the California Supreme Court ruled that fetal homicide is included under this provision as well (People v. Dennis, 1998).

So this little baby won't have justice on this earth, sad.

 

[necco]

As far as "3 weeks is out" goes, it could easily have been that is what JC thought, and originally told LE when she went missing, that she was 2-3 weeks pregnant (and has been in so many MSM articles from the beginning) -- because she had taken a home pregnancy test and told him on Father's Day she was pregnant (on May 15th) -- then about 2 weeks later (on the 28th) she went missing, so he thought she was 2-3 weeks along at the time (2 weeks since positive test/she told him). She could have been farther along, and just not realized or revealed to JC, especially if she wasn't sure whether JC was the father and what she was going to do about that uncertainty.

As far as how soon the medical/ob/gyn staff at the marine base would see her, 2-3 months is probably a minimum, but if she had had a miscarriage a few months before, maybe they were willing to see her sooner than most, which is maybe why she had already made an appointment for the week after she went missing (I think I recall from MSM articles or her family/sister-in-law? early on) to be seen and officially "confirm" the pregnancy/have her first prenatal checkup, which never happened.

MOO that she was in the early stages of pregnancy and told her friend in TN at least, and her husband, and apparently CL because it was possibly his. How far along she was and whether the autopsy can confirm her pregnancy (and/or get DNA to show who the father was) is probably something LE is working on and most likely they won't share any such info with the public for awhile, if at all (until trial).

Oh, JC could very well have thought that. Or he could have been doing math based on the activities that lead to pregnancy. I'm not saying that it wasn't reported that way, I'm just doing the math so that we could address the issue in discussions of looking for evidence she was pregnant and possible subsequent charges. A good chunk of men (and some women) don't realize that pregnancy is measured from the first day of your last period so that a pregnant woman, is, according to medical science, pregnant before she has sex. It's sort of a stupid quirk of medical assessment.

 

[atthelake]

Oh, JC could very well have thought that. Or he could have been doing math based on the activities that lead to pregnancy. I'm not saying that it wasn't reported that way, I'm just doing the math so that we could address the issue in discussions of looking for evidence she was pregnant and possible subsequent charges. A good chunk of men (and some women) don't realize that pregnancy is measured from the first day of your last period so that a pregnant woman, is, according to medical science, pregnant before she has sex. It's sort of a stupid quirk of medical assessment.

:gaah:

I know nuthin' 'bout birthin' babies !

:biggrin: thanks !

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Seajay]

If she told him on FD she was pregnant, and she disappeared 2 weeks later, then she would have had to have gotten pregnant on FD and wouldn't know yet that she was pregnant, so we have to back that timeline up to include the time for her to have had sex, then be pregnant enough for it to show up on a EPT stick. So we are looking at at least 4 weeks if not more. She had to be more than a week pregnant when she found out she was pregnant.

And it does seem like everyone in the world knew she was pregnant but her mother. Her friends at the horse ranch knew, CL knew, JC knew, NL probably knew.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Oh, JC could very well have thought that. Or he could have been doing math based on the activities that lead to pregnancy. I'm not saying that it wasn't reported that way, I'm just doing the math so that we could address the issue in discussions of looking for evidence she was pregnant and possible subsequent charges. A good chunk of men (and some women) don't realize that pregnancy is measured from the first day of your last period so that a pregnant woman, is, according to medical science, pregnant before she has sex. It's sort of a stupid quirk of medical assessment.

Yes, I meant to acknowledge that, thanks, and forgot before I replied -- the medical folks calculate the weeks of pregnancy from the first day of the last know menstrual period, so in their parlance, she would have been up to (and if not more than) 6+ weeks along, but the more common estimation I think JC reported to LE would be to count from the first day of the missed period -- 2+ weeks along. Forensically/legally if using the 6+ weeks along medical terminology helps bump up the veracity of additional fetal homicide charges, more power to them.

 

[Meemaw12]

If she told him on FD she was pregnant, and she disappeared 2 weeks later, then she would have had to have gotten pregnant on FD and wouldn't know yet that she was pregnant, so we have to back that timeline up to include the time for her to have had sex, then be pregnant enough for it to show up on a EPT stick. So we are looking at at least 4 weeks if not more. She had to be more than a week pregnant when she found out she was pregnant.

And it does seem like everyone in the world knew she was pregnant but her mother. Her friends at the horse ranch knew, CL knew, JC knew, NL probably knew.

I read somewhere, that JC had told his family, EC was waiting for her mother to come out to tell her.

 

[necco]

Yes, I meant to acknowledge that, thanks, and forgot before I replied -- the medical folks calculate the weeks of pregnancy from the first day of the last know menstrual period, so in their parlance, she would have been up to (and if not more than) 6+ weeks along, but the more common estimation I think JC reported to LE would be to count from the first day of the missed period -- 2+ weeks along. Forensically/legally if using the 6+ weeks along medical terminology helps bump up the veracity of additional fetal homicide charges, more power to them.

I know more than one person who had to do some serious explaining to people who didn't realize how the medical community calculates pregnancy after they got pregnant on their honeymoon. If you ever want to see how fast people can count backwards in their head, watch someone tell people they got pregnant on their honeymoon. (And yes, I know a startling number of people who did.)

 

[m_brown]

I am learning so much here, lol!

PS. If anything ever happens to me, I want the members of this thread on the case!

 

[Twistinginthewind]

If she told him on FD she was pregnant, and she disappeared 2 weeks later, then she would have had to have gotten pregnant on FD and wouldn't know yet that she was pregnant, so we have to back that timeline up to include the time for her to have had sex, then be pregnant enough for it to show up on a EPT stick. So we are looking at at least 4 weeks if not more. She had to be more than a week pregnant when she found out she was pregnant.

And it does seem like everyone in the world knew she was pregnant but her mother. Her friends at the horse ranch knew, CL knew, JC knew, NL probably knew.

Good point about who knew -- everyone close to her it seems, except her mother & her immediate family. I'm guessing she was unsure of sharing the news with her mom until she saw her in person (planned the next week after she disappeared) and had sussed out whether if it was CL's, he was going to stand by her and 'do the right thing', in which case she would be telling her mom instead of "guess what, I'm pregnant again and Jon & are so excited", it was possibly going to be an in-person heart-to-heart with her mom where she admitted to the affair with CL, that she and Jon's marriage wasn't working out, and that she was in love with CL and they were going to be together (his wife was leaving to go back to AK, he was moving offbase/being discharged, and they were going to make a life together)... and CL probably knew her mom was coming and she was excited about "celebrating" her pregnancy with him and then telling her mom when she came in a few days, which was one more factor that precipitated CL acting to plan her murder at the time that he did. Just MOO as always...

 

[Meemaw12]

Sorry, I am confused again.

In CA how far along would a mommy have to be for the baby to be considered viable according to CA law? like months I don't understood weeks.

Ex. I believe EC got preg. in April so my thinking when she was murdered she was around 2 1/2 months +. Am I making sense?
.

 

[necco]

It may have been hard to hide she was pregnant from people who physically see her. When someone suddenly stops having a beer with dinner (I know she's underage, but you know what I mean) or suddenly goes from eating like a bird or grazing to OMG I WANT A CUPCAKE NOW, it can be very obvious. Also, there's always morning sickness and avoiding certain OTC drugs and activities.

I do think she wanted to tell her mom face to face, whether because she needed a bonding talk or because she just wanted to tell her in person, that I don't know.

 

[Dmacky]

MB said it was a red sedan. He also later said it was not an SUV type of vehicle. It was like a Kia or something maybe. I'll have to go look again for his statements.

JMO ~ But that small red sedan will be part of this equation, as I think it played a MAJOR role in this case SOMEHOW. That and the texts from Tn. are what led LE to Chris so quickly.

CL might could/might have went to a dealership to test drive a car, went and picked up Erin where they were supposed to meet. So close to base, (didn't want to be seen in his own jeep) Then drove back , got his jeep and went ahead with his plan for that day. That is just a possibility, obviously I have no idea about why the "red car" picked her up.

But there is no way, especially a 42 yr.old man, is going to mistake a 1997 jeep for a new, CLEAN red small sedan. I wrote about this in an old post, before CL was arrested. I am going to find my original post.
MOO~

 

[necco]

Sorry, I am confused again.

In CA how far along would a mommy have to be for the baby to be considered viable according to CA law? like months I don't understood weeks.

Ex. I believe EC got preg. in April so my thinking when she was murdered she was around 2 1/2 months +. Am I making sense?
.

7-8 weeks, when the embryo transitions to a fetus. So, just under 2 months. A month and 3/4s or so. Basically, the wiggly_bit_that_shall_be_baby (I am using this so as not to confuse the scientific and legal terms) transitions from an embryo to a fetus when all the major baby_bits have formed and the wiggly_bit_that_shall_be_baby just needs to fatten up and develop the baby_bits further. Unscientifically, the embryo becomes a fetus when it stops looking like a sea monkey and starts looking more like a gummy bear.

(I hope I am not intimidating you all with my mastery of technical language. )

 

[Seajay]

Good point about who knew -- everyone close to her it seems, except her mother & her immediate family. I'm guessing she was unsure of sharing the news with her mom until she saw her in person (planned the next week after she disappeared) and had sussed out whether if it was CL's, he was going to stand by her and 'do the right thing', in which case she would be telling her mom instead of "guess what, I'm pregnant again and Jon & are so excited", it was possibly going to be an in-person heart-to-heart with her mom where she admitted to the affair with CL, that she and Jon's marriage wasn't working out, and that she was in love with CL and they were going to be together (his wife was leaving to go back to AK, he was moving offbase/being discharged, and they were going to make a life together)... and CL probably knew her mom was coming and she was excited about "celebrating" her pregnancy with him and then telling her mom when she came in a few days, which was one more factor that precipitated CL acting to plan her murder at the time that he did. Just MOO as always...

You hit on it exactly the way I think it went down or was suppose to have gone down. I honestly think for her to be so happy she was pregnant to the point she went out on a special day together with CL, she had every reason to believe they had a future together. In which case. JC would have been on his way out.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

Is it possible that CL picked EC up in NL's vehicle (assuming the red vehicle is hers) and they switched to his jeep at JTSP? His jeep tracks could still be at the crime scene and where EC's vehicle were found if he went back and moved it 100 feet like MB stated.

 

[Meemaw12]

7-8 weeks, when the embryo transitions to a fetus. So, just under 2 months. A month and 3/4s or so. Basically, the wiggly_bit_that_shall_be_baby (I am using this so as not to confuse the scientific and legal terms) transitions from an embryo to a fetus when all the major baby_bits have formed and the wiggly_bit_that_shall_be_baby just needs to fatten up and develop the baby_bits further. Unscientifically, the embryo becomes a fetus when it stops looking like a sea monkey and starts looking more like a gummy bear.

(I hope I am not intimidating you all with my mastery of technical language. )

No not at all, I appreciate you explaining all of this to me, Back in my day, we got preg. carried a baby and delivered a beautiful lil one. Life was pretty simple back then. The day I stopped with morning sickness my babies moved which I think was about 3-4 mths. Dr said they all laid on a nerve. Also remember, the day I called for appt with OB he called in a script for vitamins which made me sicker. I had 4 babies in 5 1/2 yrs (no multiples)

At any rate, I hope LE can find the evidence to charge CL with murder of Erin's baby.

 

[Seajay]

7-8 weeks, when the embryo transitions to a fetus. So, just under 2 months. A month and 3/4s or so. Basically, the wiggly_bit_that_shall_be_baby (I am using this so as not to confuse the scientific and legal terms) transitions from an embryo to a fetus when all the major baby_bits have formed and the wiggly_bit_that_shall_be_baby just needs to fatten up and develop the baby_bits further. Unscientifically, the embryo becomes a fetus when it stops looking like a sea monkey and starts looking more like a gummy bear.

(I hope I am not intimidating you all with my mastery of technical language. )

LOL I love your way with words. You have me cracking up on this one.

 

[Dmacky]

My old posts brought over before CL was arrested

No disrespect, but I don't see it like that all. In my opinion, I'm thinking the "red car" may turn out to be the smoking gun in this whole case! I'm sure LE has quietly sought out every car rental place and dealership (test driving) in San Bernardino County.
Plus, if your driving someone that you indeed to "do away with" you certainly don't want to be seen driving your own car.

The two things that CL did NOT think about was

1. Someone driving down this desolate road at the very same time, and actually
seeing a girl get out of EC's car and get in to a red car, being driven by a man.

2. Erin exchanging text's with her friend in Tn. saying where she was going that Sat.
morning and who she was going with, and even why they were going.

I also think the arrest of CL on July 4th for the potato gun was a red herring. LE knew he was moving to Alaska soon, and wanted to get his fingerprints and DNA.

Personally, my guess is that LE knows exactly what they're doing, and are keeping all this as quiet as they can. Even going so far as to say EC may have left on her own. They don't want to scare CL into taking off and leaving the country. They want to make sure CL comes back to Calif. for his court date in Sept. But I'm willing to bet that they are keeping a real good eye on him.
Just my own speculation of course.

 

[RSC]

Spinning slightly off topic for a minute
I used to think it was a really stupid medical quirk to determine pregnancy that way, then I went through some infertility treatments and really understood how important the "first four weeks" is in a pregnancy (i.e. before, during and after ovulation, and during splitting of the fertilized egg prior to implantation). Now I totally see why they measure it like this. The cells are dividing immediately after fertilization, so the development of the fetus really can be measured from that point forward, assuming implantation is successful.

Sorry, I digress.

Oh, JC could very well have thought that. Or he could have been doing math based on the activities that lead to pregnancy. I'm not saying that it wasn't reported that way, I'm just doing the math so that we could address the issue in discussions of looking for evidence she was pregnant and possible subsequent charges. A good chunk of men (and some women) don't realize that pregnancy is measured from the first day of your last period so that a pregnant woman, is, according to medical science, pregnant before she has sex. It's sort of a stupid quirk of medical assessment.