GUILTY CA - Erin Corwin, 19, pregnant, Twentynine Palms, 28 June 2014 - #10

[BRRI]

I think your math is wrong on that, a person can't get their period AND get pregnant at the same time. The uterus prepares for the egg and when it arrives it is either fertilized and there is no period, or it isn't and there is a period.

So 4 weeks after conception a woman isn't surprised that there's no period, since she already missed the first one 4 weeks earlier. Unless she mistakes implantation and/or breakthrough bleeding for a period, which is possible, though that bleeding is usually lighter.

The math is not wrong. You are 4 weeks when you find out you are pregnant. So, if she found out (positive test) on 6/15/14 and told JC on that same day (Father's Day), that would make her an additional 13 days pregnant at time of death. So, 5 weeks and 6 days pregnant, at minimum.

 

[Meemaw12]

By the way, just look at the confusion in this about length of pregnancies and date of last menstrual period vs date of conception. And we are probably a group of above average intelligence people, based on our interest in sleuthing and general curiosity. It is no wonder that the reports about how pregnant Erin was have been confusing and contradictory. Medical and legal pregnancy length is different from common understanding. It is logical to think you cannot get pregnant before you have sex, but according to medicine, you do.

Adding to the confusion is that conception doesn't necessarily happen the day a person has sex. Sperm can live in the female body for 3-5 days. The egg floats around in there for 1-2 days after ovulation. So you can get pregnant before you have sex, according to your doctor. And you can get pregnant from sex nearly a week before you ovulate. And people wonder why the get pregnant using the rhythm method!

http://americanpregnancy.org/gettingpregnant/ovulationfaq.htm

(O/T-I suspect this leads to a lot of the paternity cases on the Maury Povich show!)

It is very confusing but you explained it very well for this pea brain.

 

[necco]

Yes but that is only used as a stop gap. Once the ultrasound is performed and the baby's measurements are taken, then the fetal development is staged and a delivery date is estimated. The legal requirements are not going to be satisfied by a guess based on the last period, especially when it can't be known when that was, as the one person who could tell us is no longer with us. That's all I'm saying. MHO

I think if they can use it, they will. I totally understand what you're saying.
Given that she miscarried so recently, there is a record of her cycle with a doctor. Also, here's hoping there's a trail of when she bought a home test if she did and when she told her best friend she was pregnant. Bonus points if she saw a doctor.

They have a variety of options in this case, given that he was active duty at the time and that Erin was located on federal land. I think there are probably back room discussions about options and jurisdiction going on that we don't know about. I hope they use whatever laws they can to nail him as badly as they can. As I mentioned earlier, if this goes federal, length of pregnancy will be irrelevant as long as they can prove she was pregnant, it counts.

Please understand, I am not being argumentative, I just see it differently than you do. I hope you see this as a healthy debate of the issue, as that is all that is intended.

 

[Jambri]

It's sad but women do this kind of thing all the time. Men do as well. Men cheat on their wives even when the wife has been loving and supportive and taken up with another woman and left his wife cold.

She was pregnant, she text her TN friend and told her it was CL's baby. She had told CL she was pregnant, she had also told JC she was pregnant. Why did she tell JC she was pregnant after he forgave her for her affair with CL, knowing she thought the baby was CL's to the point she told her friend and apparently CL? What reason would CL have had to kill her if he didn't think it was his baby?

I thought she texted her friend saying it MIGHT be his baby. And she could have told JC she was pregnant because she wanted to believe or wanted him to believe it was his. I don't believe she told JC it was CL's baby. I also thought she had an apt the next day to determine who the father was?

Yes, I know both men and women do this sort of thing all the time. But with so many people saying Erin wasn't that kind of person, and that she was sweet, innocent and deeply in love with John, it's just hard to believe (and really sad) [modsnip]

 

[Meemaw12]

Another question

SB is investigating and charging. What if the Mine is located in Riverside CO (I don't know if it is) will that make a difference?

ETA: I use to know these things, brain doesn't work like it use to.

 

[BRRI]

Yes but that is only used as a stop gap. Once the ultrasound is performed and the baby's measurements are taken, then the fetal development is staged and a delivery date is estimated. The legal requirements are not going to be satisfied by a guess based on the last period, especially when it can't be known when that was, as the one person who could tell us is no longer with us. That's all I'm saying. MHO

Ultrasounds, especially the first one, have a 1.2 week margin of error, so I would think in this early of a pregnancy, they would use the standard calculation and not rely on the ultrasound for an exact length of pregnancy if someone's on the line for a second murder charge. The ultrasound may help further provide evidence of the length of pregnancy, but it can't see how they can rely on that with the 1.2 margin of error.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I have complete faith in LE, they will pursue this case in the best way possible. I support them no matter how they charge, who they charge (as I hear they are investigating NL right now)

I pray for comfort for the family of Erin, I also hope CL confesses and this doesn't go to trial. Erin's family has been through enough.

IMO...

Thanks, Meemaw. Couldn't have been stated more eloquently. I hope just as LE found Erin in short order (relatively speaking), they can get a confession instead of having to go to trial (although it seems like they are seriously on top of what they needed to do to have their ducks in a row to bring down a conviction through clean evidenciary and procedural data gathering).

 

[BRRI]

I thought she texted her friend saying it MIGHT be his baby. And she could have told JC she was pregnant because she wanted to believe or wanted him to believe it was his. I don't believe she told JC it was CL's baby. I also thought she had an apt the next day to determine who the father was?

Yes, I know both men and women do this sort of thing all the time. But with so many people saying Erin wasn't that kind of person, and that she was sweet, innocent and deeply in love with John, it's just hard to believe (and really sad) to think she could have stooped so low...

I also thought the text said it MIGHT be CLs baby. Nothing definite.

 

[smc1225]

Has someone figured out how far it is from where EC's car was parked to the mine site? Is it possible that CL picked up EC at 7 am in the JEEP, met NL (who was in the red car), took her to EC's car to gather stuff at 10:30, and what MB saw was NL getting back into the red car after gathering things??

It is about 1 hour and 38 minutes from Ranch Rd/Valley Vista where EC's car was found to the coordinates given for the mine location.

 

[Seajay]

I have complete faith in LE, they will pursue this case in the best way possible. I support them no matter how they charge, who they charge (as I hear they are investigating NL right now)

I pray for comfort for the family of Erin, I also hope CL confesses and this doesn't go to trial. Erin's family has been through enough.

IMO...

Actually, I do too. They've done a great job so far. I have no reason to doubt they won't continue to do that. And it is what it is. It will end up the way it's meant to be. They are armed with a lot of information that places him at the scene.

And if NL was involved in any part of that, they'll figure that out as well, especially if she had anything to do with a red sedan on that morning.

 

[necco]

Wow I hope this was not the case. I am trying as hard as I can not to have a bad taste in my mouth regarding Erin but this would really be a vile way to act. For one, she made a vow and broke it, that was bad enough, but John forgave her for her indiscretion and then she took it underground (which led to her murder that day) ...for her to conspire to leave JC if CL was the father would be a despicable thing to do. From all indications, JC was a saint. There are no circumstances anywhere that I have read where he wasn't a loving and supporting husband. Not to mention CL has his own family, with his own daughter. Would it be "doing the right thing" for their child? To break up one family for the sake of Erins' happiness? Let's not forget that although they were technically married for about 1.5 years they were essentially only living together as man and wife for 3 months before Erin cheated. How do you go from loving someone as much as she supposedly loved John to wanting out so bad if nothing major occurred on Johns' part? If she truly had no feelings for John for whatever reason, she should have done the right thing and moved back home and filed for divorce.

I have always hoped that this entire situation was a text from CL basically saying that "Hey. I'm going to be leaving soon, and although I know that you and John are working on your marriage and we are supposed to be cooling it, let me take you on one last special day to celebrate your pregnancy as friends before I go". maybe I am trying to convince myself this is true or maybe I'm just in denial...It's just really sad to think she could have treated John this way...

Please remember, affairs aren't always about sex. They are often about not feeling alone or in pain. Erin lost a child six months before her death. Yes, some will say she just miscarried, but if the pregnancy was wanted and loved, it can be just as hard on a woman, sometimes even harder for a few reasons.

In my experience dealing with people miscarrying, it can be very hard on the mother. People don't allow you to mourn a lost internal baby the way they allow you to mourn a lost external baby. They think they are being helpful when they say things like "It's for the best." "At least you miscarried before you got really attached." or "You can just get pregnant again." Seriously. People say these things. Would you say that to someone who lost a 3 month old external child? Also, there is often a feeling of guilt associated with miscarriages. The mother may wonder what they may have done wrong or why their body did this. Fathers in miscarriages often have a different perspective which can cause tension. The guys are glad that their wife is ok, particularly if it was a more dramatic miscarriage. Men tend to worry about their wife/partner because that's what they see and that's who they love. The mother doesn't have another loved one endangered by the medical event of a miscarriage, they just have the baby.

This is NOT a condemnation of fathers/men/partners/friends in miscarriage situations. Their response is understandable. They love TWO people involved in the miscarriage and one of them is safe. They don't usually have the same guilt because it wasn't their body that "betrayed" the baby. Friends of the couple may also tend to act more like the husband/partner for the same reasons, their friend, the woman who lost the pregnancy, is ok. She can have another child. And the child is more of an idea to people besides the mother than it is to the mother who is literally connected to the baby who is lost. All of this can make a woman who miscarries feel very alone, because she is. No one else has the same connection to the lost child.

 

[m_brown]

the mine she was found in is located in Riverside CO.

Another question

SB is investigating and charging. What if the Mine is located in Riverside CO (I don't know if it is) will that make a difference?

ETA: I use to know these things, brain doesn't work like it use to.

 

[Seajay]

I thought she texted her friend saying it MIGHT be his baby. And she could have told JC she was pregnant because she wanted to believe or wanted him to believe it was his. I don't believe she told JC it was CL's baby. I also thought she had an apt the next day to determine who the father was?

Yes, I know both men and women do this sort of thing all the time. But with so many people saying Erin wasn't that kind of person, and that she was sweet, innocent and deeply in love with John, it's just hard to believe (and really sad) to think she could have stooped so low...

We may never know one way or the other. According to everything I read, she told her friend the baby was CL's. I could be wrong, that's what I get for picking up and filling my head with facts from other cases. But right now, that's what I remember.

I don't know what she was doing. I've thought about this over and over again and I don't know what she was doing or planning. All we have is the facts as have been presented to us via MSM and SBC. Certain actions lead us to think it went down this way or that one. But we don't know. That's what we are trying to figure out.

But what it comes down to is if she wasn't pregnant with CL's kid, and she hadn't told CL that she was, why is she dead? Why did he kill her? Married men are known to kill their pregnant lovers when they hear that kind of news. It's not uncommon at all. But if that isn't why he killed her, then what is??? It all goes back to that. Motive.

 

[Jambri]

Please remember, affairs aren't always about sex. They are often about not feeling alone or in pain. Erin lost a child six months before her death. Yes, some will say she just miscarried, but if the pregnancy was wanted and loved, it can be just as hard on a woman, sometimes even harder for a few reasons.

In my experience dealing with people miscarrying, it can be very hard on the mother. People don't allow you to mourn a lost internal baby the way they allow you to mourn a lost external baby. They think they are being helpful when they say things like "It's for the best." "At least you miscarried before you got really attached." or "You can just get pregnant again." Seriously. People say these things. Would you say that to someone who lost a 3 month old external child? Also, there is often a feeling of guilt associated with miscarriages. The mother may wonder what they may have done wrong or why their body did this. Fathers in miscarriages often have a different perspective which can cause tension. The guys are glad that their wife is ok, particularly if it was a more dramatic miscarriage. Men tend to worry about their wife/partner because that's what they see and that's who they love. The mother doesn't have another loved one endangered by the medical event of a miscarriage, they just have the baby.

This is NOT a condemnation of fathers/men/partners/friends in miscarriage situations. Their response is understandable. They love TWO people involved in the miscarriage and one of them is safe. They don't usually have the same guilt because it wasn't their body that "betrayed" the baby. Friends of the couple may also tend to act more like the husband/partner for the same reasons, their friend, the woman who lost the pregnancy, is ok. She can have another child. And the child is more of an idea to people besides the mother than it is to the mother who is literally connected to the baby who is lost. All of this can make a woman who miscarries feel very alone, because she is. No one else has the same connection to the lost child.

Thanks for the explanation necco. Makes sense. I had another related question but I do not wish to aggravate (as it appears I am doing to some) so I will end it at that

 

[Seajay]

Please remember, affairs aren't always about sex. They are often about not feeling alone or in pain. Erin lost a child six months before her death. Yes, some will say she just miscarried, but if the pregnancy was wanted and loved, it can be just as hard on a woman, sometimes even harder for a few reasons.

In many cases it isn't about sex at all but an emotional connection to the third person, maybe in a way the spouse isn't providing for them. As you stated, men and women view the loss of an internal baby differently. If she felt that JC didn't understand, wasn't supporting her in a way she needed, then if she found that in CL, that could be the reason for the affair for her. Or if CL was in some way able to take her mind off the miscarriage and make her feel better about herself then I could see her gravitating towards that. IMO.

 

[Jambri]

We may never know one way or the other. According to everything I read, she told her friend the baby was CL's. I could be wrong, that's what I get for picking up and filling my head with facts from other cases. But right now, that's what I remember.

I don't know what she was doing. I've thought about this over and over again and I don't know what she was doing or planning. All we have is the facts as have been presented to us via MSM and SBC. Certain actions lead us to think it went down this way or that one. But we don't know. That's what we are trying to figure out.

But what it comes down to is if she wasn't pregnant with CL's kid, and she hadn't told CL that she was, why is she dead? Why did he kill her? Married men are known to kill their pregnant lovers when they hear that kind of news. It's not uncommon at all. But if that isn't why he killed her, then what is??? It all goes back to that. Motive.

Good points seajay. What's confusing to me though is I think it was CL that set up this "special day" for her, not the other way around. If he never contacted her for that "supposed" purpose who knows if they would have even met before he left for Alaska. Also EC texted her friend that "He is afraid that if his wife finds out I am pregnant she will divorce him and keep him from seeing his child". That tells me that his sole intent was not to leave her or his child and EC knew that. I don't know...I just refuse to believe she was planning to leave John....

 

[Jambri]

In many cases it isn't about sex at all but an emotional connection to the third person, maybe in a way the spouse isn't providing for them. As you stated, men and women view the loss of an internal baby differently. If she felt that JC didn't understand, wasn't supporting her in a way she needed, then if she found that in CL, that could be the reason for the affair for her. Or if CL was in some way able to take her mind off the miscarriage and make her feel better about herself in some way, they I could see her gravitating towards that. IMO.

Great points seajay

 

[Seajay]

Good points seajay. What's confusing to me though is I think it was CL that set up this "special day" for her, not the other way around. If he never contacted her for that "supposed" purpose who knows if they would have even met before he left for Alaska. Also EC texted her friend that "He is afraid that if his wife finds out I am pregnant she will divorce him and keep him from seeing his child". That tells me that his sole intent was not to leave her or his child and EC knew that. I don't know...I just refuse to believe she was planning to leave John....

Good point, she did text her friend that he was afraid his wife would find out about the affair and keep him from his daughter.

And the "special day together" to celebrate the pregnancy thing has always confused me. Because if she knew he was worried about his wife finding out about this, and if she had no plans on leaving Jon, and if there was no talk of any kind of future together, why would she think that CL would want to celebrate her pregnancy with her? And why would it be considered a "special day?" Unless he portrayed to her that he was thrilled with the idea she was pregnant and the baby might be his, why would she even think he'd want to celebrate with her? Just confusing.

He had to have thought there was a good chance the baby was his or she wouldn't be dead now. And somehow that was a threat to him, to something he didn't want to lose which was why he resorted to murder. Was it has daughter? His marriage? But if it was his marriage, then why did he risk losing it by having an affair? See, my mind goes in circles and it makes me dizzy. :scared:

 

[scorekeeper]

It is about 1 hour and 38 minutes from Ranch Rd/Valley Vista where EC's car was found to the coordinates given for the mine location.

Am I remembering correctly... that Erin told her friend "they were going 2 hours away"??

 

[Hippiemomof5]

His marriage? But if it was his marriage, then why did he risk losing it by having an affair?

Snipped by me.

This is a good point. And what kind of woman wants to stay with a man who would kill for her?